India's AMCA Shape Tweaked Again?

[ANPP]

The Fact Is AMCA gives NO Clear Operational Advantage to IAF, You Are Confused with fighters and there Roles.

How "AURA" and Other UCAV's will the gap of LCA's ? When LCA is meant for Interception, Point Defence and Escorting Roles.

To Bridge the Gap Of between Low end and High End Fighters Iaf will have 126 + (x) No's Of Rafales, and Those are not Low in numbers. I wonder how YOU came to that conclusion. IAF don't Need Another type of fighter to replace Few squadrons of Migs and Jaguars. When Rafales ,AURA and Other UCAV's will fill the gap. Poor Planing!

>> LCA is meant for Interception, Point Defence and Escorting Roles. Thats the initial requirement of IAF which was changed after 2003 when LCA got few structural change becz of new requirement. Now it serve as a pure multi role not just pont defence & I think interception quality was either remove or decreases. You can see these changes through its develoment scheme. UAVS are able to perform CAS, airpatroling & another task easily so they are also good as light weight fighter.

>> & also see my another post, you will find your answer. & dont forget these birds means to be for future not now where tech is its hole new form.

 

[Wet Shirt Contest]

>> LCA is meant for Interception, Point Defence and Escorting Roles. Thats the initial requirement of IAF which was changed after 2003 when LCA got few structural change becz of new requirement. Now it serve as a pure multi role not just pont defence & I think interception quality was either remove or decreases. You can see these changes through its develoment scheme. UAVS are able to perform CAS, airpatroling & another task easily so they are also good as light weight fighter.

>> & also see my another post, you will find your answer. & dont forget these birds means to be for future not now where tech is its hole new form.

LCA Do got Some Multirole Capabilities, But It will Perform Semi Offensive Roles's At Most. as I mention.

In Previous Post, You Said UCaV's will Replace LCA "That is Incorrect", UCAV's can Perform A2G Strike Roles To SOME Extend, But Replacing It To a Light Fighter Is Questionable.

After Induction LCA will Serve atleast 20+ years in IAF , That's 2030 and Beyond, LCA is meant To perform Interception, Point Defence and Escorting Roles (as long as Jags are in Service).

AURA Will Complement Rafale and Other High End Fighters in A2G Strike Roles.
Don't Get Confused With Fighters and There Roles.

I also have a doubt on image it looks photo shop.

It's Camera angel, Image Is Not Photoshopped

 

[Wet Shirt Contest]

Double Post!

 

[ANPP]

LCA Do got Some Multirole Capabilities, But It will Perform Semi Offensive Roles's At Most. as I mention.

In Previous Post, You Said UCaV's will Replace LCA "That is Incorrect", UCAV's can Perform A2G Strike Roles To SOME Extend, But Replacing It To a Light Fighter Is Questionable.

After Induction LCA will Serve atleast 20+ years in IAF , That's 2030 and Beyond, LCA is meant To perform Interception, Point Defence and Escorting Roles (as long as Jags are in Service).

AURA Will Complement Rafale and Other High End Fighters in A2G Strike Roles.
Don't Get Confused With Fighters and There Roles.

I never say that AURA will replace LCA. I said that they can be use as light weight fighter as you also saying. & perhaps they will be unmanned in future.

It is very hard to operate heavy weight fighter from hilly airbases, while light weight ( single engine) can not fulfill all operational requirement as well as very **** to failure of engine. So choice of RAFALE & AMCA along with LCA & AURA is good.

RAFALE doesnt dedicate to A2G role. Also AURA is not the compliment for fighters it will initiate the hole new tradition in IAF.

 

[Wet Shirt Contest]

LCA, RAFALE, MKIs are 4 gen fighter, while AMCA is 5 gen fighter.

MKI is heavy fighter, while LCA is light weight fighter ( a huge payload gap b/w them). It is conformed that PAKFA & FGFA will be bigger than MKI.

By next decade we will have some ~500 heavy fighter. PAKFA will be air dominance fighter, while FGFA will work as swing roll fighter which is confirmed by IAF.

AURA & other uavs will fulfill the requirement of light weight fighter as well as LCA.

AS I mention earlier that we have lack of fighters which will serve as bridge b/w MKI & LCA. Right now we have MIG 29 only.
RAFALE also fulfill that gap but these are only in ~120, which is very low in number. Migs will be retired middle in next decade so condition will be worst. So induction of AMCA will fulfill that gap.

As IAF personal also mention they change the AMCA from partial stealth to complete stealth ( on par of PAKFA) & put the requirement of complete air dominance fighter in front of DRDO.

SO there is still a potent role in IAF for AMCA & delay is becz IAF change requirement which completly differ from what DRDO initially projected.

I never say that AURA will replace LCA. I said that they can be use as light weight fighter as you also saying. & perhaps they will be unmanned in future.

It is very hard to operate heavy weight fighter from hilly airbases, while light weight ( single engine) can not fulfill all operational requirement as well as very **** to failure of engine. So choice of RAFALE & AMCA along with LCA & AURA is good.

RAFALE doesnt dedicate to A2G role. Also AURA is not the compliment for fighters it will initiate the hole new tradition in IAF.

You Failed To Understand.

How AURA will Fulfill the Role Of Light Fighter I.e.. Interception, Point Defence and Escorting ???
At Present UCav's can Perform A2G mission To SOME EXTEND but They Cannot Replace/ Fulfill Role Of Light fighters in IAF, UCAV's Like AURA are Meant To Complement a STRIKE PACKAGE or Perform A2G missions alone. (In the end It Depends On How IAF Will Shape It's Doctrine) Specially After The Induction Of Stealth UCaV's

In addition: Only Thing Which Stops Ucav's From Taking Role Of a Manned Fighter is Technology.
as for Now technology is Not Matured Enough.

On 2nd Point "READ CAREFULLY" Next Time before Posting a Reply, I said

AURA Will Complement Rafale and Other High End Fighters in A2G Strike Roles.

 

[ANPP]

Final design & capabilities of AMCA will reveal in late this year so just wait upto little time, then you will find your answers.

 

[Wet Shirt Contest]

Final design & capabilities of AMCA will reveal in late this year so just wait upto little time, then you will find your answers.

Developing a Medium Class 5th Generation fighter For IAF is Result Of poor Planing , Anyway.
Do write a Lengthy Analysis On "Operational" need Of AMCA in IAF,

My Kind Regards

 

[IND151]

National Aerospace Laboratory (NAL) which showed a Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA) Image in their annual report , seems to be completely different from the previous images shown by Various DRDO agencies which are working on the Final Design configuration .

When idrw.org contacted it sources in various agencies we were told that Final Design configuration of India’s Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA) will be ready soon and once wind tunnel tests are done , Indian air force will be getting a report on AMCA .

AMCA design shown by ADA and DRDO agencies in last Aero India 2011 , might change due to changes requested by Indian air force in the Air Staff Requirements (ASR) submitted to the Agencies , from a Semi-stealth fighter aircraft , current ASR requested fully capable Stealth 5th Generation fighter aircraft.

ASR for AMCA was issued by Indian air force in end of 2010 , and the images and models shown by Agencies in Aero India 2011 was based on preliminary design phase. it likely that new tweaked AMCA models and images will be shown in next Aero India which will be held in 2013

Sources also informed idrw.org that many Designs are in consideration ( 3 or 4 has told few times back) and final call will be taken soon and recent image is one of the Designs currently under going Wind tunnel and other Virtual testing for Stealth optimization and it is not final design configuration .

Idrw.org is hoping that current mystery will be solved in Aero India next year or in the coming months soon , DRDO is currently planning three Prototypes of AMCA which will carry out initial test flights .

 

[IND151]

Final Design configuration of India’s Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA) remains mystery | idrw.org

 

[IND151]

^^ Buddy just one correction. the PAKFA/FGFA is actually much smaller and ligher than any Flanker out there.



^^Not a high-res pic but tells the story.

PAK FA is not much smaller than SU 30 MKI

and it weighs not much less (wrt Su 30)

see the comparison

PAK FA

General characteristics

Crew: 1
Length: 19.8 m (65.9 ft)
Wingspan: 14 m (46.6 ft)
Height: 6.05 m (19.8 ft)
Wing area: 78.8 m2 (848.1 ft2)
Empty weight: 18,500 kg (40,785 lb)
Loaded weight: 26,000 kg (57,320 lb)
Useful load: 7,500 kg (combat load) (16,534 lb)
Max. takeoff weight: 37,000 kg (81,570 lb)
Powerplant: 2 × AL-41F1 for prototypes[N 1][101] turbofan, 147 kN (33,047 lb) for prototypes;[102] 157+ kN (34,620+ lbf) for definitive engine version[102] each
Fuel capability: 10,300 kg (22,711 lb)[99]
Performance

Maximum speed: Mach 2+, 2,100-2,600 km/h[99][101][103] (1,300-1,560 mph) ; at 17,000 m (45,000 ft) altitude
Cruise speed: 1,300-1,800 km/h[101] (808-1,118 mph)
Ferry range: 5,500 km[64] (3,417 mi)
Service ceiling: 20,000 m (65,600 ft)
Rate of climb: 350 m/s (68,900 ft/min)
Wing loading: 330-470 kg/m2 (67-96 lb/ft2)
Thrust/weight: 1.19[99]
Maximum g-load: 9+ g[99]

SU 30 MKI

Data from KNAAPO,[70] and Sukhoi[71]
General characteristics

Crew: 2
Length: 21.935 m (72.97 ft)
Wingspan: 14.7 m (48.2 ft)
Height: 6.36 m (20.85 ft)
Wing area: 62.0 m² (667 ft²)
Empty weight: 18,400 kg[72] (40,565 lb)
Loaded weight: 24,900 kg (54,895 lb)
Max. takeoff weight: 38,800 kg (85,600 lb)
Powerplant: 2 × Lyulka AL-31FP turbofans with thrust vectoring, 123 kN with afterburner (27,500 lbf) each
Performance

Maximum speed: Mach 1.9[71] (2,120 km/h, 1,320 mph[70]) at altitude; 1,350 km/h, 839 mph near ground level[70]
Range: 3,000 km (1,620 nmi) at altitude; (1,270 km, 690 nmi near ground level; with no external fuel tanks)
Endurance: 3.75 hrs (up to 10 hrs with in-flight refueling)
Service ceiling: 17,300 m (56,800 ft)
Rate of climb: >300 m/s (>45,275 ft/min)
Wing loading: 401 kg/m² (82.3 lb/ft²)
Thrust/weight: 1.0

 

[ANPP]

Present scenario in IAF-
~150 MKI ~50 MIRAJ ~60 MIG29
~130 JAGUAR ~90 MIG 27 ~150 MIG 21
~30 LCA(before 2014)

NOW come to 1st MKI......
MKI is the latest fighter of IAF & also most potent fighter. It is design to serve all type of mission but in CAS & INTERDICTION these birds are very inadequate( due to high operational cost & high radar & IR sign).

So in INTERDICTION & SURGICAL STRIKE type mission IAF mostly depends on MIRAJ. (becz MIG27 has serious setback due to regular engine failure after upgrade from ukrain; most of JAGUARs are now deployed for MARITIME SUPPORT; although MIG 29 are upgraded but there platform reduces them only upto air-defence, SEADs etc.)
Induction of LCA is very slow right now & also its design limited its role only up to air defense(for airbases, AWACS & tankers forget about escort duty) & CAS until there is urgent requirement of fighters.

Now seen top figure. MIG27 & most JAGUARs will require replacement from next decade. Even I believe that MIG27 will retire before BISON, & BISON can serve upto ~2020.
So DRDO initially put the presentation of medium 5th gen fighter which is dedicated to strike mission having low stealth.


Meanwhile from the IAF wants to induct the platform which is capable of multi-role/swig role.
Only MIRAG & MKI fulfill this term right now.
In near future IAF will induct LCA mk2, RAFALE, PAKFA, FGFA. These all will be multirole/omnirole/swingrole( although I have doubt multirole capability in initial prototype of PAKFA).
RAFALE(MMRCA) solve the headache of IAF on surgical strike so now they need hole new fighter which will be multirole.


Proposal of AMCA & joint development of PAKFA was put in front IAF nearly same time. So the suitable question is when DRDO developing AMCA than why we need joint develoment of PAKFA. because we already operating large fleet of heavy fighters.

So IAF change the AMCA project for their own requirement, initially they want it air-dominance fighter with more stealth feature.
But same time China trying to develop 5 gen fighter & output is in form of J20. Thats the most toughest tituation for IAF becz CAPABILITY OF DRDO TO DEVELOP FIGHTER is still not trust-able. So INDIA agree for to develop PAKFA with Russia, but most of work was already completed on PAKFA( which put it similar to MKI project nothing for INDIA except rights of production) , so IAF also went for another derivative of this project FGFA.

Development of J20 was the very crucial factor, which leads IAF again to change the requirement for AMCA with complete stealth (like F22) & multirole platform.

On the question of suitability of AMCA in IAF, just see THE MIRAJ(from 80s to this time) & RAFALE. That staus will go to AMCA in future( if all goes to the plan).
Although your claim is right that bad planning of IAF leads AMCA towards near death, but thats the starting, thats happen every where becz you only can change your plan in initial phase otherwise that will give serious setback in development phase as just what happen with LCA in time as well money.

On AURA project, it is still most secret project in DRDO( which is known). IAF gives the most attention in this project even compare to other (like PAKFA, FGFA & AMCA).

 

[sancho]

I never say that AURA will replace LCA. I said that they can be use as light weight fighter

Which is wrong, because it has no A2A capability at all, it's just a ground attack aircraft!

Also AURA is not the compliment for fighters

Yes it is, just like armed drones that will take away most of the CAS roles from manned fighters, AURA will take away SEAD, deep strike and the nuclear roles from manned fighters as well. They will be supported or even controlled by FGFA, but from a safe distance and with it's own advantages. FGFA and AURA are perfectly complementing IAFs 5th gen aircraft fleet and AURA is more cost-effective than AMCA as well. Not to mention that all stealth fighters are way more costly to maintain and operate than 4th gen fighters, which means that AMCA might be more expensive than Rafale and MKI as well.
As Wet Shirt Contest said, yo are confusion many things here and include many mistiakes as well. The Jag for example are all meant for the strike role, just 12 of a fleet of more than 100 are meant for the maritime attack role and even they will soon be put in the 2nd role, when Mig 29s are upgraded, MKI, Rafale and LCA MK1 are inducted. The fact is, IAF will have only multi role fighters by 2025 except of the Jags and all of them can be used in air defence or strike roles too!

 

[Don777]

National Aerospace Laboratory (NAL) which showed a Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA) Image in their annual report , seems to be completely different from the previous images shown by Various DRDO agencies which are working on the Final Design configuration .

When idrw.org contacted it sources in various agencies we were told that Final Design configuration of India’s Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA) will be ready soon and once wind tunnel tests are done , Indian air force will be getting a report on AMCA .

AMCA design shown by ADA and DRDO agencies in last Aero India 2011 , might change due to changes requested by Indian air force in the Air Staff Requirements (ASR) submitted to the Agencies , from a Semi-stealth fighter aircraft , current ASR requested fully capable Stealth 5th Generation fighter aircraft.

ASR for AMCA was issued by Indian air force in end of 2010 , and the images and models shown by Agencies in Aero India 2011 was based on preliminary design phase. it likely that new tweaked AMCA models and images will be shown in next Aero India which will be held in 2013

Sources also informed idrw.org that many Designs are in consideration ( 3 or 4 has told few times back) and final call will be taken soon and recent image is one of the Designs currently under going Wind tunnel and other Virtual testing for Stealth optimization and it is not final design configuration .

Idrw.org is hoping that current mystery will be solved in Aero India next year or in the coming months soon , DRDO is currently planning three Prototypes of AMCA which will carry out initial test flights .

I feel peety about org like DRDO and HAL. Its IA and IAF who keep on changing the requirements and these poor fellows keep all bashing from all over the world for delays. Some times IA and IAF behaves like small kid, who wants evry toy he sees in the world, and keep asking more and more. All these ends delay or failure of projects and in the end evry one bashes these DRDO and HAL for incompetence.

 

[doublemaster]

I feel peety about org like DRDO and HAL. Its IA and IAF who keep on changing the requirements and these poor fellows keep all bashing from all over the world for delays. Some times IA and IAF behaves like small kid, who wants evry toy he sees in the world, and keep asking more and more. All these ends delay or failure of projects and in the end evry one bashes these DRDO and HAL for incompetence.

They are designing aircraft with limited past experience.
How many times west would have changed their desgin in their initial time?
We entered late, but our lerning curve will remain same. May be little faster because some info is available.
No point in criticizing them.

 

[KRAIT]

People at one time say India is decades behind West and China but when these changes are made, new plane is developed, they forget their own argument and start bashing India. Its a "Stealth Advance Multi-role Aircraft" which means its damn hard to build especially for a nation which is having difficulties in normal 4 gen. aircraft.