Indonesia Defence Forum

[radialv]

I'm fairly sure it's 4 Martadinatas + 2 Ivers.

2 iver will be good, but 4 iver instead of 2 i think prety amazing

 

[ardezzo]

Yes, 4 iver and two PKR to replace van speijk in one on one basis

I still hope we continue PKR project to replace our old "Parchim" and I don't hope for 1 on 1 replacement, 1 for 2 is enough for me

 

[Nike]

Martadinata-class frigates were meant to replace all Ahmad Yani-class frigates, so it's pretty much "confirmed" that we will at least have 6 ships of this class....maybe.

There's no doubt for the 3rd and 4th frigate, but the question is...will it be 4 total Martadinata and 2 Iver Huitfeldt, 6 Martadinata and 2 Iver Huitfeldt, or 6 Martadinata and 4 Iver Huitfeldt (both in two batch)? There's many hearsay that 4 "Destroyers" will be acquired, and of course it points out towards Iver. But apparently the available 800 million USD is only able to buy two Ivers in one batch, and we can't be sure whether there will be a follow-up orders or not.

Some of my concerns is the VLS system that will equip the Iver Huitfeldt-class, i feel that it'll be better if we retain the Mk41 and Mk56 modules just like in the original Danish Navy configuration, both the system and the missiles are relatively cheap and abundant, they are more versatile, their performance is quite good (i mean, they are staple for AEGIS), and the system could pack more missiles (quad-pack ESSM) and therefore more potential firepower per ship if needed.

There are some concerns within the Military and the defense ministry about "embargo" and potentially complicated contract for the VLS system and the missiles if we did choose the American Mk41 and Mk56, so the other option is Sylver VLS with Aster 15/30 as it's main SAM missile, and they could very well be the stronger candidate as we already have some business with MBDA for the MICA and Exocets. But Sylver and it's missiles are expensive, easily twice the price of an Mk41 system, and although there are user of them in the region, i doubt the Navy would spend that much extra money just to avoid having business in strategic area with the US.

Mk41 VLS is just launching platform, i would be glad to combined Asrocc and essm, nothing fancy but quite practical and got no much issue
We had got AMRAAM, there is no issue for the same level of missile like ESSM in clearence for sale to Indonesia, if it all about SM series they still asking our commitment...

I still hope we continue PKR project to replace our old "Parchim" and I don't hope for 1 on 1 replacement, 1 for 2 is enough for me

Should go for local corvettes design , i heard mabes TNI AL is asking for possible replacement design optimized for ASW roles based on success, easy to build and simple design of KCR 60 class and performa of diponegoro class.

 

[striver44]

too bad if they indeed canceled the pkr. heck the pkr project objective is to replaced all outdated platforms from with a single class of hulls. the requirement is about 22 ships initially

Martadinata-class frigates were meant to replace all Ahmad Yani-class frigates, so it's pretty much "confirmed" that we will at least have 6 ships of this class....maybe.

There's no doubt for the 3rd and 4th frigate, but the question is...will it be 4 total Martadinata and 2 Iver Huitfeldt, 6 Martadinata and 2 Iver Huitfeldt, or 6 Martadinata and 4 Iver Huitfeldt (both in two batch)? There's many hearsay that 4 "Destroyers" will be acquired, and of course it points out towards Iver. But apparently the available 800 million USD is only able to buy two Ivers in one batch, and we can't be sure whether there will be a follow-up orders or not.

Some of my concerns is the VLS system that will equip the Iver Huitfeldt-class, i feel that it'll be better if we retain the Mk41 and Mk56 modules just like in the original Danish Navy configuration, both the system and the missiles are relatively cheap and abundant, they are more versatile, their performance is quite good (i mean, they are staple for AEGIS), and the system could pack more missiles (quad-pack ESSM) and therefore more potential firepower per ship if needed.

There are some concerns within the Military and the defense ministry about "embargo" and potentially complicated contract for the VLS system and the missiles if we did choose the American Mk41 and Mk56, so the other option is Sylver VLS with Aster 15/30 as it's main SAM missile, and they could very well be the stronger candidate as we already have some business with MBDA for the MICA and Exocets. But Sylver and it's missiles are expensive, easily twice the price of an Mk41 system, and although there are user of them in the region, i doubt the Navy would spend that much extra money just to avoid having business in strategic area with the US.

is the 3rd and 4th ship contract signed already??? havent heard anything since atleast 2017.

 

[Nike]

too bad if they indeed canceled the pkr. heck the pkr project objective is to replaced all outdated platforms from with a single class of hulls. the requirement is about 22 ships initially


is the 3rd and 4th ship contract signed already??? havent heard anything since atleast 2017.

No contract, pkr is quite expensive though

 

[Jatosint]

I still hope we continue PKR project to replace our old "Parchim" and I don't hope for 1 on 1 replacement, 1 for 2 is enough for me

If I remember correctly, Parchim will be replaced by Diponegoro Class (Sigma 9113), not PKR (Sigma 10514).

too bad if they indeed canceled the pkr. heck the pkr project objective is to replaced all outdated platforms from with a single class of hulls. the requirement is about 22 ships initially


is the 3rd and 4th ship contract signed already??? havent heard anything since atleast 2017.

No contract signing yet. The last sigma-related news was last September in which our MoD said that there will be 8 new ships: "4 Sigma, 4 PKR"

 

[Nike]

If I remember correctly, Parchim will be replaced by Diponegoro Class (Sigma 9113), not PKR (Sigma 10514).



No contract signing yet. The last sigma-related news was last September in which our MoD said that there will be 8 new ships: "4 Sigma, 4 PKR"

Fact is, Dutch vessels design with Frenchie stuff is very expensive compared to South Korean vessels design with US and SWEDEN made system. Look at AAW frigate Thailand just recently got, just with slightly 400 million US dollar price tag got fully fledged system comparable to light destroyer

 

[pr1v4t33r]

 

[Nike]

MKEK ATGM
SpetsTechnoExport to supply 120 mm anti-tank laser guided missiles to Turkey.
01.05.2019
During the first day of the IDEF'19 International Defence Industry Fair held in Istanbul, the SE SFTE “Spetstechnoexport” solemnly initialed a contract with the Turkish state corporation "Makina ve Kimya Endüstrisi Kurumu" ("MKEK") for supply of 120 mm anti-tank laser guided missiles “Konus”, developed and produced by the “State Kyiv Design Bureau “Luch”.

Photo, from left side: first line: Mr. Pavlo Bukin, Director General of the State Concern "Ukroboronprom", Mr. Mehmet Ünal, Acting Director General of “MKEK”, Mr. Vladyslav Belbas, director of the SE SFTE "Spetstechnoexport". Second line: Mr. Oleg Korostylev - Director General of the “State Kyiv Design Bureau “Luch”, Mr. Serhiy Pashynskyi, Head of the Committee for Security and Defense of Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine, Mr. Muhsin Dere, the Deputy Minister of National Defense of Turkey, Mr. Serhiy Kryvonos, Deputy Secretary of the National Security and Defense Council of Ukraine.

During the first stage of the contract implementation, there is planned to supply 120 mm anti-tank laser guided missiles “Konus” and guidance systems for their integration into Turkish main battle tanks. Subsequently, there will be a partial transfer of technologies - Ukrainian guided missiles will be produced at the "MKEK" capacities.

As a result of the initialization of the contract, the parties agreed on the issues of cost and terms of delivery, as well as all conditions for the agreement implementation. The completion of the signing procedure and the start of production of an export batch of missiles is scheduled for the coming weeks.

The anti-tank laser guided missile "Konus" was specially developed by the “State Kyiv Design Bureau “Luch” for firing from armored tanks with NATO caliber 120 mm main gun. The missile is capable of striking the target at a distance of 5 km, far exceeding the range of conventional tank projectiles. The tandem combat part of the missile is capable of destroying a dynamic protection system of enemy tank and punching up to 800 mm of armor.

The advantage of cooperating with Turkish “MKEK” is the ability to supply high-precision weapons not only to the Turkish Armed Forces, but also to increase the presence of Ukrainian defense products in other markets that operate 120-mm guns and actively cooperate with the Turkish defense industry - in particular, the Middle-East countries and South-East Asia.

Should trying from our Leopard 2 to enhance their lethality

 

[Chestnut]

MKEK ATGM
SpetsTechnoExport to supply 120 mm anti-tank laser guided missiles to Turkey.
01.05.2019
During the first day of the IDEF'19 International Defence Industry Fair held in Istanbul, the SE SFTE “Spetstechnoexport” solemnly initialed a contract with the Turkish state corporation "Makina ve Kimya Endüstrisi Kurumu" ("MKEK") for supply of 120 mm anti-tank laser guided missiles “Konus”, developed and produced by the “State Kyiv Design Bureau “Luch”.

Photo, from left side: first line: Mr. Pavlo Bukin, Director General of the State Concern "Ukroboronprom", Mr. Mehmet Ünal, Acting Director General of “MKEK”, Mr. Vladyslav Belbas, director of the SE SFTE "Spetstechnoexport". Second line: Mr. Oleg Korostylev - Director General of the “State Kyiv Design Bureau “Luch”, Mr. Serhiy Pashynskyi, Head of the Committee for Security and Defense of Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine, Mr. Muhsin Dere, the Deputy Minister of National Defense of Turkey, Mr. Serhiy Kryvonos, Deputy Secretary of the National Security and Defense Council of Ukraine.

During the first stage of the contract implementation, there is planned to supply 120 mm anti-tank laser guided missiles “Konus” and guidance systems for their integration into Turkish main battle tanks. Subsequently, there will be a partial transfer of technologies - Ukrainian guided missiles will be produced at the "MKEK" capacities.

As a result of the initialization of the contract, the parties agreed on the issues of cost and terms of delivery, as well as all conditions for the agreement implementation. The completion of the signing procedure and the start of production of an export batch of missiles is scheduled for the coming weeks.

The anti-tank laser guided missile "Konus" was specially developed by the “State Kyiv Design Bureau “Luch” for firing from armored tanks with NATO caliber 120 mm main gun. The missile is capable of striking the target at a distance of 5 km, far exceeding the range of conventional tank projectiles. The tandem combat part of the missile is capable of destroying a dynamic protection system of enemy tank and punching up to 800 mm of armor.

The advantage of cooperating with Turkish “MKEK” is the ability to supply high-precision weapons not only to the Turkish Armed Forces, but also to increase the presence of Ukrainian defense products in other markets that operate 120-mm guns and actively cooperate with the Turkish defense industry - in particular, the Middle-East countries and South-East Asia.

Should trying from our Leopard 2 to enhance their lethality

No, 100x no.

With the current situation in Ukraine we should not be looking towards them for anything defense related. A lot of their Industry is currently bogged down because of the war. For the longest time, their only munitions plant was located in Eastern Ukraine in land occupied by the Donetsk People's Republic.

There's a reason why Iraq and Indonesia cancelled any further orders for the BTR-4 and why Thailand's T-84 Oplot's delivery was overdue by several years. Ukraine is not a reliable partner for defense needs. If we're looking to do away with Russian goods because of CAATSA, better to look at Poland, the Czech Republic, Slovakia or hell even Israel.

 

[HannibalBarca]

No, 100x no.

With the current situation in Ukraine we should not be looking towards them for anything defense related. A lot of their Industry is currently bogged down because of the war. For the longest time, their only munitions plant was located in Eastern Ukraine in land occupied by the Donetsk People's Republic.

There's a reason why Iraq and Indonesia cancelled any further orders for the BTR-4 and why Thailand's T-84 Oplot's delivery was overdue by several years. Ukraine is not a reliable partner for defense needs. If we're looking to do away with Russian goods because of CAATSA, better to look at Poland, the Czech Republic, Slovakia or hell even Israel.

No if like TR...there is ToT involved...

 

[Chestnut]

No if like TR...there is ToT involved...

I would still rather deal with Turkey directly or any of the aforementioned countries I stated. I have dealt with Ukronoboroprom before and I stand by my statement that we should not be looking towards them for our defense needs at least until AFTER they have settled their own problems with Russia.

 

[HannibalBarca]

I would still rather deal with Turkey directly or any of the aforementioned countries I stated. I have dealt with Ukronoboroprom before and I stand by my statement that we should not be looking towards them for our defense needs at least until AFTER they have settled their own problems with Russia.

Other countries sees such instability as a good thing to Dev their Def industry by acquiring ToT/Rights at a relatively cheap cost... Like TR or Some ME countries etc...
UKR is literally selling off their "stock knowledge" Equipements to fund other projets and gaining market share...

 

[Nike]

Uncategorized
MBDA: a Sea Ceptor for Indonesia?
09/11/2018
At Indo Defence MBDA, the European missile company, is promoting its new Sea Ceptor local area anti-air missile system as a potential retrofit for the Indonesian Navy’s three Bung Tomo class corvettes. Originally the three 95 meters corvettes were designed to receive the VL Sea Wolf, following an agreement signed in 2013, but that did not happen. MBDA is now proposing its new missile system based on the CAMM (Common Anti-air Modular Missile)

Sea Captor system. As demonstrated by the highly successful Type 23 upgrade programme for the British Royal Navy, the Sea Ceptor is a proven and low-risk upgrade option for the Bung Tomo corvettes, its physical dimensions being the same of then planned system, which means that no major modification are required on the units.

The Sea Ceptor has a range of more than 25 km, and uses an active radar seeker (supported by mid-course guidance updates) to deliver an all-embracing capability against multiple targets simultaneously. It also features a novel “soft lunch” technology, where a gas-powered piston propels the missile away from the ship before thrusting it in the direction of flight. Once the low-speed /low-energy turnover is complete, the missile fires its main rocket motor.

The Sea Ceptor has been ordered by the UK Ministry of Defence to replace the VL Sea Wolf on Royal Navy’s type 23 frigates and to equip new Type 26 frigates from build as well as future Type 31 frigates. The system was also ordered by New Zealand and Chile for their respective frigate upgrade programmes.

https://www.edrmagazine.eu/mbda-a-sea-ceptor-for-indonesia

 

[striver44]

Uncategorized
MBDA: a Sea Ceptor for Indonesia?
09/11/2018
At Indo Defence MBDA, the European missile company, is promoting its new Sea Ceptor local area anti-air missile system as a potential retrofit for the Indonesian Navy’s three Bung Tomo class corvettes. Originally the three 95 meters corvettes were designed to receive the VL Sea Wolf, following an agreement signed in 2013, but that did not happen. MBDA is now proposing its new missile system based on the CAMM (Common Anti-air Modular Missile)

Sea Captor system. As demonstrated by the highly successful Type 23 upgrade programme for the British Royal Navy, the Sea Ceptor is a proven and low-risk upgrade option for the Bung Tomo corvettes, its physical dimensions being the same of then planned system, which means that no major modification are required on the units.

The Sea Ceptor has a range of more than 25 km, and uses an active radar seeker (supported by mid-course guidance updates) to deliver an all-embracing capability against multiple targets simultaneously. It also features a novel “soft lunch” technology, where a gas-powered piston propels the missile away from the ship before thrusting it in the direction of flight. Once the low-speed /low-energy turnover is complete, the missile fires its main rocket motor.

The Sea Ceptor has been ordered by the UK Ministry of Defence to replace the VL Sea Wolf on Royal Navy’s type 23 frigates and to equip new Type 26 frigates from build as well as future Type 31 frigates. The system was also ordered by New Zealand and Chile for their respective frigate upgrade programmes.

https://www.edrmagazine.eu/mbda-a-sea-ceptor-for-indonesia

This or vl mica. My bet are on vl mica