Indo-Russian 5th Generation PAK-FA/FGFA is dead

[dadeechi]

I don't think they can go for USA fighters due to restrictions comes with them, with Russians things are not going in right directions (In my view best option for them to make things right), LCA and AMCA both are as far as 5th Gen fighters so they have to go for some 4++ Gen soon and they are left with few options.

India is going to sign the foundational agreements and there would not be any restrictions going forward once DTTI is in place.

India-US friendship would be higher than Himalayas and Deeper than Pacific ocean when it comes to China.

They will be flat as Plains of Poland and Sind and when it comes to Russia and Pakistan.

Shift in strategy: India & US to talk on giving access to each other's military bases - The Economic Times

India and U.S. inch closer to deal on logistics support - The Hindu


@FrenchPilot @PARIKRAMA @knight11 @Abingdonboy @gambit @mike2000 is back @Nihonjin1051 @Taygibay @Blue Marlin @Windjammer @Chinese-Dragon @Syed.Ali.Haider

 

[knight11]

Dear I agree to you that Chinese are in better position in many areas now but they are still behind in some areas like engines etc. and in these area they are in contact with Russian and thats the indian concern. Kindly do read the comments on which reply i give my comments.


and have a nice sleep & sweet dreams dear.

That answer was for someone else who believe such things. I was just repeating their thoughts. Thats all.

 

[Silicon0000]

 

[Blue Marlin]

India is going to sign the foundational agreements and there would not be any restrictions going forward once DTTI is in place.

India-US friendship would be higher than Himalayas and Deeper than Pacific ocean when it comes to China.

They will be flat as Plains of Poland and Sind and when it comes to Russia and Pakistan.

Shift in strategy: India & US to talk on giving access to each other's military bases - The Economic Times

India and U.S. inch closer to deal on logistics support - The Hindu


@FrenchPilot @PARIKRAMA @knight11 @Abingdonboy @gambit @mike2000 is back @Nihonjin1051 @Taygibay @Blue Marlin @Windjammer @Chinese-Dragon @Syed.Ali.Haider

if you think the usa is going to drop pakistan for india then your dreaming.
the usa wants both markets. a good example is that the usa sold apaches to india and vipers to pakistan.
also why is it that indians in particular dont like it when pakistan gets advanced weapons? you dont hear pakistan complaining.

 

[knight11]

India is going to sign the foundational agreements and there would not be any restrictions going forward once DTTI is in place.

India-US friendship would be higher than Himalayas and Deeper than Pacific ocean when it comes to China.

They will be flat as Plains of Poland and Sind and when it comes to Russia and Pakistan.

Shift in strategy: India & US to talk on giving access to each other's military bases - The Economic Times

India and U.S. inch closer to deal on logistics support - The Hindu


@FrenchPilot @PARIKRAMA @knight11 @Abingdonboy @gambit @mike2000 is back @Nihonjin1051 @Taygibay @Blue Marlin @Windjammer @Chinese-Dragon @Syed.Ali.Haider

All Speculations will end with two things

1. FGFA or F-35

2. S400 or THAAD

if you think the usa is going to drop pakistan for india then your dreaming.
the usa wants both markets. a good example is that the usa sold apaches to india and vipers to pakistan.
also why is it that indians in particular dont like it when pakistan gets advanced weapons? you dont hear pakistan complaining.

No body is dreaming that USA is dropping Pakistan, infact we want USA to hold Pakistan Tight.

Now for that I am confused , Pakistan wants US weapons, and some pakistani complain they are selling us block 60, and some complain they are selling us sanctions with them.

Indian's don't like it because whenever Pakistan came into the better military position and the chance, that he had strike India, in the past namely 1965, 1971, Kargil war. All started by Pakistan, and have used its victim cards too quickly, that India is the aggressor, and want to destroy Pakistan. For Decades they are sending terrorist, supporting the arm rebellion in Punjab and then later Kashmir, now crying for RAW involvement and responsible for the mess they produced in their country.

 

[Silicon0000]

India is going to sign the foundational agreements and there would not be any restrictions going forward once DTTI is in place.

India-US friendship would be higher than Himalayas and Deeper than Pacific ocean when it comes to China.

They will be flat as Plains of Poland and Sind and when it comes to Russia and Pakistan.

Shift in strategy: India & US to talk on giving access to each other's military bases - The Economic Times

India and U.S. inch closer to deal on logistics support - The Hindu

Don't think US is gonna be like Russian. For Russain you are like a friend and for US you are just a friend with benefit.

 

[dadeechi]

if you think the usa is going to drop pakistan for india then your dreaming.
the usa wants both markets. a good example is that the usa sold apaches to india and vipers to pakistan.
also why is it that indians in particular dont like it when pakistan gets advanced weapons? you dont hear pakistan complaining.

I never stated that US is going to drop Pakistan rather I have stated neither US is going to drop Pakistan nor India is going to drop Russia when I said "They will be flat as Plains of Poland and Sind and when it comes to Russia and Pakistan."

Does India's complains matter? US is selling equipment to Pakistan in spite of India's objections. Most of the time India complains as a negotiating tactic than expecting results.

Don't think US is gonna be like Russian. For Russain you are like a friend and for US you are just a friend with benefit.

People do make new friends.

 

[Kaniska]

India shouldn't have been so late in ordering F-35's, since they will be at the back of the queue, meaning it might take another decade to get them.

China should be starting mass production of J-20 in 2017, but I don't think India has anything to fear unless they plan to start another Forward Policy.

Might as well focus on your indigenous capabilities while China is still juggling a ton of issues on our plate.

We'll be super busy at least until 2020, which is when our current economic and military reforms will be mostly complete.

I agree with you to some extent....To be honest, China has already reached to a league which is beyond the reach of India to even reach in next 50 years..It is the same case both with military, economics and clout over other countries around the world...So even if India buys some FGFA project, it is not going to protect us in any war with China in future...So rather just going ahead with FGFA or any thing with Russia which is not working out well, our leaders should think for long term rather than short term gains....India should invest and focus more and more on self reliance on military front even if you have to take a longer route to self reliance...Otherwise, we will simply going behind so many people...

People suggest to but from US...But to be honest, i feel Russians are at least more reliable than the US when we speak about trusting a partnet...Pakistan is a classic example of how quickly US abandons its ally when you are not of any use to US...So i prefer to either go for France or Germany or stic to Russia....And again, why not even China too if China is ready to business with India to sale certain things which is not really going to change its statergic advantage...

So we need a drastic change in our defense reliance policy which is outdated in 2015..I will certainly see a prospect of securing a less modern warfare weapons from trusted source with technology transfer than the high end stuff from unreliable partner....

Don't think US is gonna be like Russian. For Russain you are like a friend and for US you are just a friend with benefit.

Spot on...It is better to rely on China than trusting on a friend like US on the defense related issue.

 

[Silicon0000]

I agree with you to some extent....To be honest, China has already reached to a league which is beyond the reach of India to even reach in next 50 years..It is the same case both with military, economics and clout over other countries around the world...So even if India buys some FGFA project, it is not going to protect us in any war with China in future...So rather just going ahead with FGFA or any thing with Russia which is not working out well, our leaders should think for long term rather than short term gains....India should invest and focus more and more on self reliance on military front even if you have to take a longer route to self reliance...Otherwise, we will simply going behind so many people...

People suggest to but from US...But to be honest, i feel Russians are at least more reliable than the US when we speak about trusting a partnet...Pakistan is a classic example of how quickly US abandons its ally when you are not of any use to US...So i prefer to either go for France or Germany or stic to Russia....And again, why not even China too if China is ready to business with India to sale certain things which is not really going to change its statergic advantage...

So we need a drastic change in our defense reliance policy which is outdated in 2015..I will certainly see a prospect of securing a less modern warfare weapons from trusted source with technology transfer than the high end stuff from unreliable partner....

I think India should go for some JV with Japan also. Thats the best option they have right now along with Russian.

 

[PARIKRAMA]

Peace between India and Pakistan is not in US vital interest. Similarly the conflict creation mechanism of USA or the war mechanism is readying multiple fronts of war or war mongering overtly or covertly over many places. Whether its South China, Middle east, ISIS, Iraq, Afghanistan, Vietnam or political proxies of shadow boxing by propping India vs China or India vs Pakistan...

For weapons business folks, War is the biggest business.. The fear of war itself creates a huge opportunity for capitalist markets to provide weapons for a good margin and establish themselves as niche reliable weapon supplier.. They are then termed as allies or strategic friends..

 

[Blue Marlin]

All Speculations will end with two things
No body is dreaming that USA is dropping Pakistan, infact we want USA to hold Pakistan Tight.

Now for that I am confused , Pakistan wants US weapons, and some pakistani complain they are selling us block 60, and some complain they are selling us sanctions with them.

Indian's don't like it because whenever Pakistan came into the better military position and the chance, that he had strike India, in the past namely 1965, 1971, Kargil war. All started by Pakistan, and have used its victim cards too quickly, that India is the aggressor, and want to destroy Pakistan. For Decades they are sending terrorist, supporting the arm rebellion in Punjab and then later Kashmir, now crying for RAW involvement and responsible for the mess they produced in their country.

i think pakistan is not dependant on the usa they have china up north and europe.
dont you think pakistan dont like it when india gets new kit?
no offence here lad but i find pakistan's stance as defensive and have always been india specific and only india specific in most cases whilst india wants to be a world power. why do you need a missile with a range of 10000km?
in regards to terror... lets just say it takes two to tango, neither is innocent, but lets save that for a later thread.

 

[Kaniska]

I think India should go for some JV with Japan also. Thats the best option they have right now along with Russian.

I am not sure..Although Japan is a good friend of India but again, it is a good friend with many other countries too...Russia and India relationship is very unique and it is difficult to get replaced so easily with any one. At best Russia can be replaced with a combination of France, Japan and Israel..But the tricky situation is that all those countries are always listen to unclesam when it comes to defense related thing.

 

[Silicon0000]

I am not sure..Although Japan is a good friend of India but again, it is a good friend with many other countries too...Russia and India relationship is very unique and it is difficult to get replaced so easily with any one. At best Russia can be replaced with a combination of France, Japan and Israel..But the tricky situation is that all those countries are always listen to unclesam when it comes to defense related thing.

I am saying Japan along with Russia not in place of Russia.

India might look Japan in place of US. France, German etc has their own position.

 

[dadeechi]

Peace between India and Pakistan is not in US vital interest. Similarly the conflict creation mechanism of USA or the war mechanism is readying multiple fronts of war or war mongering overtly or covertly over many places. Whether its South China, Middle east, ISIS, Iraq, Afghanistan, Vietnam or political proxies of shadow boxing by propping India vs China or India vs Pakistan...

For weapons business folks, War is the biggest business.. The fear of war itself creates a huge opportunity for capitalist markets to provide weapons for a good margin and establish themselves as niche reliable weapon supplier.. They are then termed as allies or strategic friends..

In that sense Russia, US, France, UK, Germany are the true allies in creating the divisions and fear to make money.

 

[PARIKRAMA]

In that sense Russia, US, France, UK, Germany are the true allies in creating the divisions and fear to make money.

Sir, you are partially correct but not all are war mongers.. For example Russia France UK does nt gain anything huge with the subcontinental instability as much as say USA. Reason being each of those countries supply the largest tech to only India whereas USA uses a game of cat n mouse and sells to both India and Pakistan

In other words, USA strive to create a constant need in both sides to go for USA weapons.

Russia, France or UK can say and pass statements saying Pakistan is a probable market yet they don't go for jaw dropping deals or a deal which will create such an instability which will lead to India purchasing a more advanced platform from the same country and kind of have a deterrance angle against it..

Again in war biz, as I said earlier this is what is visible overtly but covertly no one knows what's gng on.. I can tell you about one thing it would be extremely unlikely that France and Russia may do something like USA.. Simply bcz both their economies are not run by war machines mechanisms rather long term relationships based on mutual needs..
That's why you don't see both these countries in every conflict zone.. Yet you will see USA every conflict zone will have a direct overt contact or a covert CIA clandestine ops to support such a conflict for geo political gains..at least history says that...

BTW I am not against USA. Whatever is beneficial to them as a country they should pursue that. If this conflict mechanism benefits them then so be it..