Indo-Russian 5th Generation PAK-FA/FGFA is dead

[mike2000 is back]

India is going to sign the foundational agreements and there would not be any restrictions going forward once DTTI is in place.

India-US friendship would be higher than Himalayas and Deeper than Pacific ocean when it comes to China.

They will be flat as Plains of Poland and Sind and when it comes to Russia and Pakistan.

Shift in strategy: India & US to talk on giving access to each other's military bases - The Economic Times

India and U.S. inch closer to deal on logistics support - The Hindu


@FrenchPilot @PARIKRAMA @knight11 @Abingdonboy @gambit @mike2000 is back @Nihonjin1051 @Taygibay @Blue Marlin @Windjammer @Chinese-Dragon @Syed.Ali.Haider

ahahahah........nice 1.

 

[dadeechi]

Sir, you are partially correct but not all are war mongers.. For example Russia France UK does nt gain anything huge with the subcontinental instability as much as say USA. Reason being each of those countries supply the largest tech to only India whereas USA uses a game of cat n mouse and sells to both India and Pakistan

In other words, USA strive to create a constant need in both sides to go for USA weapons.

Russia, France or UK can say and pass statements saying Pakistan is a probable market yet they don't go for jaw dropping deals or a deal which will create such an instability which will lead to India purchasing a more advanced platform from the same country and kind of have a deterrance angle against it..

Again in war biz, as I said earlier this is what is visible overtly but covertly no one knows what's gng on.. I can tell you about one thing it would be extremely unlikely that France and Russia may do something like USA.. Simply bcz both their economies are not run by war machines mechanisms rather long term relationships based on mutual needs..
That's why you don't see both these countries in every conflict zone.. Yet you will see USA every conflict zone will have a direct overt contact or a covert CIA clandestine ops to support such a conflict for geo political gains..at least history says that...

BTW I am not against USA. Whatever is beneficial to them as a country they should pursue that. If this conflict mechanism benefits them then so be it..

Russia does sell weapons to both China and India.

US actions in SCS have forced China to go for SU-35s from Russia.

US Sale of F-16 to Pakistan in 1983 forced India to go for Mirage-2000s and MIG-29s

French submarine sales to Pakistan and Russian Submarine sales to China has forced India to go for US P-8s

US being the leader takes the first steps in many cases but every step that US takes has also benefited Russia and vice-versa

 

[mike2000 is back]

i think pakistan is not dependant on the usa they have china up north and europe.
dont you think pakistan dont like it when india gets new kit?
no offence here lad but i find pakistan's stance as defensive and have always been india specific and only india specific in most cases whilst india wants to be a world power. why do you need a missile with a range of 10000km?
in regards to terror... lets just say it takes two to tango, neither is innocent, but lets save that for a later thread.

I agree with all your points,except the first one.
Pakistan is still very much dependent on the U.S bro. just like it is on China and to a lesser extent European powers. You just have to know the amount of military aid Pakistan receives from the U.S, i'm not even talking about the help they provide pakistan by carrying out targeted drone strikes against terror groups in Pakistan(things which China can never do for obvious reasons) etc. So yes Pakistan still receive alot of help from the U.S

I agree with you to some extent....To be honest, China has already reached to a league which is beyond the reach of India to even reach in next 50 years..It is the same case both with military, economics and clout over other countries around the world...So even if India buys some FGFA project, it is not going to protect us in any war with China in future...So rather just going ahead with FGFA or any thing with Russia which is not working out well, our leaders should think for long term rather than short term gains....India should invest and focus more and more on self reliance on military front even if you have to take a longer route to self reliance...Otherwise, we will simply going behind so many people...

People suggest to but from US...But to be honest, i feel Russians are at least more reliable than the US when we speak about trusting a partnet...Pakistan is a classic example of how quickly US abandons its ally when you are not of any use to US...So i prefer to either go for France or Germany or stic to Russia....And again, why not even China too if China is ready to business with India to sale certain things which is not really going to change its statergic advantage...

So we need a drastic change in our defense reliance policy which is outdated in 2015..I will certainly see a prospect of securing a less modern warfare weapons from trusted source with technology transfer than the high end stuff from unreliable partner....



Spot on...It is better to rely on China than trusting on a friend like US on the defense related issue.

NNO COUNTRY I REPEAT NO COUNRY IS RELIABLE IN GEOPOLITICS. Its all about interests, the day India's interests changes and it aligns with the U/S/West, then we shall see if Russia will be so friendly towards you.lool
It's not just Russia though every country follows their interests. This x country is 'more reliable' stuff is bullshit. lol

 

[New Resolve]

Achay din waaloun, No choice but to buy Su35 now. Better not buy Rafale either otherwise Russians will not be happy.

 

[wiseone2]

Achay din waaloun, No choice but to buy Su35 now. Better not buy Rafale either otherwise Russians will not be happy.

Russians have sold Su-30 MKIs. The IAF will order more MKI's. That will keep Russians happy.

 

[knight11]

i think pakistan is not dependant on the usa they have china up north and europe.
dont you think pakistan dont like it when india gets new kit?
no offence here lad but i find pakistan's stance as defensive and have always been india specific and only india specific in most cases whilst india wants to be a world power. why do you need a missile with a range of 10000km?
in regards to terror... lets just say it takes two to tango, neither is innocent, but lets save that for a later thread.

Two to tango LOLZ

First the difference India is not the one who is threatening our eastern neighbor with Sabre Ratting of NUKE NUKE on daily basis and vowed to give 1000 cuts. We are not involved in providing moral support and cross border terrorism in their areas.
We are not the one despite been smaller nation have mounted 4 time attack in the past.
And we are not the nation where Indian Army plays a vital role in the political relationship and policies.

Second we are not paranoid like Pakistan to think that China is developing J20, J31, DF21, carriers, weapons against us, because we know they are facing great threat from the western sea.
Comparatively with 1962 experience, if we buy some weapons to counter the threat of the east, why are Pakistani are so paranoid that they are only to used against them.
After all who is going to develop 10000 Missile against Pakistan when it could be done with 250KM range Prithvi.

 

[Ind4Ever]

if India was willing to buy 200+ U.S made F-35s I think it would be possible

India could buy

140 of the F-35A variant
60 of the F-35 B/C variant for India future aircraft carriers

and to set up India to maintain the F-35 and a weapons package you are looking at about $25 billion dollar deal

F35 for Airforce is a crap. India won't buy F35 if at all other options being looked at then it might be F22. PAKFA is not dead. These are stupidity of people in media.

 

[Blue Marlin]

Two to tango LOLZ
1.
First the difference India is not the one who is threatening our eastern neighbor with Sabre Ratting of NUKE NUKE on daily basis and vowed to give 1000 cuts. We are not involved in providing moral support and cross border terrorism in their areas.
We are not the one despite been smaller nation have mounted 4 time attack in the past.
And we are not the nation where Indian Army plays a vital role in the political relationship and policies.

2.
Second we are not paranoid like Pakistan to think that China is developing J20, J31, DF21, carriers, weapons against us, because we know they are facing great threat from the western sea.
Comparatively with 1962 experience, if we buy some weapons to counter the threat of the east, why are Pakistani are so paranoid that they are only to used against them.
After all who is going to develop 10000 Missile against Pakistan when it could be done with 250KM range Prithvi.

1.
is that what nukes are made for? india got nukes because of china and pakistan got nukes because of india? deterrance
the sentance which is bold dont make sense, are you refering to india or pakistan. also india is developing a missile with a range of 10000km

2. why would pakistan be paranoid about the j-20 j-31 ? they are looking for 5th gen fighters most likely the j-31 or the tfx will be with paf

 

[mirage]

Dear I agree to you that Chinese are in better position in many areas now but they are still behind in some areas like engines etc. and in these area they are in contact with Russian and thats the indian concern. Kindly do read the comments on which reply i give my comments.


and have a nice sleep & sweet dreams dear.

bhai sarcasm samajte hain aap ?

 

[Great Sachin]

Russia Offers Cheaper Deal On PAK-FA Fighter To India
It is India's tactics to make the deal cheaper....looks like India is succeeding

 

[dadeechi]

Russia Offers Cheaper Deal On PAK-FA Fighter To India
It is India's tactics to make the deal cheaper....looks like India is succeeding

That's old news that came prior to the summit meeting. There is no deal and will not be at least until the French President's visit is complete. India is waiting for further clarity on the term of the French deal.

 

[Great Sachin]

That's old news that came prior to the summit meeting. There is no deal and will not be at least until the French President's visit is complete. India is waiting for further clarity on the term of the French deal.

I am still stay to what I said

 

[Srinivas]

Can Russia build a 5th generation aircraft ? If India is paying for it we want some assurances they will not sell it to Pakistan

India lags in stealth aircraft design, once we get hands on good design ... we have good collaboration from Israel so we can integrate advanced sensors, missiles and other advanced electronic gadgets.

Russians are good aircraft designers.

5th gen aircraft is all about good stealthy aircraft and advanced "electronics, sensors and missiles".

So the partnership with Russia is a productive one.