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India's Nuclear Agreement

I am again saying that the deal was not discussed in sense of nationalistic context of bad mouthing about neighbors. Obviously there were bound to have references in terms of how the nuclear deterrent will be kept what happens if neighbors do testing and all? but overall the debate was more about how the deal will help india in progressing.
 
Ok sorry for being away:


Always:

India get their cake and eat it too - yes, it's a huge plus - but that's not what we are talking about - our conversation was about why the Indian govt presented the deal in a hyper nationalistic context bad mouthing China and Pakistan -- in a earlier page there is a piece by an former Indian ambassador, in which he suggests that the reason for the nationalist context was to preempt criticism and shape the coming political debate.

I agree with you on this. The public in Asia is very emotional and if the debate did not centre around Pakistan or China the comman Indian man and the politicians will not understand it. I hope the US Congress does not ratify this unfair deal.

Regards
 
The point where the consensus is there is that we have a sovereign right to test. Nothing less then that. And NSG has accepted it.

NSG did not accept it but it was the arm twisting Bush who accepted it and got it passed. Even Russia and France both staunch allies of India have never succeeded in such stupidity.

Regards
 
I agree with you on this. The public in Asia is very emotional and if the debate did not centre around Pakistan or China the comman Indian man and the politicians will not understand it. I hope the US Congress does not ratify this unfair deal.

Regards

I don't think US congress will stop this deal because it will be not a good news for the business opportunities presented by the deal.
 
NSG did not accept it but it was the arm twisting Bush who accepted it and got it passed. Even Russia and France both staunch allies of India have never succeeded in such stupidity.

Regards

Now this is twisting of words NSG has ratified the document that is all matters.
 
Look guys - I'm reproducing from Ambassador Bharadkumar piece, now is the ambassador not stating facts? is his analysis less than compelling? Does the ambassador have a secret agenda??


l Security Advisor M K Narayanan made an astounding claim in a television interview on Saturday that "divine intervention" might have secured for the country a "waiver" from the Nuclear Suppliers' Group (NSG)… He then went on to launch a tirade against China, alleging Beijing tried to spoil India's party at Vienna. He said India was taken by surprise by the Chinese doublespeak since Chinese President Hu Jintao and Premier Wen Jiabao had assured the Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh that Beijing would play a constructive role when the issue of the "waiver" for India came up for consideration in Vienna.

He lamented India's misfortune to have countries like China as neighbors. "We cannot choose our neighbors. We have China and Pakistan as neighbors…

The timing of the broadside is intriguing. It stands to reason that Yang's visit would have provided a splendid opportunity for Delhi to do some plain-speaking with the Chinese one-to-one. India's veteran External Affairs Minister Pranab Mukherjee could have ably done that. Yet Delhi chose to go ballistic…

A spate of Indian media reports have since appeared based on government "leaks", thumb-sketching behind-the-scene efforts by Chinese diplomats to somehow scuttle a NSG consensus decision on Saturday…

All said, therefore, the Indian government's decision to whip up a degree of public frenzy over China has been deliberate and well-conceived. To be sure, a powerful imagery has been conjured up: Hindu Gods spiking the Chinese dragon. The thesis is that China worked hard at the NSG to obtain a similar waiver for it close ally Pakistan. As proof, the government has given to the media a statement by Yang, "It is also China's hope that the NSG would equally address the aspirations of all parties for the peaceful use of nuclear power while adhering to the nuclear non-proliferation mechanism." The corporate media eagerly lapped up the China-bashing. The large anti-China lobby in the strategic community in Delhi promptly acquiesced with "expert" opinion

The government's purpose has been well-served. The public attention has been almost entirely deflected from the core issue: What is the additional price that Washington has extracted from Delhi for obtaining this NSG waiver? The government struck with immaculate timing just as misgivings were beginning to be voiced in India that Delhi paid a high price to get the NSG waiver.

The statement contained an innocuous reference to India's commitment to observe a moratorium on nuclear testing. At first glance, it seemed Mukherjee was only restating India's stance. But as it turned out, the resonance was directed towards Vienna and the NSG waiver was forthcoming on its "basis".

Clearly, the NSG waiver was neither "clean" nor "unconditional" as Delhi claimed but instead signified yet another surrender of national sovereignty. The waiver has converted India's voluntary moratorium on testing into a multilateral commitment. Effectively, India has now agreed that any fuel supply agreement for its imported reactors will be subject to regular NSG review, while restrictions remain on India gaining access to uranium enrichment and reprocessing technologies and India's nuclear facilities come under the safeguards of the International Atomic Energy Agency [IAEA] in perpetuity.

In other words, India has been virtually brought within the ambit of the CTBT and NPT. India has given an open-ended commitment to abide by all NSG guidelines, including any future changes that the body may make in its guidelines, while India cannot participate in the NSG decision-making as such. In overall terms, India's nuclear program will be brought under US monitoring and control

This is where an orchestrated diversionary tactic becomes useful for the Indian government. By projecting China's perceived unfriendliness, Delhi insinuates that India has been left with no option but to proceed on the present track of forging a strategic partnership with the US. The Indian government's submission to the domestic opinion is that Chinese unfriendliness as manifest yet again at Vienna last weekend provides the raison d'etre for what Delhi has embarked on with the US.

Indians are a deeply nationalistic people. When a Chinese threat is invoked - and, that too, in combination with the Pakistani - as the rationale of US-India strategic partnership, the Indian public really has no choice but to rally behind the government's current policies. Dissenters will be simply branded as "anti-nationals" - or worse still, "Chinese agents". It is a shrewd strategy, as it deflects criticism regarding the matrix of US-India relationship as such, which is an unequal partnership where India is bound to end up playing the role of a junior partner


Can you see what I driving at? Do you not think that elements in this piece will show as element sin the debates to come??
 
NSG did not accept it but it was the arm twisting Bush who accepted it and got it passed. Even Russia and France both staunch allies of India have never succeeded in such stupidity.

Regards

Because .............If you want this deal then US has to be on board......without US, Russia and France can not even think abt it and vice versa.....The deal became reality because India is having a good relationship with both camps...US and Russia .
 
Now this is twisting of words NSG has ratified the document that is all matters.

I know the text will show that NSG approved it after a consensus but come one even as an Indian you know the drama that went on behind the screens as well as even in your parliament.

I will wait till the US Congress approves it and not take anything for granted as when it comes to non bi-partisan issues the US Congressman have their own values, So I suggest dont count your chickens before they hatch.

Anyway even India misuses this deal the benefits to the comman man will be there for all to see in 5-10 years. Inaway the benefit I see is that your plants will be much safer now since you can buy state of art technologies.

Regards
 
Look guys - I'm reproducing from Ambassador Bharadkumar piece, now is the ambassador not stating facts? is his analysis less than compelling? Does the ambassador have a secret agenda??


lCan you see what I driving at? Do you not think that elements in this piece will show as element sin the debates to come??


Dear Muse,

Lets agree for a moment that maybe the Indian are raising the China bogey in this case (they cant raise the Pakistani bogey in this case) however there is no doubt that the Chinese were very sure that countries like Austria etc would block this agreement without them showing their hand however they did not contend with Bush personally getting involved and hence the Chinese had to agree or spoil relations with India.

Regards
 
I know the text will show that NSG approved it after a consensus but come one even as an Indian you know the drama that went on behind the screens as well as even in your parliament.

I will wait till the US Congress approves it and not take anything for granted as when it comes to non bi-partisan issues the US Congressman have their own values, So I suggest dont count your chickens before they hatch.

Anyway even India misuses this deal the benefits to the comman man will be there for all to see in 5-10 years. Inaway the benefit I see is that your plants will be much safer now since you can buy state of art technologies.

Regards

well our plants are already very safe....and we havent seen any major accident so far..........the deal is specifically for the Urenium.....And certainly it would help India in improving its techenological skills.
 
well our plants are already very safe....and we havent seen any major accident so far..........the deal is specifically for the Urenium.....And certainly it would help India in improving its techenological skills.

Russians thought their plants were safe so did the Japanese and the US and all had accidents so dont get cocky.

Regards
 
I know the text will show that NSG approved it after a consensus but come one even as an Indian you know the drama that went on behind the screens as well as even in your parliament.

I will wait till the US Congress approves it and not take anything for granted as when it comes to non bi-partisan issues the US Congressman have their own values, So I suggest dont count your chickens before they hatch.

Anyway even India misuses this deal the benefits to the comman man will be there for all to see in 5-10 years. Inaway the benefit I see is that your plants will be much safer now since you can buy state of art technologies.

Regards

See the point is India has got the nuclear deal approved via NSG, now if US congress does not clears it only the US companies will be on loss because of it. Indian plants are pretty much safe when you heard of any disaster anyway? India is going to use the deal for getting uranium for generation of electricity nothing else. The deal is more like the opening of economy in 1991 when India isolation with world economy ended and this deal is breaking of the regime created to stop india and it ended the nuclear isolation. These are far fetched decision and the results will start appearing in 3-4 years time in a big way.
 
Bush personally twisted arms while the meeting was going on? news to me.

Bringing India in to CTBT, NPT and the larger alliance may well find favor in sections of Indian society, but it remains to be seen if this does not polarize the society and it's politics.
 
Russians thought their plants were safe so did the Japanese and the US and all had accidents so dont get cocky.

Regards

he is not getting cocky he is just saying that india is operating nuclear plants for a long time and not face any incident
 
Bringing India in to CTBT, NPT and the larger alliance may well find favor in sections of Indian society, but it remains to be seen if this does not polarize the society and it's politics.

I am not understanding what you are trying to say here can you please elaborate.
 
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