Indonesia Defence Forum

[Chestnut]

Back in 2012 Conservative Prime Minister David Cameron endorsed the sales up to 24 Eurofighter to Indonesia, idk whether current Conservative lead Government under Prime Minister Borris Johnson will continue the policies of his predecessor yet we should remember we're having problems when Labour is in power not Conservative the same way Democrats to Republican in US. It depends on lobbies on UK but idk about strict Germany, they're less compromising. I blame the whole situation to previous Minister of Defence as he refused to sign any major arms contract leading to this Interim Programme. This thing is really complicated, not only we ought to secure licences from European Consortium nations but also the amount of price for us to have Airbus upgrade them before sold to us, not to mention the cost on introducing new infrastructure on this, the training cost, and this fighter notoriously known costly to operate & maintenance. When nations are simplifying their military forces, we diversify things yet in small number, perfect recipee for logistic disaster, idk what irrational thoughts leading to some people overjoy about this, i'm not

I'll just laugh if this blows up in the MinDef's face.

 

[Gundala]

gile beneeer.....

I know right

Tho I see it rather differently, the plan to have SU-35 is for air superiority role while the additional F-16 is for another role. If they still have the SU-35 budget allocation avaiable then this typhoon might go thru (budget wise). But part of the budget was going to use PLN, this is where things get abit complicated as the typhoon we plan to get is used one. So if we get it, the budget for upgrading might not come together with the aircraft, we have to wait another apbn cycle to put it in.

As for F-16/Lightning vs typhoon well the relation is just fund avaiability. If say we get typhoon, we most likely get the F-16 as well tho the purchase might be pushed another year or so due to budgetary issue.

Either way we shoulda just throw the SU-35 budget for additional Viper/Lightning, then again lobby/political interest might push us to different direction....

i just wish another interest groups in House of Representatives roast Minister of Defence in Q&A section thus obstructing this

If there is one it would be minority so dont get your hope too high
But dont let it get us down as well, I still think F-16 still have a chance to go. Afaik typhoon still have US content in it right? Will it require US approval as well as those european? If this true then its going to be interesting to see.

F-16 Block 70/72 For The Win !!
(kok gw rasanya kyk nonton pertandingan bola tim favorit yah? deg deg-an siapa yg nanti bakalan menang )

 

[Nike]

Credit to original owner

 

[Chestnut]

I have zero faith that the Flankers would be able to fly if they get the Eurofighter. The Air Force can not afford to operate all three at the same time. And I highly doubt they would retire their most numerous and proven workhorse.

 

[JCMan]

Back in 2012 Conservative Prime Minister David Cameron endorsed the sales up to 24 Eurofighter to Indonesia, idk whether current Conservative lead Government under Prime Minister Borris Johnson will continue the policies of his predecessor yet we should remember we're having problems when Labour is in power not Conservative the same way Democrats to Republican in US. It depends on lobbies on UK but idk about strict Germany, they're less compromising. I blame the whole situation to previous Minister of Defence as he refused to sign any major arms contract leading to this Interim Programme. This thing is really complicated, not only we ought to secure licences from European Consortium nations but also the amount of price for us to have Airbus upgrade them before sold to us, not to mention the cost on introducing new infrastructure on this, the training cost, and this fighter notoriously known costly to operate & maintenance. When nations are simplifying their military forces, we diversify things yet in small number, perfect recipee for logistic disaster, idk what irrational thoughts leading to some people overjoy about this, i'm not

Good points, but curiously if it was the F-18, F-15, or F-35 that we're going to buy, a certain section of fanboys here will undoubtedly keep silent and will NEVER even mention about things such as "cost on introducing new infrastructure, training cost, cost to operate and maintain" despite the fact that these will also apply and those US fighters were all also notoriously known to be costly to operate and maintain.

On the contrary, terms such as "network centric, datalink, engine commonality, etc etc" will be frantically thrown around to obscure the fact that those US planes are also completely new types of planes that we haven't operated before and the aforementioned downsides related to cost to infrastructures, pilot training, and cost to operate and maintain will also apply to those planes.

 

[Whizzack]

I have zero faith that the Flankers would be able to fly if they get the Eurofighter. The Air Force can not afford to operate all three at the same time. And I highly doubt they would retire their most numerous and proven workhorse.

The Flankers will be just fine, they are useful and AU has invested a lot in them too... They are flying regularly, training regularly, even doing trainings which F-16 pilots can't, like AAR... Some has been upgraded and new flankers simulators has also been setup recently... Even Prabowo has mentioned that he would prioritize fixing (and I assume also upgrading) existing assets rather than buying new... So it's possible that the Flanker fleet might actually undergo a eMLU-like update program somewhat similar to what had been done to our F-16 A/B fleet...

 

[Alex898]

those US fighters were all also notoriously known to be costly to operate and maintain.

not that Im not agree with you, but comparing US fighter mantain and operating cost with fighter from another country is pointless because US fighter has the cheapest cost among them, so those US fanboy ur mentioning has their points. its the same thing with the said introducing and build new infrastructure cost. they are the cheapest. so its just pointless to mention about US fighter maintenance cost because they are the cheapest for us.

On the contrary, terms such as "network centric, datalink, engine commonality, etc etc" will be frantically thrown around to obscure the fact that those US planes are also completely new types of planes that we haven't operated before

this is also a fact, u cant deny it. even if you have F16 and now you even want to buy F35, its easy to integrate them.

 

[Nike]

Don't know why dog keep barking altough had been beaten repeatedly

Keep wondering why Indonesia government let subversive elements to thrive like this journos, this had been a clear threat toward our democracy our country and warrant the harshest punishment

KNPB: Anggota dan Pengurus yang Terlibat Dalam Pilkada adalah Penghianat Bangsa – Suara Papua

Suara Papua KNPB: Anggota dan Pengurus yang Terlibat Dalam Pilkada adalah Penghianat Bangsa

suarapapua.com

 

[Nike]

Meanwhile TNI commander in Chief

Talking and giving moral booster toward the son of late Indonesia pilot who succumbs toward his mortal wounds

https://twitter.com/x/status/1301735616359485445

 

[Chestnut]

The Flankers will be just fine, they are useful and AU has invested a lot in them too...

You're putting a lot of faith that the Air Force would be able to operate 3 'prime' jets with overlapping capabilities under the shoestring budget they always have, especially one that has a notorious reputation for being a "hangar queen".

hey are flying regularly, training regularly, even doing trainings which F-16 pilots can't, like AAR

Citation needed.

Also, the whole point of getting new tankers is to be able to refuel everything. Being able to do AAR with ONE tanker is hardly a counter-argument when capabilities and logistics wise it is FAR cheaper to operate the F-16.

Some has been upgraded and new flankers simulators has also been setup recently

They were upgraded years ago, and we still don't know what they even upgraded since unlike the US and Europe, the Russians are never transparent. But if Russian weapons export policies say anything, I doubt it would offer much in terms of capability when compared to anything Europe or the US would offer.

So it's possible that the Flanker fleet might actually undergo a eMLU-like update program somewhat similar to what had been done to our F-16 A/B fleet...

CAATSA.

 

[Chestnut]

Good points, but curiously if it was the F-18, F-15, or F-35 that we're going to buy, a certain section of fanboys here will undoubtedly keep silent and will NEVER even mention about things such as "cost on introducing new infrastructure, training cost, cost to operate and maintain" despite the fact that these will also apply and those US fighters were all also notoriously known to be costly to operate and maintain.

Of course they do. At no point any of us ever mentioned anything about how there would not be any sort of infrastructure or integration costs.

Rather, what me, @Gen3115, @Cromwell, @Nike, and countless others have pointed out that American jets share a lot of common sub-components together (things like RWR's, pods, avionics, etc). Not to mention they all use the same weapons as one another. So by default a lot of those integration, training, and maintenance costs are going to SUBSTANTIALLY cheaper then bringing in things from Europe of Russia.

On the contrary, terms such as "network centric, datalink, engine commonality, etc etc" will be frantically thrown around to obscure the fact that those US planes are also completely new types of planes that we haven't operated before and the aforementioned downsides related to cost to infrastructures, pilot training, and cost to operate and maintain will also apply to those planes.

Again, look what I have said above. At this point all I see is you grasping at straws like you usually do.

 

[Chestnut]

this is also a fact, u cant deny it. even if you have F16 and now you even want to buy F35, its easy to integrate them.

I would say EASIER, not easy.

 

[umigami]

Did Austrian Typhoon need to be tweaked to be able to launch AMRAAM (or any other US AAM) or they already can do it as its current condition??

 

[Cromwell]

Good points, but curiously if it was the F-18, F-15, or F-35 that we're going to buy, a certain section of fanboys here will undoubtedly keep silent and will NEVER even mention about things such as "cost on introducing new infrastructure, training cost, cost to operate and maintain" despite the fact that these will also apply and those US fighters were all also notoriously known to be costly to operate and maintain.

On the contrary, terms such as "network centric, datalink, engine commonality, etc etc" will be frantically thrown around to obscure the fact that those US planes are also completely new types of planes that we haven't operated before and the aforementioned downsides related to cost to infrastructures, pilot training, and cost to operate and maintain will also apply to those planes.

You just suddenly forget the whole facts that those US fighters share the common subsystems ( avionic, RWR, etc ), armaments, and occasionally same engine so the cost will certainly lower than wholely different Rafale or EF and i'm among those firm believer that Indonesia will be better optimised if we stick to original plan in New Order era, to entirely operate single engine fighters but in large number

 

[kooppyyy]

Did Austrian Typhoon need to be tweaked to be able to launch AMRAAM (or any other US AAM) or they already can do it as its current condition??

Would be required to be upgraded to Tranche 2, it is currently a Tranche 1 build.