What's new

India’s Aircraft Carriers: A Giant Waste of Time?

INDIAPOSITIVE

ELITE MEMBER
Joined
Sep 20, 2014
Messages
9,318
Reaction score
-28
Country
India
Location
India
SOURCE: THE NATIONAL INTEREST

INS_Vikrant_being_undocked_at_the_Cochin_Shipyard_Limited_in_2015_%2807%29.jpg


The Indian Navy has put out a proposal for its third aircraft carrier, tentatively titled the Vishal due to enter service in the latter 2020s. The 65,000-ton Vishal will be significantly larger than India’s sole current carrier, the Vikramaditya known formerly as the ex-Soviet Admiral Gorshkov, and the incoming second one, the domestically-built Vikrantwhich is expected to enter service later in 2018.

The Indian Navy has put out a proposal for its third aircraft carrier, tentatively titled the Vishal due to enter service in the latter 2020s. The 65,000-ton Vishal will be significantly larger than India’s sole current carrier, the Vikramaditya known formerly as the ex-Soviet Admiral Gorshkov, and the incoming second one, the domestically-built Vikrantwhich is expected to enter service later in 2018.

The Indian Navy is searching for a foreign-sourced twin-engine fighter for the Vishal, with the U.S. F/A-18 and French Rafale in the running , and India has already ordered 36 multi-role Rafales for its air force. This is a blow to advocates of an Indian-made fighter for the carrier such as naval version of the delta-wing HAL Tejas, which is too heavy for carrier work

But regardless of what kind of fighters Vishal uses, the question is whether India really needs a third carrier, which will cost billions of dollars over its lifetime. To be sure, a third and much larger carrier will free up the burden on the Vikramaditya and Vikrant, only one of which is likely to be battle-ready at any given time.

These smaller carriers probably have fewer operational fighters than they do on paper, given that the air wings likely have serviceability rates below 100 percent. Vikramaditya by itself could have significantly less than 24 MiGs capable of flying — and fighting.

Now imagine a scenario in which these carriers go to battle.

Most likely, India would attempt to enforce a blockade of Pakistan and use its carriers to strike land-based targets. But Pakistan has several means to attack Indian carriers — with near-undetectable submarines and anti-ship missiles — which must also operate relatively far from India itself in the western and northern Arabian Sea. China does not have a similar disadvantage, as the PLAN would likely keep its carriers close and within the “first island chain” including Taiwan, closer to shore where supporting aircraft and ground-based missile launchers can help out.

Thus, Indian carriers would be relatively vulnerable and only one of them will have aircraft capable of launching with standard ordnance and fuel. And that is after Vishal sets sail in the next decade.

To directly threaten Pakistan, the small-deck carriers will have to maneuver nearer to shore — and thereby closer to “anti-access / area denial” weapons which could sink them. And even with a third carrier, the threat of land-based Pakistani aircraft will force the Indian Navy to dedicate a large proportion of its own air wings to defense — perhaps half of its available fighters, according to 2017 paper by Ben Wan Beng Ho for the Naval War College Review.

“Therefore, it is doubtful that any attack force launched from an Indian carrier would pack a significant punch,” Ho writes. “With aircraft available for strike duties barely numbering into the double digits, the Indian carrier simply cannot deliver a substantial ‘pulse’ of combat power against its adversary.”

Essentially, this makes Indian carriers’ self-defeating, with the flattops existing primarily to defend themselves from attack rather than taking the fight to their enemy. Carriers are also expensive symbols of national prestige, and it is unlikely the Indian Navy will want to risk losing one, two or all three. Under the circumstances, India’s investment in carriers makes more sense symbolically, and primarily as a way of keeping shipyards busy and shipyard workers employed.

However, this is not to entirely rule out a carrier-centric naval strategy. Ho notes that Indian carriers could be useful when operating far out at sea and in the western Arabian Sea, effectively as escort ships for commercial shipping and to harass Pakistani trade. Nevertheless, this strategy comes with a similar set of problems.

“In any attempt to impose sea control in the northern Arabian Sea and to interdict Pakistani seaborne commerce by enforcing a blockade of major Pakistani maritime nodes, Indian carrier forces would have to devote a portion of their already meager airpower to attacking Pakistani vessels, thereby exacerbating the conundrum alluded to earlier,” Ho added. “What is more, Pakistani ships are likely to operate relatively close to their nation’s coast, to be protected by Islamabad’s considerable access-denial barrier.”

Another possibility is India massing its carriers in the later stages of a war after the Army and Air Force pummel and degrade the Pakistani military.

But this raises the question as to whether India strictly needs carriers at all if it cannot use them during the decisive periods of a conflict — as opposed to, say, less-expensive warships, and more of them, equipped with long-range missiles.
 
. . .
I think the Vishal could be a very powerful carrier as long as it has the right aircraft on board.

It's aircraft complement will be around 50-55 and that means at least 3 squadrons(36) will be fighters. When combined with the 24 Mig-29s on the other smaller carrier that makes a very powerful CVBG. Remember that the carriers will be protected by escorts of submarines, frigates and destroyers.
 
. . .
Indian navy is quite capable of sinking their own ships due to incompetency , how much to bet that in a few years we will hear indian navy has sunk its own aircraft carrier , ?
well said , and good choice of the nickname , justifies your level of comments and understanding . although you are an honest person !
 
.
well said , and good choice of the nickname , justifies your level of comments and understanding . although you are an honest person !

yes and good choice of profile picture which truly reflects you, as you are an honest person !

I think the Vishal could be a very powerful carrier as long as it has the right aircraft on board.

It's aircraft complement will be around 50-55 and that means at least 3 squadrons(36) will be fighters. When combined with the 24 Mig-29s on the other smaller carrier that makes a very powerful CVBG. Remember that the carriers will be protected by escorts of submarines, frigates and destroyers.

Still , only a few misslie from shore batteries/subs needs to get through to take the carrier down

billon dollar carrier sunk by missiles that cost less than 1/10 of that price !

instead of wasting cash on carriers IN could easily have invested that cash on more Subs frigates and destroyers.

litterally overwhelm PN with its presence

but oh well...
 
. .
Still , only a few misslie from shore batteries/subs needs to get through to take the carrier down

billon dollar carrier sunk by missiles that cost less than 1/10 of that price !

instead of wasting cash on carriers IN could easily have invested that cash on more Subs frigates and destroyers.

litterally overwhelm PN with its presence

but oh well...

Not that easy to sink a carrier as it comes with escorts.

Let us take a look at the likely Indian CVBG against Pakistan say in the year 2030.

You are looking at 100 aircraft in total with 60 fighters across the 2 carriers.

Under the sea you will have 3-4 submarines - both diesel and SSNs that can attack both submarines and surface ships.

On the surface there will be 6-8 escorts comprising both destroyers and frigates. These will pack anti-submarine helicopters and 100s of medium and long range SAMs to take out aircraft and missiles.

Over the whole fleet you will get AWACs that will be able to detect sea skimming missiles and pass targeting data onto any of the escort ships and fighters to shoot these down.

The carrier itself will have it's own anti-submarine helicopters and also close range weapons systems to shoot down aircraft and missiles. Locating the carriers will also not be that easy as they will be tiny in a massive ocean. Once located they will of course move at 15-20 metres per second and so the missile needs to constantly search for it.

With the size of carriers like Vishal you will need 6-12 hits to be in with a good chance of sinking the giant carrier. The chances of this number going through the multi-layered defence is very remote. It can happen but not that likely.
 
.
Not that easy to sink a carrier as it comes with escorts.

Let us take a look at the likely Indian CVBG against Pakistan say in the year 2030.

You are looking at 100 aircraft in total with 60 fighters across the 2 carriers.

Under the sea you will have 3-4 submarines - both diesel and SSNs that can attack both submarines and surface ships.

On the surface there will be 6-8 escorts comprising both destroyers and frigates. These will pack anti-submarine helicopters and 100s of medium and long range SAMs to take out aircraft and missiles.

Over the whole fleet you will get AWACs that will be able to detect sea skimming missiles and pass targeting data onto any of the escort ships and fighters to shoot these down.

The carrier itself will have it's own anti-submarine helicopters and also close range weapons systems to shoot down aircraft and missiles.

With the size of carriers like Vishal you will need 6-12 hits to be in with a good chance of sinking the giant carrier. The chances of this number going through the multi-layered defence is very remote. It can happen but not that likely.


yes you are right

but in war things rarely play out by the book

much safer bet would have been more subs frigates and destroyers , overwhelm PN simply by numbers. nullyfying shore defenses. How many can PN sink ?
 
.
yes you are right

but in war things rarely play out by the book

much safer bet would have been more subs frigates and destroyers , overwhelm PN simply by numbers. nullyfying shore defenses. How many can PN sink ?


It is a question of doctrine.

With a CBVG with 60-70 fighters onboard, India can divert a lot of Pakistani resources on it's far west near the Gulf. By forcing Pakistan to divert so many forces to deal with the carrier group, India will have a much easier time fighting the Pakistanis on the Western border.

India is neither right or wrong to go with carriers. A bit like the UK RN wanted 2 large carriers so was forced to halve it's purchase of destroyers and frigates to pay for them.
 
.
It is a question of doctrine.

With a CBVG with 60-70 fighters onboard, India can divert a lot of Pakistani resources on it's far west near the Gulf. By forcing Pakistan to divert so many forces to deal with the carrier group, India will have a much easier time fighting the Pakistanis on the Western border.

India is neither right or wrong to go with carriers. A bit like the UK RN wanted 2 large carriers so was forced to halve it's purchase of destroyers and frigates to pay for them.
I doubt PN will take them on in open seas. much more likely near the coast where they can be backed up by shore dfenses and land based aircraft.
 
.
I think the Vishal could be a very powerful carrier as long as it has the right aircraft on board.

It's aircraft complement will be around 50-55 and that means at least 3 squadrons(36) will be fighters. When combined with the 24 Mig-29s on the other smaller carrier that makes a very powerful CVBG. Remember that the carriers will be protected by escorts of submarines, frigates and destroyers.
Sure it looks powerful on paper. Any 3 years old kid can do that with fantasy spec. I dare to bet with you after another 10 years, this ship will yet to even start sea trial.
 
.
I doubt PN will take them on in open seas. much more likely near the coast where they can be backed up by shore dfenses and land based aircraft.


PN has no chance of course against Indian CVBG in the Open Ocean.

My scenario is an Indian CVBG steaming towards the Pakistan coast on the far Western side - it is still 300-400km away from the Pakistani coast but this allows it's 60-70 strike fighters to launch and attack land targets in Pakistan using missiles and bombs.

This force would be so powerful that Pakistan would have to devote a major chunk of it's airforce and air-defences to deal with this.

In this scenario, India has used it's CVBG to force Pakistan to take a large chunk of it's forces away from the border with India.

Sure it looks powerful on paper. Any 3 years old kid can do that with fantasy spec. I dare to bet with you after another 10 years, this ship will yet to even start sea trial.

India will only be making the hull and maybe a few sensors for the Vishal. Potentially it may even be able to mount a radar and combat management system as well since it will not come into service till around 2030.

Engines will be US, EMALs will come from US and the fighters will be either French(Rafale) or US (F-35).

With all the hard parts done by other countries and the experience that India has accrued by building the 40,000 tonne Vikrant, India can do it by the time specified.
 
.

Pakistan Defence Latest Posts

Pakistan Affairs Latest Posts

Back
Top Bottom