India's Missile Defenses Can Now Take On Decoys. That's a Really Big Deal

[Vijyes Yechury]

harder to discriminate warhead with decoys only radar, you need dedicated IR sat lites to discriminates real warhead/decoys just like USA does @Vijyes Yechury

And how about thermal/heat deaths is far more then blast radius @Vijyes Yechury

Satellites can't work that quickly as transmission and reception time is a problem for GE and LEO satellite orbit too fast to be there on time. Radar is the way to intercept, not satellite. There will always be multiple radars to accurately find the path ad speed.

Thermal death and blast wave death is what I am saying as 50k and 1.5lakh. People who stay in RCC houses are unlikely to bu fully hit. Heat wave does not hit those who are in shelter but only those who are exposed to open. The blast wave hits people and makes roofs collapse. So, that is the rough death toll and additional injury

 

[Ultima Thule]

You a work in call centre if you want, may be as cleaner of call centre toilet. I am not interested

don't involved in personal insults you could be banned @Vijyes Yechury

 

[khanmubashir]

Moron, it is the norm that the weight of the bomb upto 1MT from 200kT weighs almost as much as the number of tons. It is a rough estimate. The actual weight can range from 1ton to 1.5ton for the RV.

Check the tonnage of USA RVs to understand how the weight is correlated to the power.

Check USA W49 having 1.4MT power and 1.5ton weight nuclear bomb of 1962, after which USA reduced MT bombs and started making 100-500kT warheads. The warheads like W62, W76 etc have the rough ratio of 1kg per 1kT. I don't know why this is.

So, unless you are some genius who has more intelligence and can tell me what is the realistic weight of 1.5MT bomb, stop acting smart.

You a work in call centre if you want, may be as cleaner of call centre toilet. I am not interested

Wow looks like u troll have alot of time in call center u even jump onto comments not directed at u a written page long explanation for your stupidity

 

[Vijyes Yechury]

don't involved in personal insults you could be banned @Vijyes Yechury

OK, I was just responding to other person saying that I work in call centre

Wow looks like u troll have alot of time in call center u even jump onto comments not directed at u a written page long explanation for your stupidity

I was the only one who said 1.5ton weight for 1.5MT. So, it was clear whom it was directed at.

 

[Fawadqasim1]

Radars can detect the speed of warheads or objects. This is how planes use BVRAAM to shoot down enemy planes. Distance can be detected by radar and the continual changing of distance gives speed. So, when the lighter decoys fall slowly, radar can easily find out that the fastest ones are the real warheads.


Blast radius for Nagasaki bomb is 300metres 1.5MT is 75 times bigger and hence will have radius of cuberoot(75)x0.3 km = 1.25km

Even with 1.5MT warhead, the blast radius will be 1.25km and area is pi*r^2 3.14*1.25*1.25 = 5 sqkm. The number of people per sqkm is 11000 in delhi. So, 1.5MT bomb will destroy 55000 people. Since destruction will not be 100% due to several factors like buildings etc coming in the way, it will be little less. The additional damage may be around the same at about 1.5lakh more people dead. Injury may be 3 lakh.

Total is about 2 lakh death and 3 lakh major injury per bomb in delhi. If the bombs overlap each other, the death toll in total will be far less as same area will be destroyed twice. The toll will be far less if other areas are targeted.

I will give images of Nagasaki and Hiroshima:

What you see here is that the wooden houses were destroyed but the brick and concrete ones survived. In Japan the wooden houses were popular due to frequent earthquakes and hence there were significant casualty. With modern brick houses, effect will be minimal
Here is images of Syria and Afghanistan where no nukes were used:


Syria:

Afghanistan:

If we want to destroy delhi totally than we may use more 10 15 20

 

[Ultima Thule]

Satellites can't work that quickly as transmission and reception time is a problem for GE and LEO satellite orbit too fast to be there on time. Radar is the way to intercept, not satellite. There will always be multiple radars to accurately find the path ad speed.

So why USA using dedicated IR satellites for detecting/discriminating actual warheads, no satellites using radio up/down links, so transmission/reception time doesn't matters, because radio waves travels at light speed which is roughly 186,000 miles/sec/300,000 KM/sec so distance doesn't matter for satellites whether its in GEO or LEO @Vijyes Yechury

 

[randomradio]

AAD intercepts within an altitude of less than 30km. PDV does it at altitude of 50-80km. So, if the missile is released at 400km, then it will still take some time to reach 30km and by then, the radar will detect it.

Forget it. He doesn't know what a Terminal BMD is.

All the MIRV circus is already complete long before interception is expected to take place. And if they are talking about using MIRVs against a target as close as Delhi, then the Ababeel has to be lobbed so high up that the radar will have a field day watching the MIRVs separate and move to different trajectories. Whether we can actually intercept something that's lobbed that high with PDV or AAD is a different story, but not a real problem for the radar itself to calculate the impact points.

The higher you go, the faster you fall, but it also takes longer time, so more time for the radar to do its work.

MIRVs are better used against cities in South India, but that's where the Phase 2 comes in.

But you are overestimating the power of nuclear bomb. 1-1.5 MT is not enough to attack 1100 sqkm of delhi. No matter what you do, you can't kill too many people with 1 bomb. Population density of delhi is 11000. So, even if you wipe out 3 sqkm, it will still be 30-40k at most. The radius of Nagasaki bomb was 300m and 1MT will be cube root of 50 times 300m which is about 1km radius. In a circle, we can say pixr^2 = 3.2sqkm for 1MT bomb. Add a little for 1.5MT bomb.

So, the damage from 3 bomb will be 1.5lakh on delhi. The additional injury can be 4-5lakh. So, total of say 6lakh. The 2004 Tsunami itself caused massive damage, 2013 Uttarakhand floods caused damage to several tens of thousands to over a lakh. Yet we live as nothing happened.

Casualties will be in the millions for a 200kT bomb because of overpressure.

Just use the NukeMap.
https://nuclearsecrecy.com/nukemap/

 

[Vijyes Yechury]

Nuke map is not correct. It does not us proper datapoints to make calculations. Nukes are overhyped by these kind of liberal and cowardly people just to scare people from fighting. The real destruction is seen in real tests and that is not large enough.

Casualties will be in the millions for a 200kT bomb because of overpressure.

 

[LeGenD]

Blast radius for Nagasaki bomb is 300metres 1.5MT is 75 times bigger and hence will have radius of cuberoot(75)x0.3 km = 1.25km

Even with 1.5MT warhead, the blast radius will be 1.25km and area is pi*r^2 3.14*1.25*1.25 = 5 sqkm. The number of people per sqkm is 11000 in delhi. So, 1.5MT bomb will destroy 55000 people. Since destruction will not be 100% due to several factors like buildings etc coming in the way, it will be little less. The additional damage may be around the same at about 1.5lakh more people dead. Injury may be 3 lakh.

Total is about 2 lakh death and 3 lakh major injury per bomb in delhi. If the bombs overlap each other, the death toll in total will be far less as same area will be destroyed twice. The toll will be far less if other areas are targeted.

I will give images of Nagasaki and Hiroshima:

What you see here is that the wooden houses were destroyed but the brick and concrete ones survived. In Japan the wooden houses were popular due to frequent earthquakes and hence there were significant casualty. With modern brick houses, effect will be minimal
Here is images of Syria and Afghanistan where no nukes were used:


Syria:

Afghanistan:

Oh dear.

I am not sure what kind of weed you are smoking but a nuclear weapon is the most destructive form of explosive out there. Your underestimates are erroneous.

The 15 KT atomic bomb (Little Boy) - which was dropped over Hiroshima - killed 80,000 people in the city [immediately]. Among the survivors, 60,000 succumbed to significant injuries, burns and radioactive sickness some days later. Additional number of survivors (i.e. 40,000) died over the course of months. 200,000 people died due to Hiroshima-related incident by 1950.

Only very heavy masonry structures were standing after the explosion but each suffered extensive damage and was not safe to inhabit afterwards. People inside these structures, also perished due to excessive heat, injuries and/or suffocation.

Urban areas contain many objects that can become airborne, and the destruction of buildings generates many more. The collapse of the structure above can crush or suffocate those caught inside. Serious injury or death can also occur from impact after being thrown through the air.

Blast effects on a concrete building at Hiroshima.

Source: http://www.atomicarchive.com/Effects/effects5.shtml

Additional examples below:-

Roasted carcasses to say the least. And you think that people would be safe in them?

Aerial view of the destruction in Hiroshima:-

---

The blast itself kills as many as it can, but the resultant blast wave travels much further and destroy much more accordingly. Radiation compounds the problem on top because it infects everything from survivors to structures caught in the blast wave. Additional effects include numerous objects catching fires and EMP which will kill electronics and communications. And anybody who is foolish enough to explore the ruins and/or want to take a look from the immediate surroundings, would be risking radioactive sickness.

Destruction of the atomic bomb notwithstanding, psychological implications would be severe. Back in the days of World War II, people didn't knew much about the power and effects of atomic bombs; this is not the case today. A nuclear strike will trigger mass exodus of potential survivors from the affected city and its immediate surroundings due to the fear of radioactive contamination, non-functioning electronics and meltdown of services.

Now imagine 100 [Little Boy type] nuclear weapons striking different parts of India. So many nuclear explosions - occurring in short order - will produce a new effect besides the usual stuff: atmospheric poisoning.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/0004698186901149
https://physicstoday.scitation.org/doi/10.1063/1.3047679

India will seize to exist as a functioning economy and society; situation on the ground will be chaotic due to collapse of Law & Order, and survivors will fight each other for access to dwindling supplies.

Why do you think that your leaders are investing in BMDS programs? They understand the bigger picture: Pakistan have sufficient nuclear arsenal to ruin India.

---

Little Boy and Fat Man were inefficient 1st generation single-stage fission solid core designs. US and USSR tested scores of nuclear weapons over the course of years, and have produced incredibly powerful and efficient designs with experience.

US tested a 2nd generation two-stage fission-fusion 15 MT hydrogen bomb in the Bikini Atoll sector of the Marshall Islands in 1954 which contaminated 11,265 square KM with its radioactive fallout. FYI: https://newint.org/features/2008/06/01/nuclear-weapons-history

People are reluctant to go back to Marshall Islands even today: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/02/bikini-atoll-nuclear-test-60-years

Extreme yields are excellent for contaminating large portions of territory but do not necessarily make for an effective weapon against extremely hardened/deeply buried targets. Modern generation of nuclear weapons are about efficiency in design, accuracy in delivery and sufficient kinetic punch against high value targets; US have optimized its existing generation of nuclear warheads to achieve precision strikes and defeat extremely hardened/deeply buried targets with burst-height compensating super-fuze modification.

https://nationalinterest.org/blog/t...he-big-upgrade-americas-nuclear-arsenal-22765
https://thebulletin.org/2017/03/how...ity-the-burst-height-compensating-super-fuze/
https://fas.org/blogs/security/2017/03/super-fuze/
http://analysans.net/w76-1mk4a-trident-ii-super-fuze-and-strategic-stability/

---

Terminator 2 movie depict the destructive power of a modern American/Russian nuclear warhead (> 300 KT) in brilliant manner:

 

[amardeep mishra]

The two known sites are Pali and Alwar, both in Rajasthan. That's the centre of the circles I've drawn. More sites may come up later.

There is one more, however since that hasnt been released to public yet, I will leave it at that. Thanks. Btw, that site is different from the two you've mentioned above.

 

[LeGenD]

Satellites can't work that quickly as transmission and reception time is a problem for GE and LEO satellite orbit too fast to be there on time. Radar is the way to intercept, not satellite. There will always be multiple radars to accurately find the path ad speed.

You need to learn about American SBIRS network (including STSS) and its role in ballistic missile tracking and midcourse discrimination process for the GMD; you will get the memo after careful deliberations.

 

[Vijyes Yechury]

Oh dear.

I am not sure what kind of weed you are smoking but a nuclear weapon is the most destructive form of explosive out there. Your underestimates are erroneous.

The 15 KT atomic bomb (Little Boy) - which was dropped over Hiroshima - killed 80,000 people in the city [immediately]. Among the survivors, 60,000 succumbed to significant injuries, burns and radioactive sickness some days later. Additional number of survivors (i.e. 40,000) died over the course of months. 200,000 people died due to Hiroshima-related incident by 1950.

Only very heavy masonry structures were standing after the explosion but each suffered extensive damage and was not safe to inhabit afterwards. People inside these structures, also perished due to excessive heat, injuries and/or suffocation.

Urban areas contain many objects that can become airborne, and the destruction of buildings generates many more. The collapse of the structure above can crush or suffocate those caught inside. Serious injury or death can also occur from impact after being thrown through the air.

Blast effects on a concrete building at Hiroshima.

Source: http://www.atomicarchive.com/Effects/effects5.shtml

Additional examples below:-

Roasted carcasses to say the least. And you think that people would be safe in them?

Aerial view of the destruction in Hiroshima:-

---

The blast itself kills as many as it can, but the resultant blast wave travels much further and destroy much more accordingly. Radiation compounds the problem on top because it infects everything from survivors to structures caught in the blast wave. Additional effects include numerous objects catching fires and EMP which will kill electronics and communications. And anybody who is foolish enough to explore the ruins and/or want to take a look from the immediate surroundings, would be risking radioactive sickness.

Destruction of the atomic bomb notwithstanding, psychological implications would be severe. Back in the days of World War II, people didn't knew much about the power and effects of atomic bombs; this is not the case today. A nuclear strike will trigger mass exodus of potential survivors from the affected city and its immediate surroundings due to the fear of radioactive contamination, non-functioning electronics and meltdown of services.

Now imagine 100 [Little Boy type] nuclear weapons striking different parts of India. So many nuclear explosions - occurring in short order - will produce a new effect besides the usual stuff: atmospheric poisoning.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/0004698186901149
https://physicstoday.scitation.org/doi/10.1063/1.3047679

India will seize to exist as a functioning economy and society; situation on the ground will be chaotic due to collapse of Law & Order, and survivors will fight each other for access to dwindling supplies.

Why do you think that your leaders are investing in BMDS programs? They understand the bigger picture: Pakistan have sufficient nuclear arsenal to ruin India.

---

Little Boy and Fat Man were inefficient 1st generation single-stage fission solid core designs. US and USSR tested scores of nuclear weapons over the course of years, and have produced incredibly powerful and efficient designs with experience.

US tested a 2nd generation two-stage fission-fusion 15 MT hydrogen bomb in the Bikini Atoll sector of the Marshall Islands in 1954 which contaminated 11,265 square KM with its radioactive fallout. FYI: https://newint.org/features/2008/06/01/nuclear-weapons-history

People are reluctant to go back to Marshall Islands even today: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/02/bikini-atoll-nuclear-test-60-years

Extreme yields are excellent for contaminating large portions of territory but do not necessarily make for an effective weapon against extremely hardened/deeply buried targets. Modern generation of nuclear weapons are about efficiency in design, accuracy in delivery and sufficient kinetic punch against high value targets; US have optimized its existing generation of nuclear warheads to achieve precision strikes and defeat extremely hardened/deeply buried targets with burst-height compensating super-fuze modification.

https://nationalinterest.org/blog/t...he-big-upgrade-americas-nuclear-arsenal-22765
https://thebulletin.org/2017/03/how...ity-the-burst-height-compensating-super-fuze/
https://fas.org/blogs/security/2017/03/super-fuze/
http://analysans.net/w76-1mk4a-trident-ii-super-fuze-and-strategic-stability/

---

Terminator 2 movie depict the destructive power of a modern American/Russian nuclear warhead (> 300 KT) in brilliant manner:

Firstly, in India, the wooden houses are almost 0 and most houses are masonry based. Even poor people live in brick houses with sheet roof. So, the destruction level of Nagasaki will be limited. The ability to wipe out entire cities by just few nukes is just fantasy. Nuclear bomb, whatever power it may have, is still far less powerful than things like volcanic explosion, cyclones etc. The nukes cause more damage than other bombs but are not all destroyer

The bunker buster nukes exist but they need precision strike. Simple drop bombs or ballistic missiles will not work. So, nukes are not used for bunker busters in general due to difficulty in getting precision strike.

Nuclear bombs are very powerful compared to all other bombs, but the effects must not be exaggerated. The radiation contamination of 11000 sqkm is a myth and that is exactly why people begin to distrust these news. One must not exaggerate things beyond a point. Atmospheric poisoning is nonsense and does not exist in real life. The radioactivity is also very limited and generally associated with the immediate bast wave. Even 10-15 minutes after blast wave, the radioactivity will be very low and sustainable levels.


PS: Never give opinions, analysis of experts etc as data. They are the opinions and fantasasies of people, not actual evidence. No matter what the credentials of the writer, actual statistics is very important and is not substitutable by opinions

 

[aman_rai0007]

I don't know much about nuclear bomb but I know that in addition to the people killed directly in the blast radius people who are outside of the radius also suffers 3rd degree Burns... Which is more hell then dying... Then comes 2nd degree Burns and the radius keeps increasing...

 

[Vijyes Yechury]

I don't know much about nuclear bomb but I know that in addition to the people killed directly in the blast radius people who are outside of the radius also suffers 3rd degree Burns... Which is more hell then dying... Then comes 2nd degree Burns and the radius keeps increasing...

Do you think people will be taking a sunbath outside? People will generally be in some vehicle, buildings etc. People will not receive even a small burn if they are shielded by even a cardboard. Most important aspect of the blast is the blast wave which is a form of minicyclone. This is the biggest cause of damage. As distance increases, blast wave strength decreases and the ability to damage concrete building will be minimal

 

[Ultima Thule]

Do you think people will be taking a sunbath outside? People will generally be in some vehicle, buildings etc. People will not receive even a small burn if they are shielded by even a cardboard. Most important aspect of the blast is the blast wave which is a form of minicyclone. This is the biggest cause of damage. As distance increases, blast wave strength decreases and the ability to damage concrete building will be minimal

You know nothing about nukes and their effects @Vijyes Yechury