Indo-Russian 5th Generation PAK-FA/FGFA is dead

[ChineseTiger1986]

LOL, J-20 and J-31 are already flying and operational for years.

Mass production of J-20 officially starts in 2017.

So, more like 1 or 2 years. Rather than 10 or 15.

The schedule is now moving ahead to 2016, and the engine looks more likely the 191KN WS-15.

Without the WS-15 being ready, the FADEC system is just an empty word.

 

[Slave_to_the_waffle]

You know it is posts like these which create doubt in my mind that whether I am making any useful addition to this forum

You will never make a meaningful or useful contribution to this forum. All good members start out bright eyed and full of enthusiasm and one-by-one become either semi-trolls like @Armstrong - who also left the forum - and @Chinese-Dragon (I still love both of you) or leave the forum like @SvenSvensonov and @Joe Shearer - other quality members like @Oscar or @Nihonjin1051 tone down their contributions. @AUSTERLITZ has too, though he still contributes from time to time. I haven't noticed anything new from Jhungary either.

Oh, and these people can be found here:

Notable Members

They were some of, if not the, best members here.

You simply can't argue with people here, the ignorance is too think. No contribution you make will matter when someone doesn't want to believe or see it. And there's a lot of those people on this forum.

Sorry for being so cynical, but I've lived through this too:

Technogaianist

Transhumanist

Now I don't even bother contributing my knowledge or depth on defense matters, which I'm rather good with being both ex-military and a current defense employee, I simply got burned out by the stupidity that fosters here.

So I play around with @Nihonjin1051 instead.
...

Sorry for being a downer. Escape while you can:

Soon, like this panda cub, you'll never be free.

 

[dadeechi]

You need to cool down!! This fgfa thing is going on for decade...you are talking about one of the most advanced technologies here...no country would hand over it just like that...and money it is upwards of 30 billiondollars this deal!!
If fgfa doesn't work out we'll go for pakfa!!
And I thought you were apolitical...lol I'm so wrong!!
Concentrate on thing that are done!!
Btw...30 billion dollars is big money and more so for Russia!! It wouldn't lose that deal for tantrums...India is and will remain largest market for Russia...China wont buy pakfa from them...any there is not other country that can replace India as market for Russia!!
So keep calm!!
If you are doing this just to blame bjp!! Then no comment ignore my above post!

Russia was offering PAK-FA for sometime now but it was India which has been dragging its feet with excuses like engine/power plant when the primary threat is from China. Do people really believe that the China has better engine tech than Russia? This is where BJP's intentions are suspect and needs to be questioned as conspiracy theories kick in.

I am blaming BJP as they are responsible for this fiasco. It Congress or Communists were responsible, I would have blamed them.

 

[egodoc222]

Let's hope so. BJP has already sacrificed the Indo-Russian relations at the alter of DTTI.



Now the best option for India is to settle the disputes with China and Pakistan ASAP by ceding Arunachal Pradesh and Kashmir. Hopefully this would prevent a war and disintegration of India.



Do you think Putin is going to sell PAK-FA to India with India entering into DTTI by signing the foundational agreements?

Indo-Russian relations are dead.

Are you mad? Reason for the delay is IAF is not happy with the progress and timelines?
What DTTI has to do with it?
IF DTTI was the reason Russia should'nt sell frigates or helis too...right?
You are conveniently leaving those done deals?
DTTI is a recent thing but this deal is in negotiations were on since 2007 so why didn't the previous govt didn't sign it??
Think before you post!!

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

flying and operational has a lot of distance neighbor.
I have some knowledge on metallurgy and from what I have got to learn from
neutral sources chinese are still atleast 15 years away from developing a truly feasible operational safe military thrust engine for
modern fighter jets needing much higher thrust and kj of energy.

I think true teller of a countries ability of scientific prowess's is metallurgy, which ultimately
birth the engines of the Earth and space.China lags behind at least 30 years from US
europe is 15 years away, russians may be a decade ahead in this field, if you want to bring India in then India lags a decade behind chinese but if US is serious in helping India then whatever advances chinese make with russian help USA will simply provide metallurgy help to India to keep pace with chinese.

You think USA will provide India 5th generation technology so that India can keep pace with China?

Now I'm sure you're joking. They won't even let their closest ally Israel BUY F-22's, let alone have the tech.

Whereas J-20 and J-31 have been operational and flying for years, mass production in a year or two.

India's ACMA is still on paper. Yet somehow you will keep pace? Good luck. You can do it if you have a time machine.

 

[ArsalanKhan21]

This most important news this month. It has lot of implications. Developing story. Both Putin and Modi had bad body language.

 

[sathya]

India is going to wait for it , atleast until the new power plant is integrated.

That's what I feel , no need to buy intermediate one as rafale is going to be bought

That also denotes no FGFA only pak fa but a full matured one .

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

You will never make a meaningful or useful contribution to this forum. All good members start out bright eyed and full of enthusiasm and one-by-one become either semi-trolls like @Armstrong - who also left the forum - and @Chinese-Dragon (I still love both of you) or leave the forum like @SvenSvensonov and @Joe Shearer.

Only a semi-troll? I think I surpassed @Armstrong a long time ago in that department.

 

[dadeechi]

You know it is posts like these which create doubt in my mind that whether I am making any useful addition to this forum or if I am a toy in the hands of a clever impostor like you. No offense but I am yet to meet any Indian who has this line of thinking. This part is really amusing :

"Now the best option for India is to settle the disputes with China and Pakistan ASAP by ceding Arunachal Pradesh and Kashmir. Hopefully this would prevent a war and disintegration of India."

What is so amusing? When chips are down you have to cut your losses and move on.

It's are always better to cut off a cancered limb to salvage rest of the body.

 

[kangri]

You think USA will provide India 5th generation technology so that India can keep pace with China?

Now I'm sure you're joking. They won't even let their closest ally Israel BUY F-22's, let alone have the tech.

Whereas J-20 and J-31 have been operational and flying for years, mass production in a year or two.

India's ACMA is still on paper. Yet somehow you will keep pace? Good luck. You can do it if you have a time machine.

USA will never provide 5th gen tech. to India that is given, but I am not talking about new generation tech. but the metallurgy tech. which is obsolete for USA decades back but can help India to built a reliable engine with over 100 kn thrust just to keep pace with a military competitor like china.

 

[egodoc222]

Russia was offering PAK-FA for sometime now but it was India which has been dragging its feet with excuses like engine/power plant when the primary threat is from China. Do people really believe that the China has better engine tech than Russia? This is where BJP's intentions are suspect and needs to be questioned as conspiracy theories kick in.

I am blaming BJP as they are responsible for this fiasco. It Congress or Communists were responsible, I would have blamed them.

Are you saying negotiations fo this deal is since 2years?
Then you are wrong!! It was on since 2007!
The previous govt didn't sign the deal since the Russian didn't agree for r&d deal and also IAF didn't like the progress of the development...so what changed now? For you to blame bjp?
Don't DTTI bullsh!t me!!
If you are apptard just say it...then I rest my case!!

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

USA will never provide 5th gen tech. to India that is given, but I am not talking about new generation tech. but the metallurgy tech. which is obsolete for USA decades back but can help India to built a reliable engine with over 100 kn thrust just to keep pace with a military competitor like china.

China's J-11B's have been flying and inducted with domestic WS-10A turbofan engines (140 kn thrust) since at least 2009.

So again, only if you have a time machine.

 

[dadeechi]

Are you mad? Reason for the delay is IAF is not happy with the progress and timelines?
What DTTI has to do with it?
IF DTTI was the reason Russia should'nt sell frigates or helis too...right?
You are conveniently leaving those done deals?
DTTI is a recent thing but this deal is in negotiations were on since 2007 so why didn't the previous govt didn't sign it??
Think before you post!!

India paid 290 million USD as part of the preliminary design agreement in 2010. India was suppose to close the final deal now.

Show me a worth while deal that BJP government has done with Russia. Compare BJP's performance with Russia and other western countries (US, UK, France, Japan)

 

[egodoc222]

India paid 290 million USD as part of the preliminary design agreement in 2010. India was suppose to close the final deal now.

Show me a worth while deal that BJP government has done with Russia. Compare BJP's performance with Russia and other western countries (US, UK, France, Japan)

So you turned a blind eye on helicopters deal and frigates deal!!
Why?
These deals were dragged for decades by previous governments...!!
Can I know why are you fixated on bjp?
Considering there are 3 1/2 still left in their office!!!

 

[kangri]

China's J-11B's have been flying and inducted with domestic WS-10A turbofan engines (140 kn thrust) since at least 2009.

So again, only if you have a time machine.

buddy I am not here to degrade china or chinese accomplishments rather I like china to advance more,
the chinese engines also had inputs from americans in the beginning few decades back then chinese tried to get ex soviets expertise in this field later russians are milking chinese to max but only early generation AL 31 engines inputs are given to chinese the result is WS series which is basically a mock up of western core with russian metallurgy this makes your WS series with teething problems, low reliability and may be 50% lesser life than even AL 31 series, these engines cant power a true 5th generation fighter the amount of thrust and energy needed for a sensor fused stealth plan is huge, only to reach a basic operational mission chinese wont be able to place a reliable engine in their J-20 in 15 years atleast.