Indians being brainwashed into believing Pakistan is the enemy: Naseeruddin Shah

[jamahir]

okay... i tire of explaining of the same thing... i quit this thread.

 

[Stephen Cohen]

okay... i tire of explaining of the same thing... i quit this thread.

Dont worry ; be happy

We UNDERSTAND you very well

 

[doppelganger]

okay... i tire of explaining of the same thing... i quit this thread.

Without answering who you would kill.

Point noted. Loud and clear.

 

[Bombaywalla]

Naseeruddin uncle's been smokin' waaay too much pot.

 

[Kao Boy]

Being an Indian I personally think that Pakistan has welcomed India many a times to resolve long standing issues and so did India however at times or in fact many a times Pakistan's insecurity towards India to become important player in the region let her deteriorate from path of peace with India.. Important think to notice is that both country needs to control their religious leaders to spit venom against each other.. We have numerous examples of maulvi of lal masjid and VHP..

 

[farhan_9909]

usually when i am alone,i think as to why we are born as Pakistanis and than too neighbor to a country like india?are we cursed for our ancestors sins to be the neighbor of india?

 

[haviZsultan]

I am glad Jinnah said "we shall not ask a Hindu in Pakistan if he will kill an Indian Hindu in war time" so we aren't asking our minorities the question about their loyalty to land and people. Some people do but are mislead.

Dopellgangers question, if they hold a gun to hindu heads who will you kill, well not all muslims from Lucknow or other parts are like me. My mamoo was a supporter of India (in the end he was killed by the same India he vouched for and trusted but he was a loyal Indian) and there are others too in my khandaan.

I believe the question that minorities are not loyal to land and nation should not be asked and instead all should be done to integrate them. Look at Nelson Mandela and Gandhi jis solution. Gandhi stood for khilafat despite being a Hindu. Nelson's south africa treats muslims so well they seem to be extremely loyal to state. New Zealand has 70% halal meat in markets. Some form of appeasement is necessary. I have a friend on this site @Dalit who defends nation of Pakistan but avoids hindu topics because in Pakistan unfortunately there is no appeasement (for that matter there isn't in Indian occupied parts as well)... I think it is the duty of state and people to protect minorities in their country, regardless of their worldview.

The solution to disloyal minorities, like my father mother and grandfathers... is to treat them so well that they forget thoughts of loyalty to another country. This is what we should do.

 

[Kao Boy]

It is good to read now a days that Pakistan is taking it's internal security seriously and striving to eradicate terrorism.. And looking forward to resolve issues which ISI military ignored for such a long time...

 

[Razia Sultana]

You know, there is this chap from your community who had the courage to come out and say that the change has to come from within. There's another thread running on him somewhere.

That is called taking ownership of the situation and understanding rationality.

Even the most vicious saffron nationalists know that there are good people inside your community who don't want to create this issue. But these people don't come out and speak in the open against wrongs. Reforming any community and any society is important.

Hindus did, we did, Xtians in Europe did, Jews after quite some time did.

Only your community hasn't. And it has become a sad problem for everyone and not just India.

Reforming doesn't mean changing faith; it simply means revising the scripts as per the changing times.

Ref the highlights above:

Chap from my community? My community on this forum is Indian and there are so many around here.

When there is commotion, no one hears anything or they just hear what they like in order to keep the negative passions aflame.

I dont understand when you think of Muslims what comes to your mind. Is it APJ Abdul Kalam or Akbaruddin Owaisi? Is it Veer Abdul hameed, PVC or Haji Yaqub Qureshi. Choice is yours and based on your choice you will generalize about a paticular community. Good and bad exist in all communities.

 

[doppelganger]

The solution to disloyal minorities, like my father mother and grandfathers... is to treat them so well that they forget thoughts of loyalty to another country. This is what we should do.

No.

The solution is what happened in reality.

Make the environment conducive to persuade them to move.

 

[Kao Boy]

I am glad Jinnah said "we shall not ask a Hindu in Pakistan if he will kill an Indian Hindu in war time" so we aren't asking our minorities the question about their loyalty to land and people. Some people do but are mislead.

Dopellgangers question, if they hold a gun to hindu heads who will you kill, well not all muslims from Lucknow or other parts are like me. My mamoo was a supporter of India (in the end he was killed by the same India he vouched for and trusted but he was a loyal Indian) and there are others too in my khandaan.

I believe the question that minorities are not loyal to land and nation should not be asked and instead all should be done to integrate them. Look at Nelson Mandela and Gandhi jis solution. Gandhi stood for khilafat despite being a Hindu. Nelson's south africa treats muslims so well they seem to be extremely loyal to state. New Zealand has 70% halal meat in markets. Some form of appeasement is necessary. I have a friend on this site @Dalit who defends nation of Pakistan but avoids hindu topics because in Pakistan unfortunately there is no appeasement (for that matter there isn't in Indian occupied parts as well)... I think it is the duty of state and people to protect minorities in their country, regardless of their worldview.

The solution to disloyal minorities, like my father mother and grandfathers... is to treat them so well that they forget thoughts of loyalty to another country. This is what we should do.

Very well said ... I agree with you on this... PAKISTAN WAS formed on the basis of Religion and not language or caste.. It should not matter which minority tribe or sect they belong to but at the end they are too Muslims... And as far as Hindu and christians are concerned they chose to be in Pakistan over India where they would have felt more secure bieng in majority but they remained loyal to the land which you,mentioned hence Pakistan and its regime and all,political party should respect that... But its an irony that like in Israel all Jews are welcomed despite of nationality .. It is not the case with Pakistan

 

[haviZsultan]

No.

The solution is what happened in reality.

Make the environment conducive to persuade them to move.

There is no way muslims will move from their own land. The reason we stayed despite supporting the muslim league with 90%+ UP muslim votes and believing Pakistan was our country was that we also viewed Lucknow, Hyderabad, Delhi and many other regions also as our home. I still consider myself Lucknowi in many aspects despite adopting some Pashtun culture.

I think the solution is not creating an environment that is conducive for minorities to move from India to Pakistan or Pakistan to India. It is to ensure they have no complaints in their nation. Because in reality no matter how persuaded, there will be some who prefer to remain in said country. There is no way to make each and every one of the 170 million muslims in parts occupied by India to move.

 

[doppelganger]

There is no way muslims will move from their own land.

There is no way to make each and every one of the 170 million muslims in parts occupied by India to move.

Yet your side of the family did.

 

[Razia Sultana]

DO you know What is the THIRD category of people

1 Patriots
2 Traitors
3 Fence sitters who are looking for the BEST BARGAIN from both sides

Is that who you are

hmmm.... so in your opinion Advani, Jaswant Singh and Naseeruddin Shah are traitors... you can count Gen V K Singh also for attending Pakistan Day party along with Hurriyat people wearing a green jacket.

Or there are different yard sticks for hindus and muslims when it comes to being patriotic?

 

[haviZsultan]

Very well said ... I agree with you on this... PAKISTAN WAS formed on the basis of Religion and not language or caste.. It should not matter which minority tribe or sect they belong to but at the end they are too Muslims... And as far as Hindu and christians are concerned they chose to be in Pakistan over India where they would have felt more secure bieng in majority but they remained loyal to the land which you,mentioned hence Pakistan and its regime and all,political party should respect that... But its an irony that like in Israel all Jews are welcomed despite of nationality .. It is not the case with Pakistan

I tend to agree with the last part. My mother had the most trouble migrating from Lucknow to Karachi since she lived in Lucknow with Indian passport most of her life. Pakistan was not only made for muslims oppressed by India but also for all minorities who felt oppressed. If you feel this is untrue then ask Zafarullah Khan, Joginder Nath Mandal and Joseph Pottan why they supported Pakistan. You should also ask why Jinnah invited Sikhs to build a Pakistan.

The problem was Ayub Khan closed the borders before all muslim families could migrate to Pakistan. The border was supposed to remain open to muslim or other families who wanted to migrate to Pakistan. Also you are right about the loyalty of Christians and Hindus of Pakistan. Read about Kaneria's interview... anyway even if we disagree that the Christians and Hindus of Pakistan are well treated we should agree that they must be provided equal if not special rights.