India’s Emerging Blue-Water Navy

[Superboy]

According to some members here if your conventional weapons power is more then its no use how many toys you posses. Based on that logic - China will nuke US and India would nuke China and Pakistan would nuke India.

End of the world.

Chinese have some of the greatest mathematicians in the world. Terence Tao, Zhang Yi Tang, Sun Zhi Wei to name just a few. Just a few decades ago, there was Chen Jing Run. What do Americans have? Yeah, China doesn't even need to bother with a backwater country like America.

 

[Indischer]

India painted all her warships in Blue color and renamed her Navy to "Blue Water Navy". LOL

LOL. Now I understand why Pakistan is a Green Water Navy!

 

[President]

He is saying that USN is the most powerful navy in Indian Ocean and Indian navy exists at the mercy of the US Navy. So whether Indian Navy can operate in Indian ocean or not is not a military question, but a political question. India need to stay on the side of the US if it wish to sail the Indian Ocean.

what about chinese navy? are they also on usn ?

 

[Nassr]

Rather presence of US 7th fleet in Japan signifies the concern for SCS and not Indian Ocean. Japan has been an ally for a long time and makes perfect sense to place your fleet in your ally's waters. How that means domination of Indian ocean is out of my thinking. Whatever capability China may have, fact is they would have hard time dealing with Japan only. You are free to imagine what will happen when you add 3 Navies to that list.

Clearly, Chinese are strong no doubt. And Indian Navy knows that. Therefore don't you think its more reason to get closer to US and Japan and Vietnam?

No, it would be the opposite. US is ready to jump in for every mistake China commits. Look how everyone criticized china for the paltry aid and how it was played up in Western media. This is just the beginning. India and Japan holding Naval exercises. So its for the Chinese to decide whether they want others to gang up against her or not.

The major change in US military strategy has already taken place which entails a shift from being pre-dominantly Euro-centric Continental Strategic Format (primary land based operations) to Asia-centric Maritime Strategic Format (primary sea based operations). This entails maintaining US primacy and unhindered access to the Indian Ocean including trade, energy and logistic transit zones and denial of Pacific to any inimical naval force which could threaten the US and its interests or keeping the world commons within Asian continent under US dominance.

The deployment of Indian Navy however, is instructive in many ways. Two thirds of Indian naval forces are deployed along its western coast. The strategic Malacca Strait is covered by a small Tri-service Andaman and Nicobar Command. The major bias of operations is not towards the Eastern Indian Ocean which controls the entry into South China Sea against India’s declared enemy number one – China. The bias is towards Pakistan, domination of the strategic Straits of Hormuz in Persian Gulf and Bab el Mandab which links Mediterranean with Indian Ocean through the Suez Canal.

With introduction of US and its Allied naval powers in Indian Ocean though, Indian maritime power has largely been neutralized and its aspirations of Indian Ocean dominance severely undermined. With US 7th Fleet stationed in Japan and Chinese and Japanese naval powers operating in the South China Sea, India can neither intrusively dominate the Malacca Straits nor can project its naval power into the South China Sea. With presence of US 5th Fleet in the Persian Gulf and the sensitivity of Middle Eastern and European powers towards Bab el Mandab, Indian naval power projection here is also a no-go. If for a reason, India threatens to disrupt the international SLOCs, it will invite the wrath of international community. Therefore, Indian Navy which is vying to become the third navy in the world, would mainly remain a coercive force in being, providing anti-piracy support.

Indians have also not politically reciprocated to US and its allies in the manner they expected it to. Therefore, without assimilating UK, Israel, Japan and South Korea, India – US strategic partnership is likely to remain an intellectual strategic discussion forum and nothing beyond and many US analysts have openly started saying the same since some time now.

 

[Nassr]

Correct your post.
There is exactly one Navy that is stronger than Indian Navy in IOR. That is the USN.
However contrary to the geopolitical situation of China, where the presence of USN would be considered mandatory as a threat, India has no such issues.
India has zero problems with US and no fundamental disagreements of the world view.

As such USN is considered a stabilizing force and a cooperative force.

India alone has the capability to blockade the Malacca straits not just by virtue of having a large Navy, but also by virtue of having an Island chain right at the mouth of the Malacca Straits. The Andaman and Nicobar Archipelago hosts the first (Indian)Tri Services Command almost exclusively for this purpose.

The objective of a Navy is to further Indian interests. It is not to play a game, play second or first fiddle or anything.
As long as Indian policy makers feel that the Navy serves the geopolitical needs of India, it shall be well funded and continually expanded, the moment that changes, the Navy would be reduced in size commensurate to its importance.

As far as being surrounded by land is concerned. You are quite wrong. India was surrounded by great powers who countered India. That was China and Pakistan. Who had the military wherewithal to present a constant challenge.
Today Pakistan is out that club. Pakistan today does not have the military that can pose a serious threat to India. Pakistan has simply not kept up. Consequently, other powers that deferred to Pakistan against India are no longer willing to do so.

An example is that how barely a month back India recieved its first shipment of goods from Afghanistan using Chabahar port in Iran. Pakistan was bypassed completely and India can now trade directly with Iran and Central Asia. Pakistan has been powerless to stop this.

Today Only one nation - China has the ability to stop Indian designs and lock in India.

Please read my reply to @ MKI 30 where I have responded to most of the points that you have raised. Also, you have not read my reply correctly. I also stated that Pakistan is not much concerned about Indian Navy as long as the conventional imbalance is balanced through nuclear deterrence. This deterrence will be maintained through lowering and enhancing the nuclear thresholds depending upon how strong or weak a conventional Pakistan may become. Even an economically or politically weak Pakistan will still remain a nuclear Pakistan, and this is something that you all must not forget.

The problem with most of you Indians is that you tend to still live in the last decades and think that through your conventional superiority you would be able crow over Pakistan. You people only play the conventional game and does not venture into the conventional supported nuclear warfare environment that exist now and would remain in future. This is probably because of lack of information about such a paradigm or simply that you people want to relish in your conventional superiority environment, which is a bygone era.

Geopolitically, India is in a much weaker situation than Pakistan. India does not have the wherewithal to express domination of world commons plying through the IOR and that is a fact. You are a big country but you are not a big power. The capability that you have is a mere force in being and the soone you understand this fact, the better it will be for all of us.

And please, Chahbahar is a mere shallow water port. Udhar machlian pakrro aur mazay karo.

 

[Mitro]

Indian Navy cannot do sh$t against China ,If they do any misadventure then china will take all of Indian north east from us and there will be no more indian navy.
the future of indian ocean will be decided between china and US and india has nothing to do in it.
its better we realize it early so some people can have good night sleep.

 

[notsuperstitious]

Indian Navy cannot do sh$t against China ,If they do any misadventure then china will take all of Indian north east from us and there will be no more indian navy.
the future of indian ocean will be decided between china and US and india has nothing to do in it.
its better we realize it early so some people can have good night sleep.

You seem to think a discussion on an anonymous forum is for getting a good nights sleep, and that's how you seem to approach it with your black and white armchair general assumptions. Well whatever keeps you happy, as long as you get to express your anti india religion based feelings.

BTW Pakistani logic is so desperately funny, indian conventional superiority is NIL because Pakistan has nukes, but Chinese conventional superiority means china can simply take over india even though india too has nukes, just because china is their adopted daddy! What jokers.

 

[illusion8]

India painted all her warships in Blue color and renamed her Navy to "Blue Water Navy". LOL

No we painted the oceans blue because it's a "blue water" navy not a blue navy water. 

Indian Navy cannot do sh$t against China ,If they do any misadventure then china will take all of Indian north east from us and there will be no more indian navy.
the future of indian ocean will be decided between china and US and india has nothing to do in it.
its better we realize it early so some people can have good night sleep.

I would advice that you go back to Pakistan and become a Pakistani - I am sure you will have a good night's sleep - we know how to take care of ourselves. We anyways don't count on the likes of you or your creed for our defense.

 

[sincity]

India border with both nuclear arm state, one is Pakistan and other is China, if India decide to use nuke on Pakistan then India sure invite China nuke retaliation. China and Pakistan understand the simple logic of if India decide to nuke Pakistan the next country will be nuke is China. Therefore, China will sure respond a preemptive nuclear strike on India, can India survive a nuclear warfare with both Pakistan and China as the same time?

 

[my2cents]

India border with both nuclear arm state, one is Pakistan and other is China, if India decide to use nuke on Pakistan then India sure invite China nuke retaliation. China and Pakistan understand the simple logic of if India decide to nuke Pakistan the next country will be nuke is China. Therefore, China will sure respond a preemptive nuclear strike on India, can India survive a nuclear warfare with both Pakistan and China as the same time?

No one country will win in a nuclear warfare. The nuclear fallout and its effects will make the land barren and uninhabitable for next 100 years. Imagine the catastrophe of mass starvation and deaths.

 

[Oldman1]

Chinese have some of the greatest mathematicians in the world. Terence Tao, Zhang Yi Tang, Sun Zhi Wei to name just a few. Just a few decades ago, there was Chen Jing Run. What do Americans have? Yeah, China doesn't even need to bother with a backwater country like America.

Your country hasn't invented crap for the last few decades compare to U.S. Your country is backwards and still is.

 

[Mitro]

we are having conventional superiority from last 65 years "kya tud diya ".
this small Big pain country is giving us nightmares from last 65 years and also occupy our land .
we were pakistan centric for 65 years now we just started china centric policy what a joke.

You seem to think a discussion on an anonymous forum is for getting a good nights sleep, and that's how you seem to approach it with your black and white armchair general assumptions. Well whatever keeps you happy, as long as you get to express your anti india religion based feelings.

BTW Pakistani logic is so desperately funny, indian conventional superiority is NIL because Pakistan has nukes, but Chinese conventional superiority means china can simply take over india even though india too has nukes, just because china is their adopted daddy! What jokers.

 

[Indischer]

we are having conventional superiority from last 65 years "kya tud diya ".
this small Big pain country is giving us nightmares from last 65 years and also occupy our land .
we were pakistan centric for 65 years now we just started china centric policy what a joke.

Just because we had conventional superiority, should we start a war with our neighbours? What sort of logic is that? Why do you whine then when the US occupies foreign lands? They too have conventional superiority over the rest of us, don't they?

They are called "Defence" forces for a reason. The idea is to deter any thoughts of a misadventure against us, not go about yahoo-ing just because our D!ck grew longer than our neighbor's.

Pakistan poses no more a threat to us than Bangladesh today. Our defence forces have only faltered once before, against China. Hence, more measures are being taken to ensure that this does not repeat again.

 

[Nassr]

Just because we had conventional superiority, should we start a war with our neighbours? What sort of logic is that? Why do you whine then when the US occupies foreign lands? They too have conventional superiority over the rest of us, don't they?

They are called "Defence" forces for a reason. The idea is to deter any thoughts of a misadventure against us, not go about yahoo-ing just because our D!ck grew longer than our neighbor's.

Pakistan poses no more a threat to us than Bangladesh today. Our defence forces have only faltered once before, against China. Hence, more measures are being taken to ensure that this does not repeat again.

Why then, may I dare ask, you have deployed 80% of your armed forces including your navy against Pakistan and not against China which you consider your enemy number one.

You are taking more measures to defend yourself - this is exactly my point. When you need more measures to defend yourself from Pakistan and China which surround you on land, with what force would you project your power to come out of being a regional bully. And in this regional bully capacity as well, you can only bully Bhutan, Nepal and Bangladesh may be.

You people have dichotomies in your strategic thinking and the realities that abound you.

 

[Indischer]

It's because the Psyche of Pakistan is such that it borders on the suicidal. "We'll die, but we shall ensure India goes down with us"-This is Pakistan's reasoning, as exhibited by it's ample nuclear sabre-rattling. If Pakistan was a successful, rational State, we wouldn't have bothered with deploying 80% of our Armed Forces in the Western sector.

Though China is a far more capable and worthy adversary, there have been no deaths on our borders for nearly 30 years now. This shows the maturity of the Chinese and we can trust them to do saner things than Pakistan. Hope your "confusion" is resolved to some extent.