Indonesia Defence Forum

[kooppyyy]

We're talking about Austrian Typhoon right?

Ah, my bad it seems we're misunderstanding each other, I was talking about the similarity of early F-16 and the Austrian's Typhoon. I was referring to F-16 on my previous post. As for the Typhoon, I can bet the integration would at least up to the C5 standard for AMRAAM, not sure about C7.

 

[Raduga]

Why on earth would be interested in BMP-1!? BMP-2 currently filling the role as make-shift SPAAG for korps marinir, I doubt it is going to be retained once an actual SPAAG is selected. As for MRAP we already got a good base on the proven platform of Thales Bushmaster/Sanca, don't see why we have to look anywhere else. The BMP-V kinda interesting though, this the IFV(H) based on T-64 if I'm not mistaken?

im updated my previous comment , this is the translated instagram post , i dont know what kind of deal involved though , perhaps they offered a local offset more than what Thales Australia offer with their bushmaster MRAP , and if i remember , the notorious PT.Pindad designer Windhu Paramarta was also currently on ukraine , perhaps its related to this .

"A delegation of the Ministry of Defense of the Republic of Indonesia headed by the Vice Marshal of the Air Force of the Main Department of the Defense Forces of the Ministry of Defense of Indonesia Nicholas Ponang Javoto and the Honorable Ambassador of the Republic of Indonesia to Ukraine Prof. Dr. Judy Chrisnandi.

Representatives of the Defense Ministry and diplomats of the Republic of Indonesia got acquainted with the company's production facilities and main products: specialized armored vehicles "Warta" and "Novator", samples of artillery weapons and ammunition for it. Special interest arose in the projects of modernized BMP-1 and BMP-2, as well as the development of a new infantry crawler BMP-Guard(BMP-V Vartoviy).

"Our equipment shows itself perfectly in the process of intensive operation in real combat conditions," said Vladislav Belbas, General Director of Ukrainian Armored Vehicles LLC. - Not every arms manufacturer can boast of this. Therefore, potential external customers have irrefutable proof of the operational reliability and functionality of the company's products. "

During the meeting, the delegates praised the quality and technical characteristics of the presented military equipment and weapons, noting that, in their opinion, the company's products are competitive in foreign markets and potentially interesting to the security forces of the Republic of Indonesia.

"Although the weapons market is extremely conservative, our company is gradually becoming part of it," said Dmitry Polyakov, the company's first deputy general director. - Creating modern military equipment and weapons, we raise the bar of special purpose products in Ukraine and have the opportunity to represent the country abroad. We thank the members of the delegation very much for their interest and approval, and we hope that today's meeting will be the beginning of mutually beneficial cooperation in the near future. "

# ukrainian armored vehicles # armored vehicles # delegation # indonesia # ambassador of indonesia # juddicrisnandi # innovator # guard # bmpvartovy #ukrainianarmor #ukrarmor #novator #varta #ifv "

 

[Raduga]

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[Cromwell]

There are funny assumptions yet more like stupid ones circulated in local military forums regarding this thread and me.

1st i'm not a nurse and i don't work in RSHS general hospital, i'm a medical doctor however and that would be stupidly retarded to asume RSHS as the only COVID 19 reference hospital in West Java, that's just retardedly funny.

2nd yes this thread consists of people who in real life works as marketing agents for foreign defence companies but being employed there means they know things in detail both in the office & field more than bloggers with their fansboyism.

3rd idk where this whole retarded ideas come from but i doubt people here creating " clone id " just to get more speaker on this thread, we don't enforce people with different opinions to silent, in fact we argue one another on daily basis.

I hope i don't kill your " fantasy ", i can't believe how funny people are out there with their imaginative hillariously assumptions.
Btw to those " intellectual silent readers " please read & compare yourself on how discussion on comment sections in the forum you participate and how people discuss things here yet still you call this one being " funny ", well that's the real joke.

 

[Whizzack]

You're putting a lot of faith that the Air Force would be able to operate 3 'prime' jets with overlapping capabilities under the shoestring budget they always have, especially one that has a notorious reputation for being a "hangar queen".

AU was already planning on getting an additional Flanker Sq (Su-35) for Sq 14 even before this Typhoon thingie... So yeah, I'm pretty sure AU at the very least can support one other additional heavy fighter Sq... No way they will disband Sq 11 just because the Typhoons are here... and anyway we need all available airframes now, especially with all of the F-16 fleet planned to be under various stages of upgrading till 2024... Btw what is this obsession of yours with Flankers being "hangar queens" anyway...? Sq 11/14 are flying and training with their Flankers regularly just like any other Squadron... You sure u're not mixing it up with RMAF's MKM...?

Here are links to some of their activities after just a quick google search :

TNI AU Berhasil dalam Misi Night Air Refueling Pesawat Sukhoi

15 Juni 2020 Latihan Night Air Refueling pesawat Sukhoi Su-30 dari tanker KC-130 Hercules TNI AU (photos : TNI) MAKASSAR,suaramerdeka...

defense-studies.blogspot.com

Penerbang Skadron Udara 11 berlatih Dog Fight dan BVR di Lanud Iswahjudi

Penerbang Skadron Udara 11 berlatih Dog Fight dan BVR di Lanud Iswahjudi - Berita - TNI Angkatan Udara

tni-au.mil.id

TNI AU Gelar Latihan “Elang Gesit” di Lanud Iswahjudi

17 Maret 2020 Pesawat tempur T-50i TNI AU (photo : Suryadi Wijaksono) Beritatrends, Magetan – Komandan Lanud Iswahjudi, Marsekal Pert...

defense-studies.blogspot.com

Latihan Terbang Malam Skadron Udara 11 dan Skadron Udara 5

Latihan Terbang Malam Skadron Udara 11 dan Skadron Udara 5 - Berita - TNI Angkatan Udara

tni-au.mil.id

Saat Sukhoi dan F16 TNI AU Membombardir Pertahanan Udara Musuh

09 September 2018 Wilayah pertahanan udara musuh dibombardir dua pesawat tempur strategis TNI AU, Sukhoi Su27/30 dan F16 Fighting Falco...

defense-studies.blogspot.com

I am sure there are much more activities that's not published to the general public...

Also, the whole point of getting new tankers is to be able to refuel everything. Being able to do AAR with ONE tanker is hardly a counter-argument when capabilities and logistics wise it is FAR cheaper to operate the F-16.

Who the heck is comparing logistic costs with F-16s anyway...? I was just pointing out that at this moment Flanker pilots are able to practice AAR while Falcon pilots cannot... which is kinda ironic, as Falcons with its much shorter range is actually the one that needs it more compared to Flankers

They were upgraded years ago, and we still don't know what they even upgraded since unlike the US and Europe, the Russians are never transparent. But if Russian weapons export policies say anything, I doubt it would offer much in terms of capability when compared to anything Europe or the US would offer.

The latest 2 just returned in 2019... and what does Russian transparency got anything to do with that..? Just because the general public doesn't know the details, doesn't mean it wasn't upgraded to the satisfaction of the AU... And again why compare it to US fighters...? An upgrade is successful because it improved or added new capabilities compared to before the upgrade... Our F16 A/B, even after the eMLU, is still not exactly on par to RSAF F-16s, and yet we are happy to have it done because it improved and added new capabilites compared to before the upgrade... Likewise with the Flankers...

CAATSA.

CAATSA concerns with getting new equipment of significant value, why would maintaining and upgrading existing assets be a concern...? and anyway our 4 Flankers were upgraded with CAATSA already active, and no issues... Regarding major purchases, let's see how CAATSA will deal with Egypt, India and Turkey first...

 

[¿Por qué?]

European fighter like Typhoon and American jet are in the same camp. Western camp. Buying Typhoon is not mean to do diversification for possible embargo that we have experienced before. Do you still remember that not only F16 that got the US embargo effect but also our Hawk from Britain ?

As I said previously buying Typhoon IMO is more due to cheap price and quick delivery and I dont think it will get upgrade because if it do the upgrade the delivery will be quite long and the price will be going up significantly.

Yes, off course. This Austrian EF stuff is obviously interim program. We have to deal with this first until MEF 2024. We're still lacking around 80 jets right? Also I didn't name any jet when I said "European jets".

I'm not sure how the geopolitical constellation will be in Europe post 2024. Even the Germans, as the EU biggest economy, want to increase their influence in Indo-Pacific. The UK want to have individual deal with the biggest economy (including Indonesia) post Brexit. There could be so much going on. So we'll see.

 

[Gundala]

Diversify is good but relying on Russia made aircraft isn't wise for now. Their supply chain has been in disaray after the fall of USSR. Some aviation/naval technology has fallen and kept by Ukraine as we all know, not to mention their fabrication. There was a time when even if we have the money the parts itself isnt avaiable. But they slowly getting it done now, the new (in development) "universal engine" and the latest introduction of AL41-F indicate that they are now moving in forward direction rather then busy cleaning up some mess. In the next 5 years or so I believe they could manage to build this reliable universal engine and then we can all discuss the diversification again. As good or as bad as they are, Russia is the solid diversification for us France come second imo. But for now this isnt the right time.

Tho this doesnt change the fact that they need to visit the bengkel more often then other fighter assets that we have in one year cycle thus reducing the overall fighter readyness.

There are funny assumptions yet more like stupid ones circulated in local military forums regarding this thread and me.

1st i'm not a nurse and i don't work in RSHS general hospital, i'm a medical doctor however and that would be stupidly retarded to asume RSHS as the only COVID 19 reference hospital in West Java, that's just retardedly funny.

2nd yes this thread consists of people who in real life works as marketing agents for foreign defence companies but being employed there means they know things in detail both in the office & field more than bloggers with their fansboyism.

3rd idk where this whole retarded ideas come from but i doubt people here creating " clone id " just to get more speaker on this thread, we don't enforce people with different opinions to silent, in fact we argue one another on daily basis.

I hope i don't kill your " fantasy ", i can't believe how funny people are out there with their imaginative hillariously assumptions.
Btw to those " intellectual silent readers " please read & compare yourself on how discussion on comment sections in the forum you participate and how people discuss things here yet still you call this one being " funny ", well that's the real joke.

Wait what? who and where? Why bringing other people personal stuff like occupation etc? Thats just completely inmature and silly at the same time.

 

[Logam42]

There are funny assumptions yet more like stupid ones circulated in local military forums regarding this thread and me.

1st i'm not a nurse and i don't work in RSHS general hospital, i'm a medical doctor however and that would be stupidly retarded to asume RSHS as the only COVID 19 reference hospital in West Java, that's just retardedly funny.

2nd yes this thread consists of people who in real life works as marketing agents for foreign defence companies but being employed there means they know things in detail both in the office & field more than bloggers with their fansboyism.

3rd idk where this whole retarded ideas come from but i doubt people here creating " clone id " just to get more speaker on this thread, we don't enforce people with different opinions to silent, in fact we argue one another on daily basis.

I hope i don't kill your " fantasy ", i can't believe how funny people are out there with their imaginative hillariously assumptions.
Btw to those " intellectual silent readers " please read & compare yourself on how discussion on comment sections in the forum you participate and how people discuss things here yet still you call this one being " funny ", well that's the real joke.

...As a person who only follows this forum militer (This was my introduction to Formil and I am satisfied enough to not bother getting into a new one)... How the hell did the rumour that you are a nurse in RSHS even start?!

You are among the posters here I follow the most and I hv never seen anything that would link you to RSHS Nurse

 

[Raduga]

...As a person who only follows this forum militer (This was my introduction to Formil and I am satisfied enough to not bother getting into a new one)... How the hell did the rumour that you are a nurse in RSHS even start?! You are among the posters here I follow the most and I hv never seen anything that would link you to RSHS Nurse

my advice is to avoid defense studies comment section , they are more toxic than a waste processing plant.

one of their loudest member accidentally reveal himself in the ROK Armed forces facebook page when their admin posted about indonesia KF-X payment delay , and trust me , they are the most clueless and delude person ive ever met.

 

[¿Por qué?]

Now i have someone who understands my thinking exactly. Back in 1996, Air Chief Marshal Tubagus Sutria back then Chief of Staff to The Air Force forwarded plan to operate 60 units of F-16 & equally the number of Hawk series, we even aimed to acquire 9 F-16 A/B Block 15 OCU intended originally to Pakistan however President Bill Clinton's administration critics regarding our conducts in East Timor failed the acquisition. I wonder if we can revive the old plan.

Just for the sake of discussion. If my understanding is correct, your idea is to have widespread net of smaller jets with low distance capability blanketing our territory in many more airbases.

If we're talking about new jets, don't you think Gripen is much more suitable for this idea than let's say F-16V?

- obviously single engine

- much cheaper. The key is the number, right? Cmiiw, but I suppose you can get 40 Gripens for the price of 24 F-16V?

- flexible weaponry. It can fire AIM-9, AGM-65, Meteor, etc. Quoting Gripen sales guy : "If you buy Gripen, select where you want your weapons from. Israel, Sweden, Europe, US, South America. It's up to the customer"

- much cheaper operating cost. CPFH only US$4,700 vs $7,000 (F-16).

 

[Cromwell]

...As a person who only follows this forum militer (This was my introduction to Formil and I am satisfied enough to not bother getting into a new one)... How the hell did the rumour that you are a nurse in RSHS even start?!

You are among the posters here I follow the most and I hv never seen anything that would link you to RSHS Nurse

Wkwkwk believe me i'm confused either

 

[NEKONEKO]

Just for the sake of discussion. If my understanding is correct, your idea is to have widespread net of smaller jets with low distance capability blanketing our territory in many more airbases.

If we're talking about new jets, don't you think Gripen is much more suitable for this idea than let's say F-16V?

- obviously single engine

- much cheaper. The key is the number, right? Cmiiw, but I suppose you can get 40 Gripens for the price of 24 F-16V?

- flexible weaponry. It can fire AIM-9, AGM-65, Meteor, etc. Quoting Gripen sales guy : "If you buy Gripen, select where you want your weapons from. Israel, Sweden, Europe, US, South America. It's up to the customer"

- much cheaper operating cost. CPFH only US$4,700 vs $7,000 (F-16).

Maybe in the past but we already have F16, won't it be better to increase the number of F16 rather than getting new one that is rather similar?

 

[Cromwell]

Just for the sake of discussion. If my understanding is correct, your idea is to have widespread net of smaller jets with low distance capability blanketing our territory in many more airbases.

If we're talking about new jets, don't you think Gripen is much more suitable for this idea than let's say F-16V?

- obviously single engine

- much cheaper. The key is the number, right? Cmiiw, but I suppose you can get 40 Gripens for the price of 24 F-16V?

- flexible weaponry. It can fire AIM-9, AGM-65, Meteor, etc. Quoting Gripen sales guy : "If you buy Gripen, select where you want your weapons from. Israel, Sweden, Europe, US, South America. It's up to the customer"

- much cheaper operating cost. CPFH only US$4,700 vs $7,000 (F-16).

Well Gripen operators are less compared to F-16 so spare parts availability might be a problem, and then back again to infrastructure & maintenance cost due to it being another type of fighter, Saab is interesting but i'm more inclined to their subsystems & gears. Carl Gustav, N-LAW, Giraffe radar, RBS-70, etc & even i'd like to know more about their offsets on Erieye AEWC vs proposed Boeing 737 AWACS Wedgetail but not Gripen, we already have F-16 & T-50i in its role.

 

[afiq0110]

Just for the sake of discussion. If my understanding is correct, your idea is to have widespread net of smaller jets with low distance capability blanketing our territory in many more airbases.

If we're talking about new jets, don't you think Gripen is much more suitable for this idea than let's say F-16V?

- obviously single engine

- much cheaper. The key is the number, right? Cmiiw, but I suppose you can get 40 Gripens for the price of 24 F-16V?

- flexible weaponry. It can fire AIM-9, AGM-65, Meteor, etc. Quoting Gripen sales guy : "If you buy Gripen, select where you want your weapons from. Israel, Sweden, Europe, US, South America. It's up to the customer"

- much cheaper operating cost. CPFH only US$4,700 vs $7,000 (F-16).

Finally... Could not say it any better...

 

[afiq0110]

Maybe in the past but we already have F16, won't it be better to increase the number of F16 rather than getting new one that is rather similar?

Low operational cost will benefit us long run

And... We can absolutely diversify our weaponry... No strings attached

I personally loved the idea of their ability to be deploy in merely concrete highways