India's ASTRA BVRAAM Successfully Testfired From IAF Flanker

[IND151]

One key component which article missed to quote is very high specific impulse derivative motor developed for Trishul Project. The similar one has gone into MRSAM and MRSAM.

Had India mastered this technology at the time of developing Akash, this motor would have been used in Akash Missile in place of RAMJET used in Missile. (My guise)

Any source?

 

[Dillinger]

@Indo-guy

Nirbhay, the missile was lounging about for quite sometime before the ill fated test, I think the technicians liked looking at it entombed within the ad hoc TEL.

Laghu shakti on the other hand has had NPO inputs because the SFC is still less than satisfactory, otherwise the Nirbhay would have had a higher range. But we have to make do.

 

[Indo-guy]

since @Dillinger is confident that its home grown,lets not rush to a conclusion so early

And all u haters who want to kill me by shocking me.................u will not succeed

Let him prove it with references .

If proven wrong , I will concede gracefully ....

@Indo-guy

Nirbhay, the missile was lounging about for quite sometime before the ill fated test, I think the technicians liked looking at it entombed within the ad hoc TEL.

Laghu shakti on the other hand has had NPO inputs because the SFC is still less than satisfactory, otherwise the Nirbhay would have had a higher range. But we have to make do.

sorry . I didn't get you ?

Is Nirbhay engine imported or no ?

It's simple question ...

Please don't go round about it and twist around.

Simple answer with yes or No .... is better .

If you think it's indigenous ...then you must back it up with proof !

thanks .

 

[IND151]

LRCM with Mach 3.5 speed and long range (Double the range of Brahmos) is coming.

If Modi saheb gives permeation, MIRV Agni will follow. MM has put it on hold.

Its speed is 3.2 mach and range is 600 km.

 

[Dillinger]

Let him prove it with references .

If proven wrong , I will concede gracefully ....

You're going to have to call Mr. Chander on that. Since the GTRE does not issue press releases, but a look at their RFI in mid 09 would have done the deal. On the other hand we did import the nickle alloy, hardly GTRE's fault, it doesn't produce said alloy.

 

[he-man]

i think @Dillinger is talking about this engine

 

[Indo-guy]

You're going to have to call Mr. Chander on that. Since the GTRE does not issue press releases, but a look at their RFI in mid 09 would have done the deal. On the other hand we did import the nickle alloy, hardly GTRE's fault, it doesn't produce said alloy.

So you admit that you have nothing to back up your claim . right ?

I will go with explicit admission by Director of DRDO .

Till the time you come up with source which can prove that Nirbhay is using engine developed by GTRE and not the imported one , Let us agree that Nirbhay is using imported engine !

 

[NKVD]

Then Mr. Chander and the fellow interviewing him will be awe struck to know of the the Small Gas Turbine Engine for Strategic Applications Program which happily handed over a working engine which was integrated on to the vehicle in 2012 itself.

There are still nine more planned flight-tests of the Nirbhay through to 2017. The first two are meant for validating the robustness of the missile’s airframe and that of its two-stage propulsion system (and hence are not equipped with digital terrain profile matching sensor and warheads. The next two, also to be conducted from ITR, will seek to validate the Nirbhay’s flight management system, inclusive of the digital terrain profile matching sensor (an X-band SAR). The following two will involve the fully integrated missile being test-fired (one over land & one over the sea) from a Su-30MKI, which will be followed by two SLCM versions being test-fired (one over land and one over the sea) from a submerged SSBN, the S-2/Arihant. The final two test-firings will involve fully integrated Nirbhays armed with live conventional warheads, with one being launched from a Su-30MKI and the other from the S-2/Arihant.

The Nirbhay’s nuclear warhead-armed ALCM version (minus the solid-rocket booster) will be qualified for use by 20 specially customised Su-30MKIs, while the nuclear warhead-armed SLCM variant (incorporating the solid-rocket booster) will go on board the S-2, S-3 and S-4 SSBNs. The air-launched and nuclear-armed Nirbhay will have a length of 6 metres, diameter of 0.55 metres, wingspan of 2.7 metres, launch mass of 1,200kg, cruise speed of Mach 0.7, and a 250kg warhead-section. Its cruising altitude over water will be 10 metres (33 feet), while its cruising altitude over land will be 30 metres (98 feet). The MoD-owned Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd’s (HAL) Bengaluru-based Engine Test Bed Research & Development Centre (ETBRDC) has developed a turbofan for powering all members of the Nirbhay cruise missile family. A hybrid inertial navigation system using a ring-laser gyro (RINS) coupled with a GPS receiver and a digital radar altimeter (all developed by the DRDO’s Research centre Imarat, or RCI, and integrated jointly by the Advanced Systems Laboratory, or ASL, and the Aeronautical Development Establishment, or ADE) will provide a CEP of 20 metres. All on-board avionics, inclusive of the ones mentioned above, plus the mission computer and missile interface unit, have been developed as spinoffs from the BrahMos-1 supersonic multi-role cruise missile’s R & D cycle, which lasted between 1998 and 2005.

While the ASQRs and NSQRs for the nuclear-armed Nirbhay were drafted by 2005, hands-on R & D work began in only 2007, with all R & D-related activity due for completion by late 2017. Following the entry into service of the nuclear-armed Nirbhay’s ALCM and SLCM versions, India’s Strategic Forces Command (SFC) will have at its disposal four distinct types of highly survivable nuclear warhead delivery systems that will be optimised for retaliatory nuclear strikes, these being the 4,500km-range SLBM now under development, the 600km-range air-launched supersonic LRCM that is also now under development (for delivering tactical nuclear warheads), plus the Nirbhay’s ALCM and SLCM versions, both of which will be able to deliver boosted-fission nuclear warheads.




Here is a revelation for those congenital retards hailing from India’s ‘desi’ print/electronic media who had claimed recently that 36MT turbofans or HAL-built PTAE-7 turbojets would power the Nirbhay cruise missile. Guess what! The two slides below from NPO Saturn clearly state that the 36MT turbofan was never meant to power long-range cruise missiles and neither does it power cruise missiles like Novator’s 3M14E or 3M54E.

TRISHUL: Maiden Test-Firing Of India’s Nirbhay Strategic Subsonic Cruise Missile A Moderate Success

 

[IND151]

@Indo-guy

Nirbhay, the missile was lounging about for quite sometime before the ill fated test, I think the technicians liked looking at it entombed within the ad hoc TEL.

Laghu shakti on the other hand has had NPO inputs because the SFC is still less than satisfactory, otherwise the Nirbhay would have had a higher range. But we have to make do.

Kindly elaborate.

 

[Dillinger]

Let him prove it with references .

If proven wrong , I will concede gracefully ....



sorry . I didn't get you ?

Is Nirbhay engine imported or no ?

It's simple question ...

Please don't go round about it and twist around.

Simple answer with yes or No .... is better .

If you think it's indigenous ...then you must back it up with proof !

thanks .

No its not.

But people are also asking about Laghu shakti.

The GTRE's RFIs, on ground reporting should suffice, otherwise I've spent a third of my life listening to claims and counter claims. Or you can shoot off a nice query to GTRE itself. OR better yet look at the engines on offer from NPO, specially the 36MT and see for yourself whether it matches the criteria for kinematic performance. The SFC on that engine is less than that of the SGTE article.

 

[Indo-guy]

i think @Omega007

as @Omega007 suggested ....GTRE may have initiated efforts to develop indegenious engine for Nirbhay for future purpose when we will need Nirbhay in much larger numbers .

But for all practical purposes . Nirbhay is currently using imported engine and we have to take word of mouth od Dr Avinash Chander as final as against that of Dillinger's ( until he has something to prove the contrary )

Your post does not prove in any way how it is connected to Nirbhay missile at the moment .

thanks .

No its not.

But people are also asking about Laghu shakti.

The GTRE's RFIs, on ground reporting should suffice, otherwise I've spent a third of my life listening to claims and counter claims. Or you can shoot off a nice query to GTRE itself. OR better yet look at the engines on offer from NPO, specially the 36MT and see for yourself whether it matches the criteria for kinematic performance. The SFC on that engine is less than that of the SGTE article.

You must back up your assertion with valid proof , rather than conjectures .

In absence of direct proof I will take Dr Avinash Chander's word of mouth as against yours !!!

 

[Dillinger]

as @Omega007 suggested ....GTRE may have initiated efforts to develop indegenious engine for Nirbhay for future purpose when we will need Nirbhay in much larger numbers .

But for all practical purposes . Nirbhay is currently using imported engine and we have to take word of mouth od Dr Avinash Chander as final as against that of Dillinger's ( until he has something to prove the contrary )

Your post does not prove in any way how it is connected to Nirbhay missile at the moment .

thanks .




You must back up your assertion with valid proof , rather than conjectures .

In absence of direct proof I will take Dr Avinash Chander's word of mouth as against yours !!!

Valid proof lies in the SFC of all the NPO offered miniature turbines. If you know how to figure in ISA-ISO conditions, weight and altitude you can easily decipher exactly how far the missile will "cruise". This is one very basic step. Despite exceeding thrust requirements without the required SFC (irrespective of claims) no cruise missile will be cruising for long. The reporters (suspect as many are) from Ajai Shukla and et al have repeatedly reported upon GTRE's engine being used.


On the other hand I've spent years listening to Mr. Chander and Mr. Saraswat bellyaching about deploying all sorts of systems, all sorts of JVs. This is the same fellow who claimed that MMICs were being fabricated in-country, with all due respect to him people who actually are attached to the industry like me have to laugh at that. What fabrication, where?

Here, this should help,

SR = Nm. / Gal. * [1/hr] / [1/hr] = [nm/hr] / [gal/hr]

 

[he-man]

lol,,,,ladai ho gayi

 

[Dillinger]

There are still nine more planned flight-tests of the Nirbhay through to 2017. The first two are meant for validating the robustness of the missile’s airframe and that of its two-stage propulsion system (and hence are not equipped with digital terrain profile matching sensor and warheads. The next two, also to be conducted from ITR, will seek to validate the Nirbhay’s flight management system, inclusive of the digital terrain profile matching sensor (an X-band SAR). The following two will involve the fully integrated missile being test-fired (one over land & one over the sea) from a Su-30MKI, which will be followed by two SLCM versions being test-fired (one over land and one over the sea) from a submerged SSBN, the S-2/Arihant. The final two test-firings will involve fully integrated Nirbhays armed with live conventional warheads, with one being launched from a Su-30MKI and the other from the S-2/Arihant.

The Nirbhay’s nuclear warhead-armed ALCM version (minus the solid-rocket booster) will be qualified for use by 20 specially customised Su-30MKIs, while the nuclear warhead-armed SLCM variant (incorporating the solid-rocket booster) will go on board the S-2, S-3 and S-4 SSBNs. The air-launched and nuclear-armed Nirbhay will have a length of 6 metres, diameter of 0.55 metres, wingspan of 2.7 metres, launch mass of 1,200kg, cruise speed of Mach 0.7, and a 250kg warhead-section. Its cruising altitude over water will be 10 metres (33 feet), while its cruising altitude over land will be 30 metres (98 feet). The MoD-owned Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd’s (HAL) Bengaluru-based Engine Test Bed Research & Development Centre (ETBRDC) has developed a turbofan for powering all members of the Nirbhay cruise missile family. A hybrid inertial navigation system using a ring-laser gyro (RINS) coupled with a GPS receiver and a digital radar altimeter (all developed by the DRDO’s Research centre Imarat, or RCI, and integrated jointly by the Advanced Systems Laboratory, or ASL, and the Aeronautical Development Establishment, or ADE) will provide a CEP of 20 metres. All on-board avionics, inclusive of the ones mentioned above, plus the mission computer and missile interface unit, have been developed as spinoffs from the BrahMos-1 supersonic multi-role cruise missile’s R & D cycle, which lasted between 1998 and 2005.

While the ASQRs and NSQRs for the nuclear-armed Nirbhay were drafted by 2005, hands-on R & D work began in only 2007, with all R & D-related activity due for completion by late 2017. Following the entry into service of the nuclear-armed Nirbhay’s ALCM and SLCM versions, India’s Strategic Forces Command (SFC) will have at its disposal four distinct types of highly survivable nuclear warhead delivery systems that will be optimised for retaliatory nuclear strikes, these being the 4,500km-range SLBM now under development, the 600km-range air-launched supersonic LRCM that is also now under development (for delivering tactical nuclear warheads), plus the Nirbhay’s ALCM and SLCM versions, both of which will be able to deliver boosted-fission nuclear warheads.




Here is a revelation for those congenital retards hailing from India’s ‘desi’ print/electronic media who had claimed recently that 36MT turbofans or HAL-built PTAE-7 turbojets would power the Nirbhay cruise missile. Guess what! The two slides below from NPO Saturn clearly state that the 36MT turbofan was never meant to power long-range cruise missiles and neither does it power cruise missiles like Novator’s 3M14E or 3M54E.

TRISHUL: Maiden Test-Firing Of India’s Nirbhay Strategic Subsonic Cruise Missile A Moderate Success

The problem does not occur due to the "power" of the engines produced by NPO in this case but by their SFC, just because they power missiles with relatively smaller ranges does not mean they cannot power the Nirbhay, the issue is their SFC which makes it nigh impossible to use in a LRCM, unless NPO was nice enough to design an engine for us.

As for PSK, even if his articles supports my assertion I'd take anything he says with a pinch of salt, he's right only when he lifts it off other people.

lol,,,,ladai ho gayi

The lemur never fights.

 

[Indo-guy]

Valid proof lies in the SFC of all the NPO offered miniature turbines. If you know how to figure in ISA-ISO conditions, weight and altitude you can easily decipher exactly how far the missile will "cruise". This is one very basic step. Despite exceeding thrust requirements without the required SFC (irrespective of claims) no cruise missile will be cruising for long. The reporters (suspect as many are) from Ajai Shukla and et al have repeatedly reported upon GTRE's engine being used.


On the other hand I've spent years listening to Mr. Chander and Mr. Saraswat bellyaching about deploying all sorts of systems, all sorts of JVs. This is the same fellow who claimed that MMICs were being fabricated in-country, with all due respect to him people who actually are attached to the industry like me have to laugh at that. What fabrication, where?

If Nirbhay missile engine is indegenious as you claim .

You must back up your claim with valid proof .

what ever you have ranted so far ...no way proves that Nirbhay is using indigenous engine as against imported one .

Do not try to substantiate your claims with counterclaims pertaining to unrelated issues .


Dr Avinash Chander had quite clearly stated that there is no turbofan under development. He himself volunteered the fact that Nirbhay engine is imported one .

Mr Saurav Jha had specifically questioned him as to what is DRDO' long term plan regarding this as Nirbhay will have to inducted in large numbers in future . again he said that industry has to come forward .

I do not think why Dr Avinash Chnder will volunteer wrong information .


anyway , you stop going wrong about and try to intellectualize the do's and don'ts of engine and technicalities .


Question is simple - Does Nirbhay missile use imported engine or indigenous one ?


If you wish to negate statement of Dr Avinash Chander , you must provide specific proof .

Otherwise concede gracefully that you have nothing to back up your claim except your word of mouth !!!