Water Car Engineer
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@Abingdonboy brother
the casualties of IA is killing me right now, just two days back we have lost two son of soil, right now a young cap of 10th para.Why this rate is so high 3 soldiers in a couple of days
Isn't the right time for the RRs and PARAs or CRPF deployed in valley should revisit there SOPs. What about introducing APCs in room/building intervention process.
I was about to ask the gurus here something similar. What is causing these many casualties even among the most elite of our units? What is being done at the infantry level to prevent loss of life? Very pained seeing brave young men going away so frequently.
That's is unfathombly young to be losing your life in this way, RIP warriors.
Should have used armoured vehicle or tanks
It was stupidity to take direct infantry action
Nonsense, this is what the SF lives for.Its a stupid idea to use SF.
The NSG would be a good choice also but the IA would never ask for NSG help- the entire state is under their command.Indeed . If you take example of last few encounters we had zero casualties.@Abingdonboy what you think of usING NSG instead who are better suited for such door to door operation? One good unit to station there only in case of such hostage situations. Not the search and cordon operations. I think if PARA had protective bullet proof shields, these casualties should have avoided.
Why not just use snipers? Or if the area is free from civilians - then use gas instead of destroying the building with mortar firing.This is the building. There are no buildings nearby as cover. Rooftop abseiling also is difficult. The terrorists have clear field view and therefore no blind spots. So the room intervention is difficult for them. The army is now resorting to mortar attack. That's the best thing to do.
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Capt.Pawan Kumar was a lucky guy.RIP Capt Pawan Kumar, 10 Para (SF):
So f*cking young
Rest in Peace!RIP Capt Pawan Kumar, 10 Para (SF):
One needs to understand the nature of these operations and the Indian Mil's COIN doctrine.
The established COIN doctrine adhered to by Indian forces is to use the minimal force possible- no airpower, no heavy arty- the most they will use is 120mm morters or 40mm grenades.
Remember, this is a war being fought on Indian soil, they cannot destroy each and every building with terrorists in it- at least not as a first resort especially when you don't know if all the innocents are safe. Addtionally a lost of emphasis is placed on capturing these vermin alive, where possible, and thus the result is protracted operations and close quarter combat in many instances.
One may have become accustomed to the Western SF/military way of fighting in foreign lands- overwhelming force ("shock and awe"), little consideration given to collateral damage, standoff weapon employment etc etc but this is not how the Indian Mil fights.
Let's not forget- the Security forces evacuated 120+ civlians out from this building which clearly where the target of these rats.
SF are the tip of the spear and are not superhuman- they are as prone to injury as anyone else. This is a tragic operation but it was a success at the end of the day and is just onf of 1000s of missions SF teams conduct every year.
That's is unfathombly young to be losing your life in this way, RIP warriors.
Armoured vehicles were used but that doesn't help in room to room fighting.
Nonsense, this is what the SF lives for.
Of course we are all sad that these scum have taken the lives of some of the best of us but do not forget that they all died as warriors- on their feet and fighting an enemy that seeks to harm their nation, this is how these men would have wanted to go.
The NSG would be a good choice also but the IA would never ask for NSG help- the entire state is under their command.
RIP Capt Pawan Kumar, 10 Para (SF):
So f*cking young
@Levina @anant_s @Vauban @MilSpec @PARIKRAMA @Guynextdoor2 @nair @Taygibay @SpArK @AUSTERLITZ @knight11
Why not just use snipers? Or if the area is free from civilians - then use gas instead of destroying the building with mortar firing.
There were civilians near the encounter area who were resorting to stone pelting and sloganeering. Chances are these civilians alerted the militants while 9&10 Para (SF) units were attempting room intervention.The point here is PARA SF has handleded hostage situation earlier with either less casualty or almost no casualty so my question is what makes this operation so complex that the Elite's has to take such a high casualty . Is the Terrorist getting better than our Elite guys ? or Should we revisit some Flaws in our doctrine or Improving the training or not sure what we have to do to have less casualty in such a complex operation
Why not just use snipers? Or if the area is free from civilians - then use gas instead of destroying the building with mortar firing.
The point here is PARA SF has handleded hostage situation earlier with either less casualty or almost no casualty so my question is what makes this operation so complex that the Elite's has to take such a high casualty . Is the Terrorist getting better than our Elite guys ? or Should we revisit some Flaws in our doctrine or Improving the training or not sure what we have to do to have less casualty in such a complex operation
SF are the most capable force in the kashmir, due to vast on battle experience, and knowledge of terrain, tactics, and ground realities. Casualty was high due to the Millitants in the Suicidal Mission, and the advantage of taking cover of the civilians. Be assured, the SF won't mind the demolishment of the whole building with RDX or the Tractor Bomb, if there was no risk of colleteral damage.
It is all good for RR/Para for any such missions.
But if there is a hostage situation, better to use NSG who is much expertize in CQB.
Para is 'Army' Unit.
Wanna wait for the NSG to come to the scene, evaluate the situation, make planning, and need coordination, firepower to get inside the building to to hand to hand encounter. My friend don't live in dreams, and come to reality, SF have knowledge of the ground situation, experience of the weapons, mines, tactics, group operating in the region to take on this situation. When involved in fight, all rules of judo, karate, kumbhoo, boxing GAYI TEEL LENE, and the one use all fist, knee,stone, dirt, piss, shit are used as the weapon to kill the opponent.
Yes NSG are used for the hostage situation, and not the army because Army don't have the Special armed force right in those areas like Kashmir and when the enemy comes with the superior firepower instead of few AK-47, and granade, SF Para is the Choice not by the rule of the book, but by the Requirement Brother.
Haha, no my friend, the "Abingdon" my name refers to is the actual town in Oxford not a road.sorry for the off topic comment.
@Abingdonboy , do you happen to live on Abingdon road, just off the earls court road in central London?
The point here is PARA SF has handleded hostage situation earlier with either less casualty or almost no casualty so my question is what makes this operation so complex that the Elite's has to take such a high casualty . Is the Terrorist getting better than our Elite guys ? or Should we revisit some Flaws in our doctrine or Improving the training or not sure what we have to do to have less casualty in such a complex operation
I understand, but what about gas? Russia used a similar tactic during the school siege - it resulted in successfully capturing all terrorists without a single military casualty.Para SF have marksman, what you termed as sniper here, but for the sucessful sniper stike, you need clear line of sight. The situation presented here, made the SF to do close range gun to gun fight.
SF are the most capable force in the kashmir, due to vast on battle experience, and knowledge of terrain, tactics, and ground realities. Casualty was high due to the Millitants in the Suicidal Mission, and the advantage of taking cover of the civilians. Be assured, the SF won't mind the demolishment of the whole building with RDX or the Tractor Bomb, if there was no risk of colleteral damage.
Look around the world- SFs have "bad days" where they get killed but does that mean their enemy is better than them? What I see is a succesful hostage rescue operation 100+ civlians evacuated and all terrorists sent to hell- to frame this as failure is extremely unfair and a repeat of the post-Pathankot analysis debacle. What defines any military operation is meeting mission objectives and here they were all met, the loss of life is tragic but they died fighting for these objectives.