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Without a new production focused facility , DI will be stretched thin just to keep their present commitment to our armed forces . Add that with the possibility of KFX continuation ,Elang hitam and 219 ....

I don't know when to expect for their backlog to be cleared .
Well, it could be ToT for thales Spectra, or SCALP missile, or Talios Pod, ANYTHING...

If DI can't handle it, how about LEN ?

(Biar mulus borong langsung banyak gitu 48 atau lebih, just like the old news of Prabowo's visit to france)
 
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Every option for fighter procurement are still open, even flankers, personaly i will take rafale rather than 35 and trance 1 and adding some f.16 for kfx stop gap for the air force
 
Every option for fighter procurement are still open, even flankers, personaly i will take rafale rather than 35 and trance 1 and adding some f.16 for kfx stop gap for the air force

Yup , all still in the table .... While i guess the SU 35 card were allready put in the box . But , it still on the table after all .. 😀
Even the KFX verdict are still in the table ...

But my bet is we still going to proceed with the KFX . Take some F 16 ( whatever available ) with a full packages and collect those secondhanded typhoon for almost free

It's just a guess not a bocoran ... and i still could be lose in this bet tho'
 
Yup , all still in the table .... While i guess the SU 35 card were allready put in the box . But , it still on the table after all .. 😀
Even the KFX verdict are still in the table ...

But my bet is we still going to proceed with the KFX . Take some F 16 ( whatever available ) with a full packages and collect those secondhanded typhoon for almost free

It's just a guess not a bocoran ... and i still could be lose in this bet tho'
Trance 1 itu penawaran nya bundle dgn penawaran airbus lainya dgn iming iming upgrade teknologi ke kinian , dan juga masukan dr "konsultan jerman" sangat di jadikan pertimabangan. Karena masukan terdahulu ttg pembelian leo lgs ke jerman saat kita galau setelah permintaan kita di tolak belanda terbukti ces pleng good deal...nah semoga ajah kali ini juga benar walau banyak kalangan meragukan, juga termasuk saya heheheh..
 
Erick Thohir Jajaki Kerja Sama Pertahanan dengan Inggris



Hawk TNI AU [TNI AU]

M
enteri BUMN Erick Thohir menjajaki kerja sama industri pertahanan dengan Inggris. Ia menyatakan penjajakan dilakukan saat kunjungan kerja bersama Menteri Luar Negeri Retno Marsudi ke Inggris beberapa waktu lalu.

Sayang, Erick tak menjelaskan lebih lanjut soal hasil penjajakan kerja sama tersebut.

"Industri pertahanan yang selama ini (Inggris) menjadi partner terbaik. Kami kemukakan dan ingin jajaki," katanya pada press briefing secara virtual pada Rabu (14/10) malam.

Selain sektor pertahanan, Erick juga menyebut ia juga menjajaki kerja sama dalam mengembangkan energi terbarukan (renewable energy) bersama Inggris.

Penembakan rudal Starstreak di dermaga Polejiwa, Sulsel [Yonarhanud 6]

Kerja sama lainnya, pendidikan, terutama di bidang hospitality pariwisata. Dia berharap penjajakan dan kerja sama bisa meningkatkan kualitas layanan di industri itu.

Erick mengatakan penjajakan diilakukan karena belakangan ini kebutuhan untuk pariwisata seperti Mandalika, Lombok, yang merupakan kawasan ekonomi khusus (KEK), meningkat.

Selain bidang itu, Erick juga mengatakan tengah menjajaki kerja sama dalam bidang kesehatan. Erick ingin dengan kerja sama itu nantinya Indonesia bisa memiliki fasilitas kesehatan yang tak kalah dengan negara Jiran seperti Singapura.

"Karena ini ingin memastikan kesempatan Indonesia menjadi pemain kelas regional kelas kesehatan, masyarakat Indonesia banyak ke Singapura, sekarang juga ada fasilitas yang terpercaya di Indonesia," katanya.

CNN
 
Also there are no such thing as a "freebie F-16s". It's either in use in the USAF or those ones lying on AMARG or so worn off which is the reason it went there in the first place. 100 freebie F-16s lmao.

Not sure why you said this🤔. We got 28 F-16 block 25 + 2 F-16 block 15 for free in 2011. We only needed to pay for the refurbishment/upgrade cost, delivery, etc, but not for the aircraft itself.

You laughed at the idea of 100 freebies/EDA F-16? Well, let's see. The USAF still operate around 700-800 F-16 C/D with active forces and around 300-400 F-16C/D with Air National Guard. They want to replace most of them with F-35. So it's still possible.

Yup , all still in the table .... While i guess the SU 35 card were allready put in the box . But , it still on the table after all .. 😀
Even the KFX verdict are still in the table ...

But my bet is we still going to proceed with the KFX . Take some F 16 ( whatever available ) with a full packages and collect those secondhanded typhoon for almost free

It's just a guess not a bocoran ... and i still could be lose in this bet tho'

Speaking of SU-35, it'll be hilarious if the result of the talks is that the U.S. will give us a special waiver to proceed with our SU-35 deal with the Russians😁.
 
Trance 1 itu penawaran nya bundle dgn penawaran airbus lainya dgn iming iming upgrade teknologi ke kinian , dan juga masukan dr "konsultan jerman" sangat di jadikan pertimabangan. Karena masukan terdahulu ttg pembelian leo lgs ke jerman saat kita galau setelah permintaan kita di tolak belanda terbukti ces pleng good deal...nah semoga ajah kali ini juga benar walau banyak kalangan meragukan, juga termasuk saya heheheh..

I don't dare to dream anymore bro . I just don't dare 😂😂

Mostly because i haven't see their formal offer in written document as yet . And like mang ujang used to say to me ...

When thing was sound too good to be true it usually it is . And Korean mutant taught us a very hard lesson allready .
Just let it flow ... Let it flow ... Even the written contract could be nulled in our flowered beloved country . I'll take everything with a bucketload of salt .

Hura percoyo yen ra ono futune ... 😀😀
 
I'm not so sure anymore how much the Indonesians are engaged with the deals with Korea so I can't say for sure but if they are planning to cancel the deal for additional Korean submarines and quit KF-X they better commit into the deals with France in such occasion. Scorpene and Rafale are both superb weaponry although

That is one of the alternatives that have been considered and prepared . And it was the france side that offering us such deal along with their financing scheme option
 
personaly i will take rafale rather than 35 and trance 1 and adding some f.16 for kfx stop gap for the air force
Yeah! Im with you on this. Middle ground as of below heavy but abit above medium type with lots of carrying capacity. Tho the flight ceiling is relatively low and the engine power is somewhat mediocare in its class but hey even the used one doesnt need to be upgraded! :enjoy:
Trance 1 itu penawaran nya bundle dgn penawaran airbus lainya dgn iming iming upgrade teknologi ke kinian , dan juga masukan dr "konsultan jerman" sangat di jadikan pertimabangan. Karena masukan terdahulu ttg pembelian leo lgs ke jerman saat kita galau setelah permintaan kita di tolak belanda terbukti ces pleng good deal...nah semoga ajah kali ini juga benar walau banyak kalangan meragukan, juga termasuk saya heheheh..
konsultan Jerman yg mana nih? Waktu Leo itu sempet kisruh dan terindikasi markup yg tidak membumi kalo ga salah. Setelah di konfirmasi ke negaranya langsung ternyata harganya jauh lebih murah so "konsultannya" langsung masuk kotak. Kalo "konsultan" ini yg dimaksud mari kita sama-sama berdoa semoga kebagian persenan :lol:
Speaking of SU-35, it'll be hilarious if the result of the talks is that the U.S. will give us a special waiver to proceed with our SU-35 deal with the Russians😁.
Absolutely!! bisa geger dunia persilatan formil lokal :omghaha:
 
New Radar for Typhoon

(Summary)

BAE Systems and Leonardo have been awarded a contract to develop the Active Electronically Scanned Array (AESA), the European Common Radar System Mark 2(ECRS Mk2) radar, to a standard ready to be integrated on to RAF Typhoons.

The ECRS2 is a multi-functional array (MFA) that will give UK Typhoons a world-leading Electronic Warfare capability, in addition to traditional radar functions, including wide band Electronic Attack, the two companies said in a joint statement today.

It will equip RAF pilots with the ability to locate, identify and suppress enemy air defences using high-powered jamming. They can engage targets whilst beyond the reach of threats – even when they’re looking in another direction – and operate inside the range of opposing air defences, remaining fully protected throughout.

It also enables the Typhoons to link up with future data-driven weapons to combat rapidly evolving air defences, ensuring that UK Typhoons can continue to dominate the battlespace for years to come,

The new radar will be based on Active Electronically Scanned Array (AESA) technology and will provide game-changing capabilities based on a revolutionary MFA. It has significantly more Transmit-Receive Elements than other radars, making Mk2 the most capable fighter AESA radar in the world, maintaining the same power and precision of traditional radars but also enabling the simultaneous operation of its wide-band Electronic Warfare functionality. (Full story on the link above)


Radar and EW suite in the same unit? I wonder what kind of cooling system they going to use in this one...
Anyway it turns out Typhoon still have future upgrade to be expected :enjoy:
 
New Radar for Typhoon

(Summary)

BAE Systems and Leonardo have been awarded a contract to develop the Active Electronically Scanned Array (AESA), the European Common Radar System Mark 2(ECRS Mk2) radar, to a standard ready to be integrated on to RAF Typhoons.

The ECRS2 is a multi-functional array (MFA) that will give UK Typhoons a world-leading Electronic Warfare capability, in addition to traditional radar functions, including wide band Electronic Attack, the two companies said in a joint statement today.

It will equip RAF pilots with the ability to locate, identify and suppress enemy air defences using high-powered jamming. They can engage targets whilst beyond the reach of threats – even when they’re looking in another direction – and operate inside the range of opposing air defences, remaining fully protected throughout.

It also enables the Typhoons to link up with future data-driven weapons to combat rapidly evolving air defences, ensuring that UK Typhoons can continue to dominate the battlespace for years to come,

The new radar will be based on Active Electronically Scanned Array (AESA) technology and will provide game-changing capabilities based on a revolutionary MFA. It has significantly more Transmit-Receive Elements than other radars, making Mk2 the most capable fighter AESA radar in the world, maintaining the same power and precision of traditional radars but also enabling the simultaneous operation of its wide-band Electronic Warfare functionality. (Full story on the link above)


Radar and EW suite in the same unit? I wonder what kind of cooling system they going to use in this one...
Anyway it turns out Typhoon still have future upgrade to be expected :enjoy:
For which trance?
 
Had to rewrite the comment because I've prematurely submitted it by mistake.

If Rafale come out as the champion in the end, I hope they make HUGE commitment to it. Locally produce sparepart, Possibility to upgrade to F4 standards, etc..

I'm not so sure anymore how much the Indonesians are engaged with the deals with Korea so I can't say for sure but if they are planning to cancel the deal for additional Korean submarines and quit KF-X they better commit into the deals with France in such occasion. Scorpene and Rafale are both superb weaponry although a bit expensive. Full F4 standard is still a few years away and France is also planning to procure the so called F3.5 which has some features of F4 standard so Indonesia might get those F3.5 standard jets as well. Though imo it's better to wait for those few years and get F4 standard. France already have delayed the delivery of Rafales to FAF in order to deliver it to India and Egypt more quickly so they might do the same for Indonesia as well.

Well, it could be ToT for thales Spectra, or SCALP missile, or Talios Pod, ANYTHING...

If DI can't handle it, how about LEN ?

(Biar mulus borong langsung banyak gitu 48 atau lebih, just like the old news of Prabowo's visit to france)

Don't expect ToT of those kind of critical technology, especially from the French. They are even more notorious talking about ToT compared to for example, the US. In case of US its hard to get the approval of the congress but once you get that, they keep their promises. French are the ones who don't even keep those promises. Koreans learnt it the hard way.

SCALP could be a possibility considering how the Koreans got the critical tech of KEPD 350 Taurus missile but that was a very special occasion. Taurus was nearing end of production so Korea's order literally saved the production line. ROKAF procured almost half of what Germany has acquired, 260 missiles in total. They were committed to funding the development of smaller version of the missile for FA-50 and are cooperating in it. Although now the Koreans are developing their own ACM which would eventually compete with Taurus in export market, they've also provided the opportunity to expand into the niche market thus the reason KEPD 350 is still in the market is, like I've said, thanks to Korea in the first place.

Other example would be SOM. Lockheed wanted to compete with JSM on F-35 launched ACM market so they helped Turkey out technologically. It only turned out to be a failure because LM wasn't able to expect the shit show that happened in Turkey's political and diplomatic sides of affairs.

If Indonesia wants to have same kind of leverage, SCALP needs to first be in a dire situation commercially and should procure SCALF in large numbers. That's the minimal requirement. Investing into the program like funding the development of further variant could sweeten the deal as well. I'm not so sure if Indonesia would be this committed into the SCALF procurement though.

Not sure why you said this🤔. We got 28 F-16 block 25 + 2 F-16 block 15 for free in 2011. We only needed to pay for the refurbishment/upgrade cost, delivery, etc, but not for the aircraft itself.

You laughed at the idea of 100 freebies/EDA F-16? Well, let's see. The USAF still operate around 700-800 F-16 C/D with active forces and around 300-400 F-16C/D with Air National Guard. They want to replace most of them with F-35. So it's still possible.

Speaking of SU-35, it'll be hilarious if the result of the talks is that the U.S. will give us a special waiver to proceed with our SU-35 deal with the Russians😁.

Korea tried to get some second hand F-16s from the USAF around 2018 or so for stop gap until KF-X is ready but was eventually declined by the US MoD because every F-16 in AMARG were "too worn off and had too much mechanical stress on the airframe". That is the newest information regarding the F-16s in the US so I would keep my opinion. Maybe Indonesia is okay to take those F-16s which ROKAF wouldn't but I think it rather is just a change of situation compared to 2011.

I don't dare to dream anymore bro . I just don't dare 😂😂

Mostly because i haven't see their formal offer in written document as yet . And like mang ujang used to say to me ...

When thing was sound too good to be true it usually it is . And Korean mutant taught us a very hard lesson allready .
Just let it flow ... Let it flow ... Even the written contract could be nulled in our flowered beloved country . I'll take everything with a bucketload of salt .

Hura percoyo yen ra ono futune ... 😀😀

Guess by "Korean Mutant" you mean the subs Indonesia got from Korea? Not so sure what you are trying to emphasize regarding this matter as I don't exactly know every news and detail about the subs, though you sound quite negative concerning those affairs so I'll say I'm curious. Would you mind if I ask?

Though you are right saying "When thing was sound too good to be true it usually it is". Like I've said thos subs were 100% funded by the Korean govn. loans. What you get in such terms, you usually cannot complain about.



Also, even though those Russian jets are still a possibility, I don't think the Indonesians would go buy those horrendous nightmares. There's a reason countries like Malaysia and India are trying to get away from those jets. The plane itself are not bad although not top-notch, but the system behind is absolutely abysmal. Same story applies literally to any kind of Russian equipment. Be it armors, submarines, jets. The only kind of weapon from Russia that are half decent in making are those SAM systems and even those are showing its weaknesses in Middle East and Caucasus.
 
For which trance?

Tranche 2 and 3. ECRS Mk.2 is a completely new radar compared to Captor E Mk.1 that Germany and Spain are getting for their Typhoons. Although the name suggests that the Captor E Mk.1 is a further development of Captor E Mk.0 which the Kuwait and Oman got, Captor E Mk.1 is very distinct from Mk.0 and has completely new hardware. It's rather comparable to the difference between the AN/PG-63(V)3 and AN/PG-82(V)1. Mk.0 would be the former and Mk.1 would be the latter. Same applies to the ECRS Mk.2. Although named Mk.2, it has a completely new MFA, thus has TRM, back-end cooling and power supply that can handle higher peak power compared to Captor E Mk.1. Mk.1 is cheaper though, which is the reason Luftwaffe stick with the Mk.1. ECRS Mk.2 is tailor made to suit RAF's needs, especially their higher demand of A to A capabilities.

So to sum it up :

Captor E Mk.0 : for T3 that Kuwait and Oman got. Based on legacy Captor mechanical radar. Comparable to how the US upgraded the mechanical AN/APG-63(V)1 into an AESA radar in (V)3
Captor E Mk.1 : for T3s of Spain and Germany, almost completely new AESA radar.
ECRS Mk.2 : another new AESA only for RAF.


Also like I've said in the previous post in the last page, legacy Tranche 1s cannot be upgraded into Tranche 2 or 3, thus is the reason the RAF are going to retire their T1 jets only after 20 years of service. There is fundamental structural difference between T1 and further upgraded variants. Even if you try to make it somewhat similar to T2 or T3, you would need to invest a ton of money to develop an upgrade package that will suit T1 because you would not be able to use the knowledge and asset gained from developing T2 and T3.

That is the exact reason why I am suggesting that Indonesia is putting itself up for a bad deal by asking Austria about selling their T1 Typhoons. You guys are literally trying to buy a pile of trash second hand. I would still be against it even if Indonesia is getting it for free. There is a possibility because the Austrians are trying to retire them just like the RAF. They are sticking with it only because of the lawsuit against EADS. The operating costs of those T1 Typhoons are mind blowing high. It will only get higher once again when the RAF finally retires them. Well at least when you guys get them for free or for almost nothing, you wouldn't need to hesitate when retiring those jets yourselves :D.
 
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Tranche 2 and 3. ECRS Mk.2 is a completely new radar compared to Captor E Mk.1 that Germany and Spain are getting for their Typhoons. Although the name suggests that the Captor E Mk.1 is a further development of Captor E Mk.0 which the Kuwait and Oman got, Captor E Mk.1 is very distinct from Mk.0 and has completely new hardware. It's rather comparable to the difference between the AN/PG-63(V)3 and AN/PG-82(V)1. Mk.0 would be the former and Mk.1 would be the latter. Same applies to the ECRS Mk.2. Although named Mk.2, it has a completely new MFA, thus has TRM, back-end cooling and power supply that can handle higher peak power compared to Captor E Mk.1. Mk.1 is cheaper though, which is the reason Luftwaffe stick with the Mk.1. ECRS Mk.2 is tailor made to suit RAF's needs, especially their higher demand of A to A capabilities.

So to sum it up :

Captor E Mk.0 : for T3 that Kuwait and Oman got. Based on legacy Captor mechanical radar. Comparable to how the US upgraded the mechanical AN/APG-63(V)1 into an AESA radar in (V)3
Captor E Mk.1 : for T3s of Spain and Germany, almost completely new AESA radar.
ECRS Mk.2 : another new AESA only for RAF.
If we can't put it in the nose ex austrian trance 1, just forget it..
 
Had to rewrite the comment because I've prematurely submitted it by mistake.



I'm not so sure anymore how much the Indonesians are engaged with the deals with Korea so I can't say for sure but if they are planning to cancel the deal for additional Korean submarines and quit KF-X they better commit into the deals with France in such occasion. Scorpene and Rafale are both superb weaponry although a bit expensive. Full F4 standard is still a few years away and France is also planning to procure the so called F3.5 which has some features of F4 standard so Indonesia might get those F3.5 standard jets as well. Though imo it's better to wait for those few years and get F4 standard. France already have delayed the delivery of Rafales to FAF in order to deliver it to India and Egypt more quickly so they might do the same for Indonesia as well.



Don't expect ToT of those kind of critical technology, especially from the French. They are even more notorious talking about ToT compared to for example, the US. In case of US its hard to get the approval of the congress but once you get that, they keep their promises. French are the ones who don't even keep those promises. Koreans learnt it the hard way.

SCALP could be a possibility considering how the Koreans got the critical tech of KEPD 350 Taurus missile but that was a very special occasion. Taurus was nearing end of production so Korea's order literally saved the production line. ROKAF procured almost half of what Germany has acquired, 260 missiles in total. They were committed to funding the development of smaller version of the missile for FA-50 and are cooperating in it. Although now the Koreans are developing their own ACM which would eventually compete with Taurus in export market, they've also provided the opportunity to expand into the niche market thus the reason KEPD 350 is still in the market is, like I've said, thanks to Korea in the first place.

Other example would be SOM. Lockheed wanted to compete with JSM on F-35 launched ACM market so they helped Turkey out technologically. It only turned out to be a failure because LM wasn't able to expect the shit show that happened in Turkey's political and diplomatic sides of affairs.

If Indonesia wants to have same kind of leverage, SCALP needs to first be in a dire situation commercially and should procure SCALF in large numbers. That's the minimal requirement. Investing into the program like funding the development of further variant could sweeten the deal as well. I'm not so sure if Indonesia would be this committed into the SCALF procurement though.



Korea tried to get some second hand F-16s from the USAF around 2018 or so for stop gap until KF-X is ready but was eventually declined by the US MoD because every F-16 in AMARG were "too worn off and had too much mechanical stress on the airframe". That is the newest information regarding the F-16s in the US so I would keep my opinion. Maybe Indonesia is okay to take those F-16s which ROKAF wouldn't but I think it rather is just a change of situation compared to 2011.



Guess by "Korean Mutant" you mean the subs Indonesia got from Korea? Not so sure what you are trying to emphasize regarding this matter as I don't exactly know every news and detail about the subs, though you sound quite negative concerning those affairs so I'll say I'm curious. Would you mind if I ask?

Though you are right saying "When thing was sound too good to be true it usually it is". Like I've said thos subs were 100% funded by the Korean govn. loans. What you get in such terms, you usually cannot complain about.



Also, even though those Russian jets are still a possibility, I don't think the Indonesians would go buy those horrendous nightmares. There's a reason countries like Malaysia and India are trying to get away from those jets. The plane itself are not bad although not top-notch, but the system behind is absolutely abysmal. Same story applies literally to any kind of Russian equipment. Be it armors, submarines, jets. The only kind of weapon from Russia that are half decent in making are those SAM systems and even those are showing its weaknesses in Middle East and Caucasus.

Personally , i don't buy the french bullshits . I just simply don't believe them . While we had a lot of ToT from them mostly just superficial while they keep things important even for a maintenance sake close to their chest and they tend to make much whining noises when we doing something trying to break a mold or tweak something .
And regarding the subs .... All i could say is while much of blame were come from our side . Disingenouos and underdelivered promises were understatement here .
Well , at least we got something from that too
Regarding the typhon . We are simply take plane as it is and use it until the expired date comes and no modification would be done at all . All we need is a number today .
There is a big chance we all go for KFX continuation
 
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