India's Future Main Battle Tank (FMBT)

[DeathInvader]

Do you have any problem with that mate??I think you don't even know what we were talking about,so why make such unnecessary comment when i wasn't even having a conversation with you!!

i was taking ur side! wth?

Dude!!Everyone here is one!!

Exactly wat i meant from that comment. I was taking his side

 

[holysaturn]

That's your opinion,not a fact.
The design looks quite promising,only except the main gun.For a tank which is supposed to be for future battlefields,a 125mm L52 just doesn't make the cut.

The 120 or the 125mm gun are just stop gap measures and hypervelocity guns are in early concept stages which will be drop in replacements by 2030.
I had talked again about the gun calibre with a retd EME officer with knowledge about the arjun trials. According to him the army is very keen on the use of missiles(which is why it insisted on this capability in Arjun mk2) and there is no proven 120mm missile available in the market as of now.When I mentioned the lahat he said the Invar performs much better than the lahat.
The army is completely not satisfied with the lahat for the following reasons.
1.Extremely poor hit probability during the trials.(not a fault of the arjun as he mentioned).
2.Instability of the missile in crosswinds( big rear fins cause this).
3.Lack of stability at the initial phases flight of after launch which affects short range accuracy.(the biggest flaw perhaps)

 

[Mike_Brando]

i was taking ur side! wth?



Exactly wat i meant from that comment. I was taking his side

Sorry my mistake i misread the meaning of your post and hence offer my apology to you

 

[Omega007]

An engine at front was designed with IED's and mines in the mind. What it does is it pushes the driver and the crew to the rear which means they have a higher chance of survival as they(esp the driver) will not be directly over the explosion. But from the thermal signature point of view a merkava will glow bright on thermal imagers as the engine and exhaust are at the front.

Nah,it wasn't done because of that!!The engine was placed in the front because of their earlier concept of carrying a few combat ready soldiers into the Merkava MkIV's primary ammunition storage,and that's why they needed to install the door on the back and had to reposition the engine to the front.But soon they found out that it was an useless practice since if they carry the soldiers then there would be no place left for stowing the 120mm ammo and therefore discontinued this practice.

And reposition the engine on the front does nothing like what you have proposed,only thing it does is to weaken the glacis armor.Since the volume that could be used for armor is taken up by the engine.And in order to dismount the engine for overhauling/maintenance with ease,you have to make the glacis plate thinner,which automatically means you have effectively turned your tank's frontal arc more vulnerable against anti tank threats.And do not live into any kind of illusion that the engine block would provide any worthwhile protection against kinetic energy penetrators - it's just a myth or disinformation,spread by the Discovery network and the gullible world over have fallen for it.

The 120 or the 125mm gun are just stop gap measures and hypervelocity guns are in early concept stages which will be drop in replacements by 2030.
I had talked again about the gun calibre with a retd EME officer with knowledge about the arjun trials. According to him the army is very keen on the use of missiles(which is why it insisted on this capability in Arjun mk2) and there is no proven 120mm missile available in the market as of now.When I mentioned the lahat he said the Invar performs much better than the lahat.
The army is completely not satisfied with the lahat for the following reasons.
1.Extremely poor hit probability during the trials.(not a fault of the arjun as he mentioned).
2.Instability of the missile in crosswinds( big rear fins cause this).
3.Lack of stability at the initial phases flight of after launch which affects short range accuracy.(the biggest flaw perhaps)

Hmm.....quite an interesting info.Thanks for sharing bro.But I find it absurd that Army is so keen on using missiles since the composite armors are far more effective against shaped charge jets than they are against kinetic energy rounds!!

Exactly wat i meant from that comment. I was taking his side

I see!!Extremely sorry bro.

 

[Dazzler]

Who told you that India can not produce Smooth barrel guns,bro??!!In fact,the OFB has been producing 125mm 2A46M smooth barrel guns for license built T 72M1 'monkey models' since decades.Actually,a smooth barrel gun is much easier and simpler and also a lot quicker to forge compared to rifled ones.

Alright stop there or the sky will fall. You have nothing rational to share but silly jignostic rhetoric. Making a smoothbore inhouse with oem level r&d is a differnt ball game altogether. Ask americans why they could never come up a better 120mm smoothbore for Abrams, instead opted for rheinmetal version. Secondly, your OFB is producing mince meat of 2a46m guns that even Russians are ashamed of. And I have said it before and say it again, the arjun 120mm rifle gun is a below par gun with inferior quality metallurgy went into it. The end result is barrel chipping, low EFC and gun chamber pressure quite ordinary.

And please, do not compare Russian MBT might with that of yours, goodness !!

 

[GORKHALI]

Alright stop there or the sky will fall. You have nothing rational to share but silly jignostic rhetoric. Making a smoothbore inhouse with oem level r&d is a differnt ball game altogether. Ask americans why they could never come up a better 120mm smoothbore for Abrams, instead opted for rheinmetal version. Secondly, your OFB is producing mince meat of 2a46m guns that even Russians are ashamed of. And I have said it before and say it again, the arjun 120mm rifle gun is a below par gun with inferior quality metallurgy went into it. The end result is barrel chipping, low EFC and gun chamber pressure quite ordinary.

And please, do not compare Russian MBT might with that of yours, goodness !!

You know nothing but a shit,so much being an analyst.
The T-90S's domestic production at HVF after all has been a difficult process with the Russian OEM refusing to transfer technology for vital assemblies such as the gun system (including the barrel) and turret armour plates. For the first 175 T-90s produced at Avadi, the gun system had to be imported off the shelf from Russia. However starting 2012, an indigenous 125 mm smooth bore gun developed by DRDO with a 'modified chemistry barrel' of the existing T-72 gun has gone into production having completed trials in 2010.

Saurav Jha's Blog : A look at the Indian Army's Main Battle Tank programs

READ and RIP

 

[Water Car Engineer]

“For the land system, which is backed by core competencies of M&M, we make different types of armoured vehicles. We have already developed the Future Main Battle Tank (FMBT). Our Futuristic Infantry Combat Vehicle (FICV) programme is running behind schedule,” he said.

Mahindra Defence ready with UAV platforms

Confusing report from a Mahindra rep.

 

[Dazzler]

You know nothing but a shit,so much being an analyst.
The T-90S's domestic production at HVF after all has been a difficult process with the Russian OEM refusing to transfer technology for vital assemblies such as the gun system (including the barrel) and turret armour plates. For the first 175 T-90s produced at Avadi, the gun system had to be imported off the shelf from Russia. However starting 2012, an indigenous 125 mm smooth bore gun developed by DRDO with a 'modified chemistry barrel' of the existing T-72 gun has gone into production having completed trials in 2010.

Saurav Jha's Blog : A look at the Indian Army's Main Battle Tank programs

READ and RIP

Here comes another one...

Back t school kid...
What avadi is making is an "existing" design with little tweaks here and there. To date your ofb and drdo are yet to come up with a quality armour design. The only thing they are good at is boasting and consuming funds. All is haywire everywhere with no enthusiasm to get the job done

Before quoting me, read and understand what I have been saying.

 

[GORKHALI]

Here comes another one...

Back t school kid...
What avadi is making is an "existing" design with little tweaks here and there. To date your ofb and drdo are yet to come up with a quality armour design. The only thing they are good at is boasting and consuming funds. All is haywire everywhere with no enthusiasm to get the job done

Before quoting me, read and understand what I have been saying.

You give a link or shut up. @waz is this a level of pdf analyst. He doubted other countries federal structures, what if I start the same for HIT and Kamra, I mean these institution is not even in competition when it comes to revenue generation, RnD or even in terms of production line. I can rebutt by the same context by doubting pakistan federal agencies?

 

[Omega007]

Alright stop there or the sky will fall.

WHOW WHOW WHOW..........WHOOOW!!So it seems finally you decided to heed to my advice and went back in some good school leaving behind years of those stupid Madrassa indoctrination and brainwash you received!!And just look at the result - you've already learned a new phrase...........the bold part I mean!!I'm happy for ya kid,I really am!!
But kid,I gotta tell you,your reaction and use of this particular phrase was pretty much over the top...........in fact I would go further to say it was out of place and inappropriate.But then again,it would be unfair to expect you to learn everything in just one day!!But don't worry kid,you will reach there............eventually.

You have nothing rational to share but silly jignostic rhetoric.

Which part of my post you found to be "jignostic" rhetoric,my dear innocent little daughter??You are expected to mark that part in bold,you know??Granted,you have just begun to receive proper education,but you gotta cath up fast!!Especially you want to do justice to your rank of "PDF THINK TANK: CONSULTANT"!!

Making a smoothbore inhouse with oem level r&d is a differnt ball game altogether.

For land of pure may be,not for other,technologically more advanced nations it isn't!!Do not confuse your land of pure with our country please,nothing would be more insulting and ignominious for us you know??Please don't get me wrong,just stating the obvious.No hard feelings.

Ask americans why they could never come up a better 120mm smoothbore for Abrams, instead opted for rheinmetal version.

YA GOTTA BE SHIT KIDDING ME!!
Did you forget about the XM291 and XM360 experimental gun projects??!!Both of them had better EFC and could achieve higher muzzle velocity that your Rheinmetall L/44.They were not implemented because the current M256-M829 combo was deemed sufficient for the foreseeable future and therefore they didn't want to invest huge sum on replacing the existing M256.Just because they didn't replace it,doesn't mean they can not build a smooth barrel gun on their own!!One have to a moron of galactic level,who is suffering from terminal stupidity coupled with a massive comprehension disability disorder to even believe what you said!!You can't be that stupid!!But then again,you are a pure-lander and anything is possible with the Pure-landers.

And even if the Americans do not produce their own tank guns,it's not much of a big deal.They almost haven't made any guns of their own for a long time.The last infantry personal small arm they built on their own was the M 14 battle rifle!!Even their present assault rifle,the M 16 is essentially an extension of the Armalite AR 15 design with just the gas piston replaced with direct impingement!!They use British mortars,after the Paladin and M198 ,they haven't built any of new artillery piece of their own design!!Does this mean they are incapable of designing them??Hus.......kids these days............

Secondly, your OFB is producing mince meat of 2a46m guns that even Russians are ashamed of.

Oh my cute innocent little daughter,the original 2A46M itself is 'mince meat' to begin with,so one can not blame the blame the OFB in this case.I guess you have mixed it up with the M2 version.........as always!!And I never said the 125mm guns were designed in India!!I just said they being produced here,heck I even mentioned them with the original GRU designation!!But then again,how can I forget I'm talking to an imbecile who doesn't understand simple English words!!

And I have said it before and say it again, the arjun 120mm rifle gun is a below par gun with inferior quality metallurgy went into it. The end result is barrel chipping, low EFC and gun chamber pressure quite ordinary.

So!!Are you the sole authority when it comes to the matters of Indian military industrial complex!!Have you done a PHD on this subject or something that we have to take all these crap you defecate out through your mouth??!!How did you came to the above conclusion of yours,that "the arjun 120mm rifle gun is a below par gun with inferior quality metallurgy went into it. The end result is barrel chipping, low EFC and gun chamber pressure quite ordinary"??!!Did you examined the metallurgy yourself or are you privy to some internal ARDE information that rest of us are not aware of??!!If the case is among any of the two I mentioned above,then come clean with your findings and post the facts here.Or else,which is more than likely,you are just spreading disinformation just satisfy your ego and hide your frustration.In that case,I have to tell you politely to shove all your craps up your devine @rse.Capise??

Inferior metallurgy,a gun designed in the 80s which could withstand a chamber pressure of over 6900 Bars has to be of inferior built with "gun chamber pressure quite ordinary"!!What a logic!!A country that can produce warship grade steel,carbon fiber based super composites,high hardness alloy steels that can give thickness efficiency value of over 1.6,a country that can produce titanium based super alloys can not come up with necessary metallurgy for a tank gun - height of ignorance and stupidity!!Listen up and listen good,Just because your country can not even design a sub machine gun on its own,doesn't mean others are still stranded at such a primitive level!!

And please, do not compare Russian MBT might with that of yours, goodness !!

And where did you find that??!!Where did I ever compare a Russia tank with the MBT Arjun??Show me that part you moron.Seems like you are not just a moron but also totally delusional chap with utter lack of basic comprehension skills!!

Here comes another one...

Back t school kid...
What avadi is making is an "existing" design with little tweaks here and there.

So what??!!When did he claimed otherwise??Can you even read and understand simple English??Because after going through all these gibberish you keep on posting everywhere,I seriously doubt that you can.

To date your ofb and drdo are yet to come up with a quality armour design. The only thing they are good at is boasting and consuming funds. All is haywire everywhere with no enthusiasm to get the job done

Here is another gem!!Where do you get the energy for posting all these non substantiated bull craps!!Really boy,you must go back to school and learn a thing or two.Do you even know that the first criteria for making an outrageous claim,you have to come up with some actual substance to support your claim/theory,which so far you have failed to comply to.

So as per you,a country that had mastered carbon fiber composite and polyester resins a long time ago,a country that can produce warship grade steel,a country that can build steel with thickness efficiency of greater than 1.6,who can build Titanium based super alloys,advanced NERA modules can not develop a decent armor for its tanks!!Tell me more please you numb nut!!

Just because your land of Pure has been atotal failure,you can not expect everyone else would be like that!!

Before quoting me, read and understand what I have been saying.

How could he,cause even you have no freaking idea about the rampant gibberish you spread everywhere all the time !!

 

[Omega007]

You give a link or shut up.

Actually I do not even care for a link to an internet article if the member making a claim,can back it up with a good enough logic.But this particular user never even bothers to explain his claims with proper substance.All he does is to first make some erroneous claims and then disappear in thin air.

@waz is this a level of pdf analyst. He doubted other countries federal structures, what if I start the same for HIT and Kamra, I mean these institution is not even in competition when it comes to revenue generation, RnD or even in terms of production line. I can rebutt by the same context by doubting pakistan federal agencies?

Very well put.........nice and straight to the point.

 

[Dazzler]

Actually I do not even care for a link to an internet article if the member making a claim,can back it up with a good enough logic.But this particular user never even bothers to explain his claims with proper substance.All he does is to first make some erroneous claims and then disappear in thin air.



Very well put.........nice and straight to the point.

go through the Arjuna thread for links and evidences, you folks have short memories i guess.

WHOW WHOW WHOW..........WHOOOW!!So it seems finally you decided to heed to my advice and went back in some good school leaving behind years of those stupid Madrassa indoctrination and brainwash you received!!And just look at the result - you've already learned a new phrase...........the bold part I mean!!I'm happy for ya kid,I really am!!
But kid,I gotta tell you,your reaction and use of this particular phrase was pretty much over the top...........in fact I would go further to say it was out of place and inappropriate.But then again,it would be unfair to expect you to learn everything in just one day!!But don't worry kid,you will reach there............eventually.


Which part of my post you found to be "jignostic" rhetoric,my dear innocent little daughter??You are expected to mark that part in bold,you know??Granted,you have just begun to receive proper education,but you gotta cath up fast!!Especially you want to do justice to your rank of "PDF THINK TANK: CONSULTANT"!!


For land of pure may be,not for other,technologically more advanced nations it isn't!!Do not confuse your land of pure with our country please,nothing would be more insulting and ignominious for us you know??Please don't get me wrong,just stating the obvious.No hard feelings.


YA GOTTA BE SHIT KIDDING ME!!
Did you forget about the XM291 and XM360 experimental gun projects??!!Both of them had better EFC and could achieve higher muzzle velocity that your Rheinmetall L/44.They were not implemented because the current M256-M829 combo was deemed sufficient for the foreseeable future and therefore they didn't want to invest huge sum on replacing the existing M256.Just because they didn't replace it,doesn't mean they can not build a smooth barrel gun on their own!!One have to a moron of galactic level,who is suffering from terminal stupidity coupled with a massive comprehension disability disorder to even believe what you said!!You can't be that stupid!!But then again,you are a pure-lander and anything is possible with the Pure-landers.

And even if the Americans do not produce their own tank guns,it's not much of a big deal.They almost haven't made any guns of their own for a long time.The last infantry personal small arm they built on their own was the M 14 battle rifle!!Even their present assault rifle,the M 16 is essentially an extension of the Armalite AR 15 design with just the gas piston replaced with direct impingement!!They use British mortars,after the Paladin and M198 ,they haven't built any of new artillery piece of their own design!!Does this mean they are incapable of designing them??Hus.......kids these days............

Oh my cute innocent little daughter,the original 2A46M itself is 'mince meat' to begin with,so one can not blame the blame the OFB in this case.I guess you have mixed it up with the M2 version.........as always!!And I never said the 125mm guns were designed in India!!I just said they being produced here,heck I even mentioned them with the original GRU designation!!But then again,how can I forget I'm talking to an imbecile who doesn't understand simple English words!!


So!!Are you the sole authority when it comes to the matters of Indian military industrial complex!!Have you done a PHD on this subject or something that we have to take all these crap you defecate out through your mouth??!!How did you came to the above conclusion of yours,that "the arjun 120mm rifle gun is a below par gun with inferior quality metallurgy went into it. The end result is barrel chipping, low EFC and gun chamber pressure quite ordinary"??!!Did you examined the metallurgy yourself or are you privy to some internal ARDE information that rest of us are not aware of??!!If the case is among any of the two I mentioned above,then come clean with your findings and post the facts here.Or else,which is more than likely,you are just spreading disinformation just satisfy your ego and hide your frustration.In that case,I have to tell you politely to shove all your craps up your devine @rse.Capise??

Inferior metallurgy,a gun designed in the 80s which could withstand a chamber pressure of over 6900 Bars has to be of inferior built with "gun chamber pressure quite ordinary"!!What a logic!!A country that can produce warship grade steel,carbon fiber based super composites,high hardness alloy steels that can give thickness efficiency value of over 1.6,a country that can produce titanium based super alloys can not come up with necessary metallurgy for a tank gun - height of ignorance and stupidity!!Listen up and listen good,Just because your country can not even design a sub machine gun on its own,doesn't mean others are still stranded at such a primitive level!!



And where did you find that??!!Where did I ever compare a Russia tank with the MBT Arjun??Show me that part you moron.Seems like you are not just a moron but also totally delusional chap with utter lack of basic comprehension skills!!


So what??!!When did he claimed otherwise??Can you even read and understand simple English??Because after going through all these gibberish you keep on posting everywhere,I seriously doubt that you can.


Here is another gem!!Where do you get the energy for posting all these non substantiated bull craps!!Really boy,you must go back to school and learn a thing or two.Do you even know that the first criteria for making an outrageous claim,you have to come up with some actual substance to support your claim/theory,which so far you have failed to comply to.

So as per you,a country that had mastered carbon fiber composite and polyester resins a long time ago,a country that can produce warship grade steel,a country that can build steel with thickness efficiency of greater than 1.6,who can build Titanium based super alloys,advanced NERA modules can not develop a decent armor for its tanks!!Tell me more please you numb nut!!

Just because your land of Pure has been atotal failure,you can not expect everyone else would be like that!!



How could he,cause even you have no freaking idea about the rampant gibberish you spread everywhere all the time !!

Showing the "Real" you when ran out of counter arguments yeh.. Read your post again and see the amount of nonsense you bring in every post. You think your worth a reply whereas you do not worth nothing.


None of you has ever been able to handle my arguments and judging by the way things are going, you never will.

You give a link or shut up. @waz is this a level of pdf analyst. He doubted other countries federal structures, what if I start the same for HIT and Kamra, I mean these institution is not even in competition when it comes to revenue generation, RnD or even in terms of production line. I can rebutt by the same context by doubting pakistan federal agencies?

who says everything goes well in HIT or other industries? Where did that even come from?

However, they get things to work and know their limits. unlike yours where there is no end to incompetence.

 

[Zarvan]

go through the Arjuna thread for links and evidences, you folks have short memories i guess.



Showing the "Real" you when ran out of counter arguments yeh.. Read your post again and see the amount of nonsense you bring in every post. You think your worth a reply whereas you do not worth nothing.


None of you has ever been able to handle my arguments and judging by the way things are going, you never will.



who says everything goes well in HIT or other industries? Where did that even come from?

However, they get things to work and know their limits. unlike yours where there is no end to incompetence.

Yes at least our guys don't think they can make everything on there own when they fail they simply try to get them from other countries and also try to produce as much as they can but Indians think they have some super natural powers so no need to waste your time.

 

[Omega007]

go through the Arjuna thread for links and evidences, you folks have short memories i guess.

Blah blah blah blah...........yada yada yada.............in other words,you have got nothing of substance.Only some baseless rants and rhetorical nonsense,as always.

Showing the "Real" you when ran out of counter arguments yeh..

What counter argument,ehh.....??Where are they cause I don't see one in your post!!All I see is some baseless allegations and moreover you put words into my mouth to prove your agenda!!So how can someone give counter arguments when there hasn't been made any arguments in the first place??!!You just posted some rants and therefore got back counter rants.
Actually on the contrary,I presented you with plenty of counter arguments,if you could actually bother to see.But know,why would you??You've got all of it figured out.Good for you then.

Read your post again and see the amount of nonsense you bring in every post.

Point them out for me please and I'll rectify them.Till then,stop your rants.

You think your worth a reply whereas you do not worth nothing.

Sure sure,why not??Your words have to be right,no matter how much erroneous or absurd they sound........right??!!And whatever I or any other for that matter say,automatically becomes garbage.Quite an interesting way of running a debate you have got there!!

None of you has ever been able to handle my arguments and judging by the way things are going, you never will.

Another gem!!Whatever rocks your boat.

who says everything goes well in HIT or other industries? Where did that even come from?

No one said anything.He was just pointing out your weird way of running a debate,that making a claim without any substance to back it up,totally forgetting the laws of 'burden of proof'. Need I say more??
And none of us ever claimed all is milk and honey when it comes to our military industrial complex!!You just assumed that.Just go through the thread,unlike you guys,we never shy away from discussing the weakness in our industry and the products they build.Like I never claimed the 125mm smooth barrel gun was an Indian development,I just said it was manufactured here by OFB!!And you jumped in and made some rants,without realizing what was being said in the first place!!As it turns out,you do not seem to know the difference between these two words in bold.
And then somehow you figured out I was comparing some Russian tank with MBT Arjun,when in reality,I never did such a thing in this thread.And when I asked you to point me towards that part where I had made the comparison,so that I could rectify it..............what did you do??You just decided to ignore my proposal and kept on your course.Then what do you expect me to make out of this mess??You tell me,I'm asking again.Unlike some others,I'm man enough to admit when proven wrong,but at least show me that part if not prove me wrong!!Is it too much to ask for??
And if anything,I have always maintained that your AK had a clear edge over Arjun in some fields;most significantly, in terms of firepower through the use of more modern APFSDS rounds or more uniform front turret protection with fewer weakspots.See!We never shy away from calling a spade a spade.

However, they get things to work and know their limits. unlike yours where there is no end to incompetence.

Wow!!Great,just great!!An other claim without something to back it up.And you accuse us of spewing gibberish!!

Yes at least our guys don't think they can make everything on there own when they fail they simply try to get them from other countries and also try to produce as much as they can but Indians think they have some super natural powers so no need to waste your time.

On the contrary,it's totally the other way round actually,my friend.

 

[Dazzler]

Blah blah blah blah...........yada yada yada.............in other words,you have got nothing of substance.Only some baseless rants and rhetorical nonsense,as always.


What counter argument,ehh.....??Where are they cause I don't see one in your post!!All I see is some baseless allegations and moreover you put words into my mouth to prove your agenda!!So how can someone give counter arguments when there hasn't been made any arguments in the first place??!!You just posted some rants and therefore got back counter rants.
Actually on the contrary,I presented you with plenty of counter arguments,if you could actually bother to see.But know,why would you??You've got all of it figured out.Good for you then.

Point them out for me please and I'll rectify them.Till then,stop your rants.


Sure sure,why not??Your words have to be right,no matter how much erroneous or absurd they sound........right??!!And whatever I or any other for that matter say,automatically becomes garbage.Quite an interesting way of running a debate you have got there!!


Another gem!!Whatever rocks your boat.




No one said anything.He was just pointing out your weird way of running a debate,that making a claim without any substance to back it up,totally forgetting the laws of 'burden of proof'. Need I say more??
And none of us ever claimed all is milk and honey when it comes to our military industrial complex!!You just assumed that.Just go through the thread,unlike you guys,we never shy away from discussing the weakness in our industry and the products they build.Like I never claimed the 125mm smooth barrel gun was an Indian development,I just said it was manufactured here by OFB!!And you jumped in and made some rants,without realizing what was being said in the first place!!As it turns out,you do not seem to know the difference between these two words in bold.
And then somehow you figured out I was comparing some Russian tank with MBT Arjun,when in reality,I never did such a thing in this thread.And when I asked you to point me towards that part where I had made the comparison,so that I could rectify it..............what did you do??You just decided to ignore my proposal and kept on your course.Then what do you expect me to make out of this mess??You tell me,I'm asking again.Unlike some others,I'm man enough to admit when proven wrong,but at least show me that part if not prove me wrong!!Is it too much to ask for??
And if anything,I have always maintained that your AK had a clear edge over Arjun in some fields;most significantly, in terms of firepower through the use of more modern APFSDS rounds or more uniform front turret protection with fewer weakspots.See!We never shy away from calling a spade a spade.


Wow!!Great,just great!!An other claim without something to back it up.And you accuse us of spewing gibberish!!



On the contrary,it's totally the other way round actually,my friend.

Indian military industrial complex, your ROFL of the day