What's new

India's arguments on Kashmir why they don't want to hold a plebiscite

Aa tujhe "Ajaad Kassmeer" or Baluchistan du.
Kabushan b aaya tha Baluchistan.
Idr Abhi-none-done b aaya tha Azad Kashmir.... Locals ny maar maar kr thobra or buttocks suja diye thy.
Pakistan army came to his recuse otherwise his corpse would have been hanging to some thorny tree.
Only Indian occupied Kashmir is contested but this time it won't be the only destination.
Muryas were our slaves in past times. We will love to have them again for our service.
There is no history of empires in Pakistan; it’s a country that has been invaded by Turks, Persians, Arabs, and Afghans over and over again. A country that never had the guts to even resist the Islamic invasion should be the last to talk about enslaving someone. Pathans were abducting your women and selling them in Kabul even in 1940.
 
.
@M. Sarmad

On Simla Agreement:
Ijaz Hussain addresses this in his book Kashmir Dispute: An International Law Perspective, and relevant paragraphs are reproduced below:



To begin with, the protagonists of the foregoing viewpoint contend that "the question of the accession of the State of Jammu and Kashmir to India or Pakistan will be decided… through a free and impartial plebiscite" under the UN auspices as stipulated in the Security Council resolutions has been replaced by the provision of the Simla Agreement of 1972 which lays down that the two countries are resolved to settle their differences by peaceful means through bilateral negotiations or by any other peaceful means mutually agreed upon between them." This has been termed as "bilateral approach" to the resolution of the Kashmir dispute as against the international or multilateral approach of the said UN Security Council resolutions on Kashmir. In other words, in this view the Simla Agreement, which is the latest treaty on Kashmir, excludes third party involvement including that of the United Nations and the resolutions adopted by any of its organs in the matter unless the two countries mutually decide otherwise. In short, in this view, the Kashmir question is no more than a purely bilateral matter to be resolved through peaceful means by India and Pakistan to the exclusion of all other approaches.

On the basis of the foregoing contention India seems to enjoy a good prima facie case in the matter. However, a close scrutiny of the Agreement demonstrates that the Indian contention is quite untenable. To begin with, paragraph 1 (i) of the Simla Agreement specifically provides "[t}hat the principles and purposes of the Charter of the United Nations shall govern the relations between the two countries." Article 2 of the Charter which spells out the principles of the Organization in its paragraph 2 provides that “[a}” Members… shall fulfil in good faith the obligations assumed by them in accordance with the present Charter." More precisely, article 103 of the Charter says in unambiguous terms: "In the event of a conflict between the obligations of the members of the United Nations under the present Charter and their obligations under any other international agreement, their obligations under the present Charter shall prevail." Article 103 by laying down the principle lex prior derogat posteriori (the later treaty shall be invalid if incompatible with the earlier treaty) goes against the general international law principle of ex posterior derogate priori (the later treaty invalidates the earlier treaty). In other words, article 103 attempts to regulate the question of compatibility between the Charter and other international agreements. As is clear from the language of this article, between the two categories of norms (namely those obligations undertaken by the members by virtue of the present Charter and those undertaken by any other international agreement) the former category prevails when the two are in conflict with each other. This is so because of the "constitutional" or "grundnorm" character of the Charter which its founding fathers intended as borne out by the travaux préparatoires of the San Francisco conference.
As to legal consequences of the conflict between the two norms, the international agreement in question becomes inapplicable but is not vitiated with invalidity. In other words, in case of conflict with obligations under the Charter, the treaty in question is neither abrogated nor rendered invalid. Only the obligations under it which are contrary to those under the Charter become inoperative… Given the fact that in international law an obligation to negotiate does not mean an obligation to reach an agreement, in all probability, India is not likely to agree any time with Pakistan to the grant of the right of self-determination to the people of Kashmir in terms of the pertinent UN resolutions. This is testified by the history of negotiations on Kashmir between the two countries since the advent of the Simla Agreement whereby India has been and remains extremely reluctant to enter into negotiations on the issue, let alone agreeing to the exercise of the right of self-determination by the people of Kashmir. Given this ground reality and even without taking it into account, what is the status of the Simla Agreement in international law, in view of the fact that the Agreement virtually denies the Kashmiri people a right which they enjoy under the UN Charter and which has a status of jus cogens?....

Taking up the question of compatibility of the Simla Agreement with the provisions of the UN Charter, one notices that article 2 of the Agreement by virtually denying this right to Kashmiris comes into conflict, for example, with article I, paragraph 2 of the Charter which spells out the purposes of the Organization in these terms: "To develop friendly relations among nations based on respect for the principle of equal rights and self-determination of peoples." It is also at variance with articles 55 and 56 of the Charter. By virtue of the former article, the UN members commit themselves to take a number of steps in order to create conditions of stability and well-being which are essential for peaceful and friendly relations among nations based on respect for the principle of equal rights and self-determination of peoples. And by virtue of the latter article, they pledge to take joint and separate action for the purposes set forth in article 55.

Similarly, as seen above, article 103 of the United Nations Charter unambiguously states that the obligations of the members have precedence over their obligations under any other international agreement. The Simla Agreement in its article I states "[t]hat the principles and purposes of the Charter of the United Nations shall govern the relations between the two countries." In view of the fact that article 2 of the Simla Agreement by effectively denying the right of self-determination to Kashmiris is violative of the United Nations Charter as well as its own article 1, it is therefore null and void.

Lastly, the right of self-determination which the people of Kashmir obtained by virtue of the pertinent United Nations resolutions has not been affected through the conclusion of the Simla Agreement for the reason that they were not a party to it and India and Pakistan are not entitled in international law to speak on their behalf. This argument has been accepted by the International Commission of Jurists in these words:

However, the peoples of Jammu and Kashmir were not parties to the Agreement and neither India nor Pakistan, both of which had conflicts of interest with the peoples of Jammu and Kashmir can be regarded as having authority to bind them. The members of the ICJ mission do not see, therefore, how the Simla Agreement can be regarded as having deprived the peoples of Jammu and Kashmir of any rights of self-determination to which they were entitled at the time of the Agreement.


Source: Hussain, Ijaz. (1998). Kashmir Dispute: An International Law Perspective. P.186, 187, 191, 195, 196.

India if they claim instrument of accession to be valid reason for Kashmir ownership should then immediately retreat from Junagadh and hand it over it Pakistan. Why the hypocrisy?


Ofc, I think there is no peaceful resolution to the issue. This will lead to focus on non-peaceful attempts.
If UN is so powerful with its resolution, tell them to take Kashmir and give it to Pakistan . Take Israel from Jews and give it to muslims .

Kashmir belongs to Pakistan .. real india are those smelly Malus..

This is true on every friday .
 
Last edited:
.
There is no history of empires in Pakistan; it’s a country that has been invaded by Turks, Persians, Arabs, and Afghans over and over again. A country that never had the guts to even resist the Islamic invasion should be the last to talk about enslaving someone. Pathans were abducting your women and selling them in Kabul even in 1940.
I can see you got the heat.
I have heard your this rhetoric before, many times. When you have nothing to argue you start babbling and crying like a woman. Our Mourya servants were a lot braver than you. Perhaps you are not a true mourya.
Don't worry man (?) we are not going to enslave you again.
And we were converted to Islam and no one forced us. You decided to stay ignorant so act like a lunatic now.
 
.
I can see you got the heat.
I have heard your this rhetoric before, many times. When you have nothing to argue you start babbling and crying like a woman. Our Mourya servants were a lot braver than you. Perhaps you are not a true mourya.
Don't worry man (?) we are not going to enslave you again.
And we were converted to Islam and no one forced us. You decided to stay ignorant so act like a lunatic now.
Which empire from Pakistan's history subjugated the Mauryans? Can you identify a single empire that originated from the region that is now Pakistan? It's worth noting that Pakistan didn't offer resistance during the Islamic invasions. The resistance against the Mughals, Turks, Arabs, and Afghans predominantly emerged from the region that constitutes present-day India. Similarly, Pakistan did not put up resistance against British colonial rule; instead, it was the people of present-day India who led the struggle against the British Raj.
 
.
Which empire from Pakistan's history subjugated the Mauryans? Can you identify a single empire that originated from the region that is now Pakistan? It's worth noting that Pakistan didn't offer resistance during the Islamic invasions. The resistance against the Mughals, Turks, Arabs, and Afghans predominantly emerged from the region that constitutes present-day India. Similarly, Pakistan did not put up resistance against British colonial rule; instead, it was the people of present-day India who led the struggle against the British Raj.
I can see 1000 years of Muslim Governance on radicals like you is sooooooooooooooo hurting. And the facts you put forward are like those uttered by a drunk and delusional. You already have embarrassed your countrymen a lot... My advice.... don't embarrass them more.
 
.
I can see 1000 years of Muslim Governance on radicals like you is sooooooooooooooo hurting. And the facts you put forward are like those uttered by a drunk and delusional. You already have embarrassed your countrymen a lot... My advice.... don't embarrass them more.
Indians fought and defeated Islamic invaders and protected their sacred territory, religion, customs, and people. Pakistanis cowardly surrendered before Islamists; that’s the only reason why India remained a majority Hindu country and Pakistan became a majority Muslim country.
 
.
Indians fought and defeated Islamic invaders and protected their sacred territory, religion, customs, and people. Pakistanis cowardly surrendered before Islamists; that’s the only reason why India remained a majority Hindu country and Pakistan became a majority Muslim country.
Man, you sre soooo funny.
Your talk makes me feel you are on high dose of your daily ''organic drink''.
If your mouryas were not our servants in the past I would not have responded to you that much.
 
.
Man, you sre soooo funny.
Your talk makes me feel you are on high dose of your daily ''organic drink''.
If your mouryas were not our servants in the past I would not have responded to you that much.
The history you Pakistanis have been taught, in which Pakistan ruled over India for 800 years, is ridiculous. It was not Pakistan that ruled over India for 800 years, but Pakistan that was assaulted and looted for 800 years by Afghans, Turks, and Arabs. They were the ones who forced you to join Islam and seized your women as londi (sex slaves), and you Pakistanis, strangely, commemorate those invaders.
 
.
The history you Pakistanis have been taught, in which Pakistan ruled over India for 800 years, is ridiculous. It was not Pakistan that ruled over India for 800 years, but Pakistan that was assaulted and looted for 800 years by Afghans, Turks, and Arabs. They were the ones who forced you to join Islam and seized your women as londi (sex slaves), and you Pakistanis, strangely, commemorate those invaders.
You are only making a fool out of yourself, Islam is the fastest expanding religion today by conversion. According to your history books all Muslims were converted at the point of sword. I'd say with close to 2B Muslims must be a very sharp sword.
 
.
Well yeah plebiscite is never going to happen. Pakistan ofc cannot defeat India and liberate Kashmir on its own, and needs to hope for a two-front war -- Pak-China vs India.



Kashmiri and Dogri Hindus will not look out of place in Pakistan or Afghanistan, and maybe not even in Iran. It's better if they united with Pakistan instead of remaining divided based on religion. It's much more practical to convert a few million to Islam than converting 240 million to Hinduism.

This exact mindset to convert all Hindus is the sole problem for which India should never allow its part of Kashmir to be gifted to Pakistan. Forget about the rest of the policies, procedures, and UN rules for us. Why would we allow a radical group of people in Kashmir valley who are interested to convert and force all the Hindus to Islam?
 
.
The history you Pakistanis have been taught, in which Pakistan ruled over India for 800 years, is ridiculous. It was not Pakistan that ruled over India for 800 years, but Pakistan that was assaulted and looted for 800 years by Afghans, Turks, and Arabs. They were the ones who forced you to join Islam and seized your women as londi (sex slaves), and you Pakistanis, strangely, commemorate those invaders.
Again high on cow piss drink.
I don't know why are you so rude. My elders treated you slaves with respect. Well. It is near time for another invasion.
 
.
Again high on cow piss drink.
I don't know why are you so rude. My elders treated you slaves with respect. Well. It is near time for another invasion.
I find it astonishing that the historical narratives taught in Pakistan perpetuate a misconception. The claim that Pakistan ruled India for 800 years is perplexing. Pakistan, as a nation, was established in 1947. In reality, every Muslim invader who attacked India targeted the region that now constitutes Pakistan. Those who resisted Islam were primarily from what is today considered India, while those who cowardly surrendered and embraced Islam often hailed from present-day Pakistan.
 
.
I find it astonishing that the historical narratives taught in Pakistan perpetuate a misconception. The claim that Pakistan ruled India for 800 years is perplexing. Pakistan, as a nation, was established in 1947. In reality, every Muslim invader who attacked India targeted the region that now constitutes Pakistan. Those who resisted Islam were primarily from what is today considered India, while those who cowardly surrendered and embraced Islam often hailed from present-day Pakistan.
I never said Pakistan ruled over you.
You are assuming too much. Same organic drink problem which you are consuming too much.
And yes Muslims ruled over you for more than 800 years and you cannot get over it.
And I will repeat.... we never mistreated our Mourya slaves.
 
.
This exact mindset to convert all Hindus is the sole problem for which India should never allow its part of Kashmir to be gifted to Pakistan. Forget about the rest of the policies, procedures, and UN rules for us. Why would we allow a radical group of people in Kashmir valley who are interested to convert and force all the Hindus to Islam?
The inferiority complex of being a converted Muslim race, combined with the fact that Muslims in the Indian subcontinent have been enslaved for the last 800 years, has created a massive inferiority complex, which is why these people want every Hindu, Sikh, and Buddhist in the subcontinent to accept Islam.
 
.
The inferiority complex of being a converted Muslim race, combined with the fact that Muslims in the Indian subcontinent have been enslaved for the last 800 years, has created a massive inferiority complex, which is why these people want every Hindu, Sikh, and Buddhist in the subcontinent to accept Islam.
Hindus were enslaved, you idiot... I always have to remind you. Now I suspect you are not a true mourya.... :azn:
 
.

Latest posts

Back
Top Bottom