Indonesia Defence Forum

[Nike]

Yea that's not going to happen, and you say it's not propaganda, the fact you would even think China would do something like that speaks volume. We have so much FDI and our country grows at such a rate is not because we don't allow competition.

in terms of fisheries, one of the reasons for the ambiguous nature of our dispute is that even if claimed, it's a very small area, not enough to affect it.


Lastly, I seen the Indo navy, go check out China's, see if 1960s Frigate is really the answer to our navy. If we want to control SCS like you said, which is with overwhelming force, we could.

that's why we are using a more cautious approach to deal with PRC and even some measure points has been taken to deal with the problems

alienate you guys will bring more harm than benefit for all of us, that's why we are engaging a more indirect but careful approach to consolidate the positions and strategic uphold all of major power in South China Sea (including Japan and US) to playing the games without compromising the already deteriorate conditions here. After all what we need is not a zero game conditions but a more like everyone can play the games approach.

 

[Nike]

credit to orem2tempe | Kaskus - The Largest Indonesian Community orem-orem tempe

Indonesian Army Raider capturing Malaysian Soldiers after they breach the perimeter of border defense line

 

[Jakartans@PkDef]

If we want to control SCS like you said, which is with overwhelming force, we could.

Yes , China wants to control SCS. and yes China have overwhelming force compares to Indonesia or some of ASEAN country. But china doesnt have the GUTS to do it openly. Just like what you did to Taiwan. You can invade that small island anytime you want but at what cost? not just military but there will be economic and political cost that makes Beijing leaders reluctant to do it. Your mass fisherman kamikaze fleet is a clear sign that PLAN are avoiding direct confrontation with US 7th fleet. Your Navy is far from blue water Navy and your Aircraft Carrier is no more than a very expensive yet ineffective propaganda tools. Your fighter pilots cannot even land on that Carrier properly and you dont have any military base outside your mainland to support a true Blue Water Navy mission. You must know your limit. The US succeed becoming the world superpower because they know the limit of their military and make it up with diplomatic effort.

Lastly, in my opinion, China wants to convert the SCS into territorial water limiting the movement of US 7th fleet and controlling the air space of neighboring country.

 

[nufix]

Lastly, I seen the Indo navy, go check out China's, see if 1960s Frigate is really the answer to our navy. If we want to control SCS like you said, which is with overwhelming force, we could.

actually the 1960's frigates, you say, have been upgraded several times and armed with weapons as heavy as Yakhont, the only thing that's 1960's is the platform. We aren't Philippines, we won't operate ships that can't fire guided missiles.

 

[Nike]

actually the 1960's frigates, you say, have been upgraded several times and armed with weapons as heavy as Yakhont, the only thing that's 1960's is the platform. We aren't Philippines, we won't operate ships that can't fire guided missiles.

View attachment 101623

still doesn't enough, we need to carefully mind our step before them

 

[nufix]

still doesn't enough, we need to carefully mind our step before them

agree, I just pointed out that the 1960's frigate may not as old as he thinks. But still, in order to cope with the situation, we must add more frigates to the list and use more diplomatic ways as well as present ourselves in SCS.

 

[Nike]

agree, I just pointed out that the 1960's frigate may not as old as he thinks. But still, in order to cope with the situation, we must add more frigates to the list and use more diplomatic ways as well as present ourselves in SCS.

agree if we had a fleet of 20 PKR like frigate and handfull AAW frigate and destroyer, we can made them think twice before venturing too far into our territory

 

[nufix]

agree if we had a fleet of 20 PKR like frigate and handfull AAW frigate and destroyer, we can made them think twice before venturing too far into our territory

Then we must wait until at least 2020 for the completion of the MEF II

Ah destroyer.. any plan yet?

 

[Nike]

Then we must wait until at least 2020 for the completion of the MEF II

Ah destroyer.. any plan yet?

just an absurd plan, quite amusing indeed

 

[Ayan81]

actually the 1960's frigates, you say, have been upgraded several times and armed with weapons as heavy as Yakhont, the only thing that's 1960's is the platform. We aren't Philippines, we won't operate ships that can't fire guided missiles.

View attachment 101623

sad but true, but do you really have to humiliate us with that statement.

 

[Genesis]

Yes , China wants to control SCS. and yes China have overwhelming force compares to Indonesia or some of ASEAN country. But china doesnt have the GUTS to do it openly. Just like what you did to Taiwan. You can invade that small island anytime you want but at what cost? not just military but there will be economic and political cost that makes Beijing leaders reluctant to do it. Your mass fisherman kamikaze fleet is a clear sign that PLAN are avoiding direct confrontation with US 7th fleet. Your Navy is far from blue water Navy and your Aircraft Carrier is no more than a very expensive yet ineffective propaganda tools. Your fighter pilots cannot even land on that Carrier properly and you dont have any military base outside your mainland to support a true Blue Water Navy mission. You must know your limit. The US succeed becoming the world superpower because they know the limit of their military and make it up with diplomatic effort.

Lastly, in my opinion, China wants to convert the SCS into territorial water limiting the movement of US 7th fleet and controlling the air space of neighboring country.

We know our limits very well, yes carriers takes time, 15, maybe even 20 years before a tradition gets developed. We haven o naval academy at the moment, no qualified teachers, and we lack the experience only time and combat can provide. Not to mention the J-15 still needs to be improved before it can be matched with the best of other 4++ fighters. Did I also mention engines.

Our navy is not a blue water navy, the naval HQ has set the date to 2050 for a true blue water navy. But with the Gulf of Aden anti pirate missions and other training missions we are now involved in, our efficiency is increasing. We are building massive fleets of replenishment ships for further deployment.

In terms of air power, air refuel is a major problem, but we are also on our way to solve that problem, perhaps by as early as ~2022.

We are already developing, in fact already 2 prototypes for Anti-Sub planes are test flight mode.

We don't need any bases of operation in SCS, the replenishment ships will do. Though in times of war, the new artificial islands will be fine for resupply. Further, especially Indian ocean than yes, we do need bases there to operate.


Yes, we don't have the "GUTS" to use your words, because, we are no longer stuck in a previous age, we value our soldiers, as hard as it is for you to believe, we will not send people on a suicide mission, we will equip them with the best equipment and training to make sure they come back alive. But that's only in regards to the US navy, and the Japanese navy to an extent.


BTW, look at our navy, just the SCS fleet is enough to destroy all of ASEAN's navy without suffering much. You still have that mentality that China doesn't have enough numbers or quality to do so, I can assure you, we do.

actually the 1960's frigates, you say, have been upgraded several times and armed with weapons as heavy as Yakhont, the only thing that's 1960's is the platform. We aren't Philippines, we won't operate ships that can't fire guided missiles.

View attachment 101623

The radar on that ship is not great, there are reasons AEGIS destroyers are developed, it's not for fun. Oh and all frigates can do that now days.

Besides, with that design, it would light up on a radar like the fourth of july.

 

[nufix]

The radar on that ship is not great, there are reasons AEGIS destroyers are developed, it's not for fun. Oh and all frigates can do that now days.

Besides, with that design, it would light up on a radar like the fourth of july.

luckily, we are not having AEGIS destroyers as enemy. Anyway, yes, any old ships are old, that's why Indonesian navy have launched several projects to replace the old frigates gradually.

By the way, are we really talking about this like Indonesia and China are already in a situation where we confront each other's ship on the seas? Indonesia and china are still pretty far away from that noise, no need for hostile word or threat, otherwise China will add more unnecessary enemies to the list. Indonesia will guard its water territory, I can assure you that, even if Indonesia should invite the U.S to the party, but Indonesia is not stupid enough to disrupt trades and economic potential with China and other countries so Indonesia will likely to remain neutral as long as China doesn't provoke and unnecessarily drag Indonesia to the conflict. It is THAT simple.

 

[Viet]

...
Yes, we don't have the "GUTS" to use your words, because, we are no longer stuck in a previous age, we value our soldiers, as hard as it is for you to believe, we will not send people on a suicide mission, we will equip them with the best equipment and training to make sure they come back alive. But that's only in regards to the US navy, and the Japanese navy to an extent.


BTW, look at our navy, just the SCS fleet is enough to destroy all of ASEAN's navy without suffering much. You still have that mentality that China doesn't have enough numbers or quality to do so, I can assure you, we do.

destroying all of ASEAN's navy without suffering much?
how? with your big mouth?

 

[Jakartans@PkDef]

We know our limits very well, yes carriers takes time, 15, maybe even 20 years before a tradition gets developed. We haven o naval academy at the moment, no qualified teachers, and we lack the experience only time and combat can provide. Not to mention the J-15 still needs to be improved before it can be matched with the best of other 4++ fighters. Did I also mention engines.

Our navy is not a blue water navy, the naval HQ has set the date to 2050 for a true blue water navy. But with the Gulf of Aden anti pirate missions and other training missions we are now involved in, our efficiency is increasing. We are building massive fleets of replenishment ships for further deployment.

In terms of air power, air refuel is a major problem, but we are also on our way to solve that problem, perhaps by as early as ~2022.

We are already developing, in fact already 2 prototypes for Anti-Sub planes are test flight mode.

We don't need any bases of operation in SCS, the replenishment ships will do. Though in times of war, the new artificial islands will be fine for resupply. Further, especially Indian ocean than yes, we do need bases there to operate.


Yes, we don't have the "GUTS" to use your words, because, we are no longer stuck in a previous age, we value our soldiers, as hard as it is for you to believe, we will not send people on a suicide mission, we will equip them with the best equipment and training to make sure they come back alive. But that's only in regards to the US navy, and the Japanese navy to an extent.


BTW, look at our navy, just the SCS fleet is enough to destroy all of ASEAN's navy without suffering much. You still have that mentality that China doesn't have enough numbers or quality to do so, I can assure you, we do.





The radar on that ship is not great, there are reasons AEGIS destroyers are developed, it's not for fun. Oh and all frigates can do that now days.

Besides, with that design, it would light up on a radar like the fourth of july.

Playing bully is just making you a laughing stock here my friend
Open your eyes, China not yet achieve the status of regional hegemony, China is cornered by all US allies and some of them (Japan, South Korea) are at the same level or even better than China in technology.
Here in SCS, Indonesia is fighting to balance the power between US and China. Meaning that we dont want US to become military hegemony here.
So China should look at us as partner since Indonesia is the wager between US and China here in ASEAN or to be precise : the SCS.
Creating SCS free from any domination from Superpower nation is our main policy. So its time for China to pay respect to ASEAN nation especially in sea sovereignty.

I tell you my friend, its very easy for Indonesia to switch totally to US side and we can get showered by military aid and equipment even more than what US did to Pakistan since we rule the choke point between the Pacific and Indian ocean. The Australia look at us as the buffer from any threat from the north.

So again, yes we are the big dog in this area my friend. Please dont disappoint us or China will find herself trapped in the US military influence from the pacific to the SCS.

For my Indonesian fellows here, sorry gw jadinya frontal krn postingan doi udah masuk dalam ranah ancaman dimana respon kita cuma satu : Elo Jual, Gw Beli.

 

[Zero_wing]

actually the 1960's frigates, you say, have been upgraded several times and armed with weapons as heavy as Yakhont, the only thing that's 1960's is the platform. We aren't Philippines, we won't operate ships that can't fire guided missiles.

View attachment 101623

That will change pretty soon