Indian Special Forces

[Koovie]

I see.Well,at the end of the day,both are on the same team and it's great to have two of the most deadly mountain warfare units in the Indian Army.

Who are Phantom Commandos by the way,never heard of them.Could you spare some info??

They are a highly secretive sub unit of the NSG.

Their existence has been revealed by a NSG commander in an interview. The video is on this thread (It was posted earlier this month)

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

I see.Well,at the end of the day,both are on the same team and it's great to have two of the most deadly mountain warfare units in the Indian Army.

Who are Phantom Commandos by the way,never heard of them.Could you spare some info??

Haha...I heard the name first time in a documentary. NSG cream of the crop basically are called Phantoms.

My assumption is that they cant provide top notch training to everyone so they have hand picked the elite and sent them to a secret base in the foot hills of Himalayas where they train with the SFF or Para SF etc.

 

[special]

Not true.

Marcos have no experience in HAW.Garud have no experience in amphibious operations.

Check out google or any other database and you will see that no other unit comes closer to 9th Battalion in SpecOps in Kashmir valley.They are the experts.

I do not understand this theory that the Desert Scorpions will be better than 9th battalion in Moutain warfare.

Ofcourse operators from all units have to serve in Kashmir but there are some units with a unmatchable history in operations in the valley.

@Immanuel ,I beg to differ.The MARCOS and the Garud will come nowhere near the Para SF or the Parvat Ghataks when it comes to Jungle warfare or HAW.The SFF is a whole different story though since their ranks are filled with Para SF operators!!
And wrt MARCOS being equal to the Paras,please give it a rest.Like we haven't already seen their "performance" during the 26/11!!It was the Para SF guys who saved the day.

@Immanuel ,I beg to differ.The MARCOS and the Garud will come nowhere near the Para SF or the Parvat Ghataks when it comes to Jungle warfare or HAW.The SFF is a whole different story though since their ranks are filled with Para SF operators!!
And wrt MARCOS being equal to the Paras,please give it a rest.Like we haven't already seen their "performance" during the 26/11!!It was the Para SF guys who saved the day.

I know that.What I am saying is that these Parbat Ghataks are trained by a few Para SF people...Para SF has a wide varitey of well trained operators with experince of being Instructors of Parbhat Ghataks to Phantom Commandos.

There is difference between mountain warfare and HAW.Of course in the forested Kashmir valleys situated in the comparatively lower altitudes,the Para SF personnel are invincible.......there's simply no denying in that.And I wasn't exactly speaking about this matter.

What I was talking about,is operations in extreme high altitudes (above 18-19000 feet ASL).At those altitudes,the Parvat Ghataks would definitely gain the upper hand over the Paras or anyone else for that matter.These units are raised,trained and maintained specifically and solely for operations in extremely high altitudes.But the Para SF personnel have to train in a plethora of different terrain and environments ranging from high altitude mountains to densely vegitated valleys to temperate forests to marsh lands.Then there is various room intervention and CQB drills which comes with their SF tag.So quite naturally the Parvat Ghataks would take the lead when it comes to operations in the high peaks.

Again,I'm not speaking about operations in the forested Kashmir Valleys of the comparatively lower altitudes.

And by the way,you got it right.I came to know this things from a retired Indian Army Lt Colonel,he had been a student in the High Altitude Commando School,situated in Tawang.And yeah,his views regarding the Ghatak troopers was quite favourable.

guys, to judge which unit is the best can only be done by NSA, PMO and DM. nobody in here don't have any access to the marcos and army SF unit. all we are discussing here is on the basis of what we learnt form media or very rarely from ret. army/navy officers and jawans. i would like to say that no jawans will ever say that his unit is inferior to the other. and in here you guys are discussing how tough the army and navy SF are in mountain warfare, it is not wise to say that the army special forces are better that Gurkha in mountain warfare. gurkhas are born in those mountains so naturally they have an edge over any others. and in here you guys are discussing how tough the army/navy units are, but the battle winning factor is the tactics and skill of the soldiers to plan and execute the operations.
if you look at the combat history of the special forces(marcos and para commandos) marcos had very few casualties during the operations as compared to para commandos. marcos have a record of no casualty(loss of life) during its operations in sri lanka and somalia. marcos was even send to rescue the captured para commandos in sri lanka( i don't know why as the para commandos have better intelligence network in srilanka than the marcos). marcos is the only unit in india who had done operations with US special forces(navy SEALS) in somalia, without a single casualty. in kashmir also the marcos had a low casualty rate as compared to para commandos( someone in here is not gonna agree with me but it is the fact, and the marcos do operations with para commandos and RR. and the operation of marcos are not limited to "in and around" any water bodies). the navy always kept operations very secret as compared to army and very few or no media reports on marcos before 26/11. para commandos have way better experience and intelligence network in kashmir than marcos, altho both the units only operates under actionable intel. and of course paras have better access to the locals than marcos.
someone here said that the SFF is full of para commandos. it is not true, the SFF-SG consist of a team of marcos also.

Haha...I heard the name first time in a documentary. NSG cream of the crop basically are called Phantoms.

My assumption is that they cant provide top notch training to everyone so they have hand picked the elite and sent them to a secret base in the foot hills of Himalayas where they train with the SFF or Para SF etc.

may be you are right, but there is a chance that the NSG wants a Tier-1 unit within NSG. as the terror tratics are changing and we need a force at an international standard. as also the NSG is now going to send its commandos to FBI-HRT for advanced training, may be the phantom commandos selected to be trained and equipped like the us/nato counter terror force.

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

guys, to judge which unit is the best can only be done by NSA, PMO and DM. nobody in here don't have any access to the marcos and army SF unit. all we are discussing here is on the basis of what we learnt form media or very rarely from ret. army/navy officers and jawans. i would like to say that no jawans will ever say that his unit is inferior to the other. and in here you guys are discussing how tough the army and navy SF are in mountain warfare, it is not wise to say that the army special forces are better that Gurkha in mountain warfare. gurkhas are born in those mountains so naturally they have an edge over any others. and in here you guys are discussing how tough the army/navy units are, but the battle winning factor is the tactics and skill of the soldiers to plan and execute the operations.
if you look at the combat history of the special forces(marcos and para commandos) marcos had very few casualties during the operations as compared to para commandos. marcos have a record of no casualty(loss of life) during its operations in sri lanka and somalia. marcos was even send to rescue the captured para commandos in sri lanka( i don't know why as the para commandos have better intelligence network in srilanka than the marcos). marcos is the only unit in india who had done operations with US special forces(navy SEALS) in somalia, without a single casualty. in kashmir also the marcos had a low casualty rate as compared to para commandos( someone in here is not gonna agree with me but it is the fact, and the marcos do operations with para commandos and RR. and the operation of marcos are not limited to "in and around" any water bodies). the navy always kept operations very secret as compared to army and very few or no media reports on marcos before 26/11. para commandos have way better experience and intelligence network in kashmir than marcos, altho both the units only operates under actionable intel. and of course paras have better access to the locals than marcos.
someone here said that the SFF is full of para commandos. it is not true, the SFF-SG consist of a team of marcos also.

Which Para Commando was rescued by Marcos..provide me the link?

Marcos work in and around Wular lake.People like you keep day dreaming stuff about Marcos and Garuds but the fact of the matter is that at the end of the day these great Marcos score nowhere near the top in CIJWS...Please provide me the link of Marcos being deployed in Kupwara or Doda?

Marcos kept the operation secret as compared to Army...Oh please give me a break.The Marcos were so irresponsible that they gave the interview when NSG was getting its hands dirty.

Have u even bothered to look at their room clearence drill video in 26/11...its just too pathetic.

Paras have done 10000 times more operations than Marcos.

Dont fucking give any importance to what I say...do one thing go to google and search how many navy people and how many paras have won the bravery award.You will get an idea as to who is more active.

And sorry to bust the Times of India Indian Seal bubble but even the Gurkha Ghataks can give the Garuds and Marcos a run for their money in any fcking terrain except around water bodies.

 

[Abingdonboy]

Which Para Commando was rescued by Marcos..provide me the link?

Marcos work in and around Wular lake.People like you keep day dreaming stuff about Marcos and Garuds but the fact of the matter is that at the end of the day these great Marcos score nowhere near the top in CIJWS...Please provide me the link of Marcos being deployed in Kupwara or Doda?

Marcos kept the operation secret as compared to Army...Oh please give me a break.The Marcos were so irresponsible that they gave the interview when NSG was getting its hands dirty.

Have u even bothered to look at their room clearence drill video in 26/11...its just too pathetic.

Paras have done 10000 times more operations than Marcos.

Dont fucking give any importance to what I say...do one thing go to google and search how many navy people and how many paras have won the bravery award.You will get an idea as to who is more active.

And sorry to bust the Times of India Indian Seal bubble but even the Gurkha Ghataks can give the Garuds and Marcos a run for their money in any fcking terrain except around water bodies.

I understand where you are coming from bro but I wish you would stop talking down the MARCOs- the selection process and training they go through is as intense as the PARA (SF) if not more so (and we both know how intense PARA (SF) selection and training is). To say an infantry unit (Ghataks) are on par with this SF is stretching the truth and quite far fetched.

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

I understand where you are coming from bro but I wish you would stop talking down the MARCOs- the selection process and training they go through is as intense as the PARA (SF) if not more so (and we both know how intense PARA (SF) selection and training is). To say an infantry unit (Ghataks) are on par with this SF is stretching the truth and quite far fetched.

Experience is what matters at the end of the day.Experience makes you develop tactis..Tactis makes you more skilled and Skill lets you kill..to sum it up in short.

So my dear Abingdon...where is the experience and the kill?

 

[Immanuel]

@Immanuel ,I beg to differ.The MARCOS and the Garud will come nowhere near the Para SF or the Parvat Ghataks when it comes to Jungle warfare or HAW.The SFF is a whole different story though since their ranks are filled with Para SF operators!!
And wrt MARCOS being equal to the Paras,please give it a rest.Like we haven't already seen their "performance" during the 26/11!!It was the Para SF guys who saved the day.

Dude I think you underestimate the other. Marcos entered the OP in Mumbai and nailed everybody they could find without any loss of life, they were the first ones to mop up the OP they were assigned to while NSG was still busy with the other areas. The mission was 100/100 for them. Secondly, Marcos operators are deployed near many lakes and rivers in the Valley. They are certainly trained in HAWS, doesn't mean they are the best for that role but they certainly are trained there. Marcos are also trained at CIJWS and desert warfare school in rajasthan. SFF is a different breed and doesn't always have Para SF members rather members that are trained to be in SFF since the start, offcourse there are a few who come from different units but SFF is a Special Mission dedicated to covert missions working closely with RAW. SFF/ Garuds are also trained in amphibious ops, they are not trained to expert level but they can certainly handle dives and combat operations in marine environments.

Para SF personnel being invincible is good thing but it would be a sad day for any one to underestimate Garuds or Marcos. Their training these days is more or less equalized with different services focusing on their prime areas but also since the start inculcating harsh training in the most diverse conditions. the kit they deploy is also steadily getting better. Its also really silly to be comparing Parvat Ghataks to a Marine Co, they are meant for different roles, the same parvat ghatak would have a tough time conducting a long range deep scuba dive infil op deployed from a sub, doesn't mean they can't but they are not trained primarily for that. All these units have roughly the same length of training and are trained in various prestigous schools in the country.

A Delta operator would have a tough time matching a ST6 operator in the water.

All Indian SF units old and new are pretty good and among the most well trained, it is in the end how they are deployed that makes the difference. The IA at the moment has the worst doctrine of deployment of SF units among the 3 services which actually doesn't surely use the skill to good effect. Garuds/ Marcos have a better role/ deployement doctrine which will allow IN/IAF to use them against an enemy where it really hurts.

One can say indeed the 9 Para-SF are great warriors for their roles but I am sure a Gurkha or a Ladakh scout is even a better warrior of the mountains, there is one thing being trained to fight in the mountains and there is another being born there and trained to rule there since birth.

Now from what we also know between SFF/ Marcos/ Para SF/ NSG and Garuds, there seem to be additonal special teams within each force i.e the ultra elite in case of the NSG revealed recently is the so called Phantom Unit i.e 1 percenters who are sent out for highly classified additional training.

 

[Immanuel]

Paras have done 10000 times more operations than Marcos.

Dont fucking give any importance to what I say...do one thing go to google and search how many navy people and how many paras have won the bravery award.You will get an idea as to who is more active.

And sorry to bust the Times of India Indian Seal bubble but even the Gurkha Ghataks can give the Garuds and Marcos a run for their money in any fcking terrain except around water bodies.

'I think you should better learn to show some fucking respect instead of running your filthy fucking mouth'

See its easy to use filthy language, you laugh at 2 dimensional video of a room clearance where, it may look funny to you or pathetic for that matter, however the fact is they managed to kill whoever they found with no loss of life (just some injuries inevitable when facing fire and grenade barrage) either to their own teams of additonal innocents/hostages that my dear biased friend is a 100/100 OP. They were given orders and they did what they were ordered to do.

Sorry but you judge a force on how they supposedly performed at CIJWS, pardon me but who the **** are you to comment while its obvious that you're quite simply writing crap out out of a chair. Let's see how the Para SF performs in the water, I doubt a Gurkha can swim a mile out due to his thick mountain blood.

Again you want to compare forces, compare similar ones from other countries. comparing our own forces has no added value, it is only a matter of knowing which force is best for the job. You want a EW node or a Air defence radar or SAM batteries taken out behind enemy lines send in the Garuds, you want to destroy enemy missile launchers and ammo dumps send in the Paras, if you want to sabotage enemy ships/subs send in the Marcos, you want to covertly kill enemy leadership or recon enemy strategic sights send in the SFF.

Going forth being part of SOC, all these forces will have to learn to integrate and do it really well you see. If for example the Garuds don't disable an air defence node, the paras for instance can't even get there without being shot out of the sky. Military might comes from everybody doing their job to the best extent without compromise and working together. All this chatter about which service is best within our own country is BS.

Also, I am confident on how the various SF units are honing and evolving their tactics, skills and training.

 

[sathya]

Silly civilian doubt...

Why Marcos were to 26/11 Mumbai? Not para SF?
Any specific reason? May be because they came through Coast?

 

[Abingdonboy]

Silly civilian doubt...

Why Marcos were to 26/11 Mumbai? Not para SF?
Any specific reason? May be because they came through Coast?

Theere is a MARCOs detachment at the IN's base in Mumbai so MARCOs were the closets SF to Mumbai when it happened. PARA (SF) aren't usually deployed in cities (Banaglore being such an exception).

 

[NEPALESE GURKHA]

Chinese anti terrorism force

 

[Indischer]

Silly civilian doubt...

Why Marcos were to 26/11 Mumbai? Not para SF?
Any specific reason? May be because they came through Coast?

Nope. they just happened to be the ones closest to the area of impact. Para SF's regimental centre is in Bangalore while the closest detachment to Mumbai would be the one in Belgaum. The Marcos regimental centre is meanwhile in Mumbai, and needless to say, help was sought from them rather than Para SF to engage the terrorists till NSG made it's way from Manesar.

 

[sathya]

Chinese anti terrorism forceView attachment 40365

Why are posting it here mate? Try in Chinese special forces

 

[NEPALESE GURKHA]

Why are posting it here mate? Try in Chinese special forces

China has developed its capability beyond force and its arms now they have SUV designed for special force so in-spite to debate on 26/11 rather move to new debate of achieving next requirement for Special force

 

[Abingdonboy]

China has developed its capability beyond force and its arms now they have SUV designed for special force so in-spite to debate on 26/11 rather move to new debate of achieving next requirement for Special force

I don't understand what you are trying to say vis a vis China, every nation has CT forces, India is no exception:

They even have their own specialised assault vehicles as you have made a point of: