Indian Railways vs. Chinese Railways...

[Indian Patriot]

The privatisation must only happen in cleanliness, reservation and upgrading the stations.. Not the railways. We actually do not require High speed trains. It will increase the cost , and people will rather fly by air .. and those who live in interiar will have to pay more.

A high speed train operation will cost the railways a lot and cannot become the basic mode of railways operation.

I have seen pessimists but you sir take the cake.

India does not need high speed trains or super-fast trains but India needs AC shopping malls, 4D cinema halls, Starbucks coffee shops and other cosmetic things that make India look "developed". Indians have no sense or value of time?

Metros were introduced in Delhi to give faster commuting options to Delhites. The metro does not charge 1000 rupees for travel and traveling 15 km in metro is cheaper than traveling 15 km in bus or auto. If you are so scared about costs then why don't you protest against Palace on Wheels, Deccan Queen etc. Special tourist trains that charge Rs 100,000 per night journey? If people have so much money why not stay in 5 star hotels?

If you had an option you would even remove the Rajdhani express, after all why should Indians enjoy fast trains? Indians do not need modern railway engines because they are expensive, steam engines are working fine for India.

Every time somebody wants an improves India there are 10,000 others to pull him down.

Reason India cannot build high-speed or super-fast railways is India does not have the money. Some of the excuses by my compatriots is so hilarious that it will be sad if they genuinely believe them.

The world is moving towards progress and modernity but some people are allergic to development.

Ironically "communist" China is more welcoming to business developments than "capitalist" India.

 

[samv]

Go China!

 

[AndrewJin]

1) Any ways , Indian railways and its operations are more DIVERSE geographically and purposely, than chinese. As chinese railway network is based on european one. Neither Chinese fast train will suit Indian actual demand, nor the Bullet. Why to waste money on this project?

Chinese normal trains are just like Indian railway,

2) No one is willing to pay 7000 rupees for one way in India to travel in a train they would rather travel by Air. If their luggage is less and 1000 rupees for extra lugage. Beijing to Shanghai oneway costs 6,000 rupees for economy class, which is too much.

Beijing-Shanghai, G(300km/h)=5500rupees/2nd class, D(200km/h)train=3000rupees, 1300km.
Discounted air ticket fare is normally 6,000rupees-10,000rupees(another 500 rupees for fuel surcharge).
Most important, during holidays, no good discounts(more than 10,000rupees), but HSR never change.
And concerning income difference, merely comparing number is quite meaningless.

3) You need to board the train 1 hour earlier in China HR which means leaving 2 hours earlier If you live averagely far. Not so in India.

Ticket check only 15 minutes before departure, if a train which starts from the station.
Ticket check only 5-10 minutes before departure, if the station is a midway stop for a train.
(No passengers are allowed to the platform before ticket checking time)
When I take an HSR in my city, Wuhan, I generally leave home one hour before departure time of my train, including time in metro, printing my ticket which is bought from APP, security check, checking in.
HSR is 99% on time, and has frequent services. If one misses a train, one can change to the following train. (From my hometown Wuhan to Beijing,30 trains per day, 1200km, 4-5 hours; from Shanghai to Nanjing, 180 trains per day)

4) Indian railways is more network oriented

Normal lines&HSR lines
They are not isolated systems, interchangeable in the same station and a lot of through-serves(from normal lines to HSR lines or reversely)

HSR network

 

[Indian Patriot]

Chinese normal trains are just like Indian railway,
View attachment 212436


Beijing-Shanghai, G(300km/h)=5500rupees/2nd class, D(200km/h)train=3000rupees, 1300km.
Discounted air ticket fare is normally 6,000rupees-10,000rupees(another 500 rupees for fuel surcharge).
Most important, during holidays, no good discounts(more than 10,000rupees), but HSR never change.
And concerning income difference, merely comparing number is quite meaningless.

Ticket check only 15 minutes before departure, if a train which starts from the station.
Ticket check only 5-10 minutes before departure, if the station is a midway stop for a train.
(No passengers are allowed to the platform before ticket checking time)
When I take an HSR in my city, Wuhan, I generally leave home one hour before departure time of my train, including time in metro, printing my ticket which is bought from APP, security check, checking in.
HSR is 99% on time, and has frequent services. If one misses a train, one can change to the following train. (From my hometown Wuhan to Beijing,30 trains per day, 1200km, 4-5 hours; from Shanghai to Nanjing, 180 trains per day)

Normal lines&HSR lines
They are not isolated systems, interchangeable in the same station and a lot of through-serves(from normal lines to HSR lines or reversely)
View attachment 212435

HSR network
View attachment 212446

I like how Chinese platforms are so clean.

 

[AndrewJin]

@Indian Patriot
They used be filthy.
1, Passengers are allowed to walk to the platforms only 5-15 minutes before departure(That's why huge waiting rooms in China are built)
2, A closed system. Stations, railways and all facilities are enclosed by fences. It leads to clearness safety and efficiency.
3. thanks to our cleaners. (railway cleaners are railway stuff, permanent jobs, well paid)
4. Upgrading old trains. New trains (A/C no matter seat or bed; toilet sucking system; faster from less than 100km/h to 150-180km/h) are gradually replacing old trains. There used to be a lot of filthy trains, dirty, smelly and no A/C, now rapidly weeded out, at least no these sorts of trains in my province in Central China
@Indian Patriot
To railway fans, mostly we love normal trains more than HSR. Normal trains are diverse and SLOW so we can easily take photos!

 

[Indian Patriot]

They used be filthy.

how did you manage?

 

[Screambowl]

Your response is sadly impotent. Nothing I said was untrue, and there is little to nothing you can do to change that.

Also, I reported your post. I have a good record of getting people banned, and I hope to continue.




What are you talking about?

1) What do you mean by Indian railways are more geographically diverse? Geographically speaking, China is much more diverse than India, and Chinese railways are built over Karst topography, deserts, permafrost on Tibetan Plateau, the Mongolian grasslands, the snowy plains of the north, and through the granite mountains of central China.

2) Air travel is affected too much by oil prices. Tickets may be cheap now, but that's not likely to continue. Besides, India is a large net oil importer, therefore air travel contributes to her large trade deficit.

3) Where the hell did you get your information? NO, you CANNOT board the train one hour before departure. In fact, you are NOT even allowed onto the platform until 15 minutes before departure time. Unlike India, China doesn't allow people to loiter on platforms.

4) Chinese passenger rail connects more cities, townships, and counties than Indian railways. In fact, in terms of stations and connection points, Chinese passenger railways leads the world. There is no railway more "network oriented" than the Chinese passenger railway, AND it delivers people with SPEED.

5) India couldn't have built high-speed rail even if it wanted to. India's traction technologies are all imported from Japan and America decades ago and all obsolete. India has no indigenous R&D and manufacturing capability to even contemplate high-speed rail on her own. Moreover, with her large national deficits, where will India find the funds for such an ambitious project?

1) India has tropical, desert, himalayan, sub tropical climates. And not artificial ones. The topography and operation techniques are different, and that is why we have konkan railways, NR, WR, ER, SR.

2) The operation cost of HSR is high and hence loss for Indian railways. Domestic air travel remains less affected due to oil. More over, even in China the economy class ticket for a HSR is Five times more than a normal rail.

3) I read on a website, as I was trying to book a ticket, they said , reach the station 45 minutes before the departure. Beijing to Shanghai HSR. It costed him around 556 Yuan. He would rather had taken flight. The only advantage is , you can carry more luggage.

4) I am not talking about all together Chinese Rail, I am being more specific about HSR. If it starts stopping at every town, the speed will be hell slow. As far as the connectivity is concerned. This Map tells everything.

5) India is neither interested in developing HSR network as of now. as the consumerism in India for this is very low, then why to invest in such which will get you loss? During my third semester I had a project and I chose Indian railways as my topic. The operating cost for HSR is very high, and other side the consumer in India is more inclined towards cheap travel.

6) The track technology, is old but , India has the capability produce tracks for high speed trains, in all climatic conditions. We can still take the WAP close to 175km/hr but not during summers, and not in southern India even during winters. And it is more complex to produce such track system which bears all kinds of extreme climate, cold rain, and heat region to region. That is also an investment to make. Unlike China, where most of the area have less temperature and climate difference than other cities.

@AndrewJin No one is willing to pay 5500 rupees for economy class when one can sit in a normal 150km/hr Rajdhani for a night with a compartment in 4089 rupees including breakfast lunch and snacks. That'S Indian mentality. HSR will fail!

 

[AndrewJin]

how did you manage?

I forget one
6, rebuild or renovate existing stations
Like Hankou Station in my city Wuhan, built 100 years ago.
First time rebuilt in 1991
Second time in 2010

Now, taken in Jan. 2015

Crowed waiting room
We have three major stations in Wuhan.
Hankou is for normal trains to the north and Shanghai-Wuhan-Chengdu HSR.

You see, not allowed to the platforms.

Waiting room is just above the platforms, every check-in entrance is designed for only one platform.
So when check in, just walk down, also have a life and an escalator.

 

[Indian Patriot]

Chinese railway stations are as posh as India's best airports.

 

[Screambowl]

You see, not allowed to the platforms.
View attachment 212464

Waiting room is just above the platforms, every check-in entrance is designed for only one platform.
So when check in, just walk down, also have a life and an escalator.
View attachment 212467

I thought it's a german railways on chinese platform, in red and white.. very similar coaches.

 

[AndrewJin]

As a railway fan more than 10 years, I really need to reply.

India has tropical, desert, himalayan, sub tropical climates

Pls check the climate diversity of China.
Railway in Hainan Island, Qinghai-Tibet Railway, Silk Road railway, railway through extremely cold regions called Heilongjiang Province.

More over, even in China the economy class ticket for a HSR is Five times more than a normal rail.

Pls check more, D class(200m/h), G class(300km/h), K/T/Z normal trains(less than 180km/h).
Hard seat/ hard bed/ soft bed/ 2nd class of HSR/ 1st class of HSR

He would rather had taken flight. The only advantage is , you can carry more luggage.

So "he"
Pls check the passengers volume of Beijing-Shanghai HSR and Beijing-Shanghai flights.
If u are interested, have a look at my thread
https://defence.pk/threads/chinese-hsr-news-and-information：original-translations.363685/

As far as the connectivity is concerned. This Map tells everything

Pls don't use maps only major stations are listed

Normal lines and HSR

HSR network near my hometown, Wuhan

HSR network of Yangtze river delta

HSR Network of Chengdu-Chongqing clusters

The operating cost for HSR is very high,

Pls make an analysis of operating cost vs social benefits and economic benefits
http://www-wds.worldbank.org/extern...d/PDF/ACS97340WP0P140a0Box385238B00OUO090.pdf

India has the capability produce tracks for high speed trains, in all climatic conditions.

Pls further reading about different technological details of HSR tracks for different climate.

Unlike China, where most of the area have less temperature and climate difference than other cities

OMG.....
I don't wanna say another "pls check information"

Seriously, I know Chinese railway more than any member here. I even have quite some acquisitions about Indian railway. I'm a railway fan, interested in any railway system around the world.

@Screambowl Help me find this small station in your map

You know, when one has no ideas of another stuff, one should really do more "reliable" information collection.

No one is willing to pay 5500 rupees for economy class when one can sit in a normal 150km/hr Rajdhani for a night with a compartment in 4089 rupees including breakfast lunch and snacks. That'S Indian mentality. HSR will fail!

Pls tell me the distance and time of your Rajdhani express, and ticket fares of different classes. I'll tell you a similar route in China. And I'll make an analysis of HSR vs normal trains of the same interval.

 

[by78]

You know, when one has no ideas of another stuff, one should really do more "reliable" information collection.

Speaking glibly seems to be a very prevalent trait in India.

 

[AndrewJin]

Speaking glibly seems to be a very prevalent trait in India.

If he didn't say something untrue about Chinese railway, I woudn't reply. (even he said something not true about Indian railway, I will correct him if I find out. If my datas is wrong, pls correct me and I will learn.)
Regional Economic Impact Analysis of High Speed Rail in China
Check this report, from "World Bank"
Tomorrow I'll take my routine HSR from Wuhan to Shanghai which is 850km away, only 250yuan for second class(D train) and read that report on the train!

And also
High-speed railways in China : a look at traffic (English) | The World Bank
High-speed rail, regional economics, and urban development in China (English) | The World Bank

 

[metronome]

we are far behind and have much to learn from the Chinese but Indian railways works good

not super efficient, but it works just fine.. @AndrewJin, you should visit and try some of it before the modern industrial machine devours it all, which it will at some stage.

 

[UPer]

I agree to a large extent with @AndrewJin that railways should be public. But sarkari babus (govt workers) are also not known for giving a damn. So this is a conundrum. I think it is a matter of shift in cultural mindset. If we can build decent airports in recent years without privatization, why can't we extend the same philosophy to railways?

Another option could be a mix of public/private corridors. Just like postal/courier services. The public part focuses on providing affordable connectivity to all and small places while private part focuses on major economic corridors.

@AndrewJin I love your pics, very nice!