Indian PM confered with 'World Statesman Award'

[indushek]

And i am with you on this....The reforms were proposed many times but since they were some tough decisions no one wanted to risk his/her political career...So if you are sayign bankruptcy was the driving factor to bring in reforms then you are right, however bankruptcy was the driving factor and that's about it....The person who sat their and washed all the dirty laundry was MMS.....As a finance minister(for the first time) he took some very hard decisions and India is enjoying the results...


Don't get me wrong...Free and Fair media is the back bone of any democracy...Without media we will fail for sure...My comment is about giving due credit to the person...




When educated folks make such comments it disgust me the most....Mind it this comment is not on you but in general...

I have give list of some very bold steps taken by MMS...if risking your govt. for getting the most important decision of this century(read nuke deal) is not being strong then i am not sure what else is...Read my list again and share with me what decision among those are not strong in your eyes...Also if you can tell me what decisions/actions of his makes you feel he is not strong

P.S : I hope him being a soft spokesman is not considered a weakness....

Regards....

I don't mind at all, the reason for which i feel he is not strong is not his soft spokenness. The reason i feel he is not strong is the Mumbai incident fiasco.

During the Mumbai incident i feel that the situation could have been handled better. If u want to discuss this in particular, i am more than willing.

 

[deckingraj]

I don't mind at all, the reason for which i feel he is not strong is not his soft spokenness. The reason i feel he is not strong is the Mumbai incident fiasco.

During the Mumbai incident i feel that the situation could have been handled better. If u want to discuss this in particular, i am more than willing.

Sure i would like to understand what in your eyes was the correct way of handling mumbai fiasco.....Please explain you POV...

Regards...

 

[Champak]

First of all thanks for replying. I thought nobody even bothered to read what I posted.



The BUT has a logic. Question is "Are you able/willing to see it?".




Tell me buddy,

Arhar Dal - Rs. 100 in MMS' time

Other lentils - Rs. 60-80 in MMS' time

Vegetables - Fluctuating from Rs. 30-60/Kg in MMS' time

Petrol - Reached above 50 in MMS' time and that when global oil prices have declined.

Now tell me how can the poorest guy afford a decently nutritious diet? You and I can, he cannot!

You know why I blame MMS? Because his very policy states "Whatever the problem, increase the prices". This policy revolves around the basic capitalist principle that you make people pay more for what they want and the money pumped into the economy by means of this will keep the economy in good shape. But there is a problem with this pronciple and it is that the poorest guy who is not able to afford the rising cost is not able to buy the products he needs. It's quite simple, no rocket science.

By the way, I'm myself no Marxist or anything in fact I full well realise the benefits of Capitalism but some of MMS' policies (not many but some) hit the poorest when it hurts the most.



The link you provided didn't work so let me come back to explaining my point to you.

Tell me, you are the PM; you know something fishy is going on in the biggest international even your country has ever hosted; yet you do nothing...

MMS became PM in 2004 and India had been awarded the CWG 2010 by then. From 2004 to 2009 ( a full 6 years) MMS was sleeping, virtually sleeping when it came to CWG. How can he go Scot free now?

It's very simple logic buddy. Tell me, you are the boss and you have been awarded a very important project which is one of the many you handle. You relegate the responsibility of this project to a team of people whom you feel to be capable enough to handle the project well and make it a success.

Now you sleep for 6 years and get on with other projects of importance forgetting to take stock of the situation of that project from time to time.

You never ask that team what it is doing with the project.

You never take stock of the situation/progress of that project thinking that "all must be well"

One fine day, you are reminded by the media of some glaring irregularities in the management of that project and how the success of the project would be jeopardised if you did not take any immediate action....you take a superficial stock of the project and when that team tells you 'Saar, All IJ WELL", you blindly trust them and again go to sleep (read get busy with other projects).

Your team is accused of corruption, you take no action.

Your team is accused of mismanagement, you take no action.

A few days before the completion of the project, you suddenly realise (thanks to the pandemonium in the media and the public) that something went horribly wrong while you were sleeping (read busy with other projects). Now you take stock of the situation and do all that is being done now at the eleventh hour.

But hey buddy...wakey wakey....it is too late now. Your country has been shamed the world over. You decide to take matters in your own hands but it won't make an iota of difference because many athletes have decided to pull out. Some country's PM (New Zealand) is lecturing your country about the futility of participating in your project. The English are taking stock 'day by day'...cmon...you have become a laughing stock now the world over. Show's over baby!

Now my dear, in the above story, replace 'you' by 'MMS', 'project' by 'CWG'.

In short, the boss cannot escape responsibility by pitting all the blame on his incompetent sub-ordinates. It was as much responsibility if of the boss to keep taking stock of the project from time to time and keep your sub-ordinates on their toes.

This is called 'Project Management'.



You completely missed what I was trying to convey. It could be that since you are out of the country, you are not aware of the issue.

Let me put it in simple words but firtly you need to understand the gravity of the situation. Here, read this news,

HindustanTimes-Print

Now, a few days back the supreme court had ordered the GoI to distribute this ******* grain to the poor and the needy for free. You know what MMS told the SC?, "Mind your own business, we cannot!"

This is what I meant my dear. Isn't this criminal? I mean literally! You have millions of tons of grain ******* in your warehouses and you are more willing to let it rot than distribute it to the poor knowing full well that millions of poor children need that grain. Tell me, what is this if not a crime of the highest degree?



You know what I say to anybody who gives me this "worse monsoon/fuel prices" thingy...?

You don't know zilch about how things work in India.

Fuel prices:

Read this, this is today's crude oil price:

CRUDE OIL PRICE: Oil | Energy | Petroleum | Oil Price | Crude Oil Charts | Oil Price Forecast

And this:

And this:

Oil prices headed lower

Now tell me what is the dire need to increase the oil prices so drastically in light of the fact that inernational crude prices were at their lowest levels during the financial crisis?

In short, fuel price is falling internationally and rising in India. Why?

Food Shortage due to monsoon:

This is utter rubbish/canard spread by the agriculture ministry in order to hide:

1. Corruption among its highest ranking officials including the minister himself.

2. Inept management of FCI (Food Corporation of India)

3. Widespread corruption in FCI. And by widespread, I mean wiiiiiiiiideeeeeeespreeeeeeeeaaaaaddddddd.

You know what? Sometimes I really like MMS and Sharad Pawar.

"Accha choona lagaya hai dono ne desh ko." Just harp "monsoon/drought/food shortage"...and fool the people. ha ha ha...sahi hai...



Tell me:

1. How many times has MMS visited these areas and mind you they are the most backward areas/people you can imagine on earth. Literally. I've been there and I know it.

Dude my simple point was: In times of hardship, you DO NOT keep sitting in your office looking at files...YOU GO OUT AND SEE WHAT'S HAPPENING...THAT'S WHY HE IS NOT A LEADER...HE HAS SIMPLY NO CONNECTION (AND I MEAN NONE WHATSOEVER) WITH THE MASSES OF THE COUNTRY HE IS THE PM OF...

He is doing to the maoist problem what he did to the CWG...relegating his duties to the subordinates!



My friend, had MMS really (and I mean really really) wanted to get it passed, he would have got it. This bill is so much more important to the country than a nuke deal for which he put his govt. at stake. Typical example of misplaced priorities.



Ya and a few months back this very PM was in favour of diluting the RTI on behest of the bureaucracy and he would have done so had he not been stopped by Sonia Gandhi (remember RTI was her baby)...

I can again give it to you that you are not aware of the zeitgeist of Indian politics since you are not in the country.

Another point: A RAJA....naam hee kaafi hai This guy hoodwinked the country of Rs. 600000000000 (just count the zeros) and the PM refused to initiate even an inquiry...WoW...What a PM!



I answered you point by point...now it is up-to you to make up your mind If you choose to be blindly ignorant...be my guest!




LoL You really need to learn about the origins of the sub-prime crisis and and the resulting liquidity crunch man!

Anyways, I'll save you the hard labour I've put in, just watch "Capitalism - A Love Story" by Michael Moore, it should give you a fair enough idea.

BTW, my point was not the Satyam scam or the financial crisis...my point was the response of the country's head to the crisis.

When you are the PM and you say "The Satyam scam has shamed India." you do not know what damage are you doing to the country's reputation...you are making it an object of ridicule for everyone and THAT my friend is simply not done.

You do not say such words for your country no matter what happens! It's simply the poorest choice of words!

This example was enough to prove that MMS is merely an economist, not a leader!




When did I say the people are not responsible?

I said "MMS is an inept, helpless and puppet PM unable to take tough decisions, unable to stand for his people when they need him the most and unable to connect with them or guide them when they need him the most!"...how does this mean that I have absolved us (the people) of any blame?

Quite an enlightening post!

 

[deckingraj]

First of all thanks for replying. I thought nobody even bothered to read what I posted.

You are most welcome....

The BUT has a logic. Question is "Are you able/willing to see it?".

I am however i don't see it apart from person bashing...The simple reason is you are criticizing MMS for all the reasons which are very complex problems and have been faced by every single PM of India....However for some reason you are not saying that every PM of India has been inept, pupet and what not....Why are you not saying it???

My simple thing was if the problems have increased in MMS time i can understand he has failed the nation, however that is not the case....Moreover your failure to appreciate the great decisions that he has taken also adds to the suspicion that you are more interested in biased bashing...Anyways let me counter your arguments on merit....

Tell me buddy,

Arhar Dal - Rs. 100 in MMS' time

Other lentils - Rs. 60-80 in MMS' time

Vegetables - Fluctuating from Rs. 30-60/Kg in MMS' time

Petrol - Reached above 50 in MMS' time and that when global oil prices have declined.

Now tell me how can the poorest guy afford a decently nutritious diet? You and I can, he cannot!

And exactly that's why he is a strong PM...Increasing Oil price is a very bold political decision and for decades respective govt. don't do it for short-term political gains....My advice please don't see the short term hardship due to increase in Oil prices....Freeing Oil from subsidy and managing prices on market value is a very bold step and right step for our economy.....Many wise economists and panels in India were suggesting this bold move from ages however respective govt. for political reasons were not taking this step and MMS did...what a bold step

G20 welcomes oil subsidy phase out strategy - The Economic Times

Oil Subsidy ‘Reform’ Needed to Ease Budget Gaps, IMF Staff Say - BusinessWeek

India Delays Fuel Price Decision Amid High Inflation (Update3) - BusinessWeek

India Scraps subsidy on fuel.


Understand one point keeping a tap on inflation by subsidy is not the right move...It increases your fiscal deficit which slows down the economy....In short-term this move looks good however it hurts the economy in long term. Only a bold politician who cares about nation and not interested in short-term vested interest will take such a risky decision, no????

There are other ways to tap inflation and efforts are on.

India's inflation hits the lowest since January - Hurriyet Daily News and Economic Review

Mind it i am not trying to protect Govt here. I am just trying to pin-point the bold and right steps that MMS has taken and how easily are you ignoring them....The more economically we will grow more we would be able to eradicate poverty....

Now the reason prices did not come down because there was already a subsidy given on oil which has been taken out...Now if the ooil prices increased drastically this subsidy would come back for the volatile period...Now tell me how taking a step which has been a political football for decades and is unpopular among people but correct for nation is not being strong in your eyes???

You know why I blame MMS? Because his very policy states "Whatever the problem, increase the prices". This policy revolves around the basic capitalist principle that you make people pay more for what they want and the money pumped into the economy by means of this will keep the economy in good shape. But there is a problem with this pronciple and it is that the poorest guy who is not able to afford the rising cost is not able to buy the products he needs. It's quite simple, no rocket science.

No offense but how much versed are you with economics???? Increasing prices is not going to help sustain economy...I hope you know the difference between real GDP and nominal GDP....In layman terms supply and demand should be the phenomenon used here....Subsidies are not good for economy becuase they increase your fiscal deficit and things can get very bad. We have seen this in 1991 and i am sure you will not like to have a repeat of it...Now in a gloabl recession when you have to bring in stimulus to keep companies afloat and yet have to somehow tap the ever increasing fiscal deficit, may i know what was the right step in your eyes???

Look we need to be very sensitive about the poor however wrong economic moves are not going to help the situation either...no??? NREGA and UIN are some unique steps in this regard, however you must understand that such schemes cannot simply change the plight of poor in whisker of a second...and scores of corruption that India is suffering with also don't help...So if i have to conclude

- MMS team got rid of subsidy to reduce fiscal deficit
- MMS team introduced schemes like NREGA and UIN to help poor
- MMS team introduced RTI to help fight corruption

Now if you want to overlook all of this then i cannot help, can i????

By the way, I'm myself no Marxist or anything in fact I full well realise the benefits of Capitalism but some of MMS' policies (not many but some) hit the poorest when it hurts the most.

You are right, however we have to balance out the long-term goals and the need of poor today. One thing is a must, we need to keep growing at the rate we are....So all our steps should definitely boost it however we need to be sensitive about poor or else problem like Moist will not leave us....

The link you provided didn't work so let me come back to explaining my point to you.

Tell me, you are the PM; you know something fishy is going on in the biggest international even your country has ever hosted; yet you do nothing...

MMS became PM in 2004 and India had been awarded the CWG 2010 by then. From 2004 to 2009 ( a full 6 years) MMS was sleeping, virtually sleeping when it came to CWG. How can he go Scot free now?

It's very simple logic buddy. Tell me, you are the boss and you have been awarded a very important project which is one of the many you handle. You relegate the responsibility of this project to a team of people whom you feel to be capable enough to handle the project well and make it a success.

Now you sleep for 6 years and get on with other projects of importance forgetting to take stock of the situation of that project from time to time.

You never ask that team what it is doing with the project.

You never take stock of the situation/progress of that project thinking that "all must be well"

One fine day, you are reminded by the media of some glaring irregularities in the management of that project and how the success of the project would be jeopardised if you did not take any immediate action....you take a superficial stock of the project and when that team tells you 'Saar, All IJ WELL", you blindly trust them and again go to sleep (read get busy with other projects).

Your team is accused of corruption, you take no action.

Your team is accused of mismanagement, you take no action.

A few days before the completion of the project, you suddenly realise (thanks to the pandemonium in the media and the public) that something went horribly wrong while you were sleeping (read busy with other projects). Now you take stock of the situation and do all that is being done now at the eleventh hour.

But hey buddy...wakey wakey....it is too late now. Your country has been shamed the world over. You decide to take matters in your own hands but it won't make an iota of difference because many athletes have decided to pull out. Some country's PM (New Zealand) is lecturing your country about the futility of participating in your project. The English are taking stock 'day by day'...cmon...you have become a laughing stock now the world over. Show's over baby!

Now my dear, in the above story, replace 'you' by 'MMS', 'project' by 'CWG'.

In short, the boss cannot escape responsibility by pitting all the blame on his incompetent sub-ordinates. It was as much responsibility if of the boss to keep taking stock of the project from time to time and keep your sub-ordinates on their toes.

This is called 'Project Management'.

Thanks for giving me a picture of your understanding of what Project Management is...Now i think it is time for you to learn delegation of resposibility....In past 6 years of experience i have never seen my CEO being blamed for a failed project. He is a CEO and should work like a CEO otherwise we are doomed for failure....CEO needs to be busy in creating strategies to get more business..Directors, Project Mangers are accountable for execution...In short MMS should be doing far more important things then spending his energy on CWG preparations, don't you think so???....and when things went out of control he intervened....

As said before if i go by your logic then you are as inept, as puppet as you are accusing MMS....I am sorry but you are thinking MMS as some ordinary man who has ample time to look into how the hell CWG preparations are going on.....I must say you are being too simplistic here...We have far more important issues in hand then CWG....

B/W you might wanna read this

Enough is enough: PM scolds 2 ministers for CWG mess - Hindustan Times

You completely missed what I was trying to convey. It could be that since you are out of the country, you are not aware of the issue.

Dude, lets not try to be judgemental here especially when you know nothing about me....I am in US but as attached with my homeland as any patriot would be...

Let me put it in simple words but firtly you need to understand the gravity of the situation. Here, read this news,

HindustanTimes-Print

Now, a few days back the supreme court had ordered the GoI to distribute this ******* grain to the poor and the needy for free. You know what MMS told the SC?, "Mind your own business, we cannot!"

This is what I meant my dear. Isn't this criminal? I mean literally! You have millions of tons of grain ******* in your warehouses and you are more willing to let it rot than distribute it to the poor knowing full well that millions of poor children need that grain. Tell me, what is this if not a crime of the highest degree?

Your link redirected me, so could not read it....I am well aware of the SC decision and MMS response...Now do you know why he said it??? Did you even bother to read his justification??? Read it and tell me what is wrong in his statement...

“I respectfully submit that the Supreme Court should not go into the realm of policy formulation. I respect the sentiments behind the [court] decision that when foodgrains are ******* and people are suffering from deprivation, then some way should be found to ensure that the food needs of the deprived sections are met. But quite honestly it is not possible in this country to give free food to all the poor people.”

The Prime Minister said figures vary but if one takes the Tendulkar committee's estimates, 37 per cent of the population is below the poverty line. “How are you going to give free food to such a large segment of the population,” he asked. His government was committed to ensuring that food was available to the poor at an affordable price. “But to say that we can give foodgrains free, quite frankly, if we do that on a large scale you would destroy the incentive of our farmers to produce more food and if there is no food available for distribution what will you distribute?”

The Hindu : News / National : Order on free grain to poor can't be executed, says Manmohan Singh

You know what I say to anybody who gives me this "worse monsoon/fuel prices" thingy...?

You don't know zilch about how things work in India.

Fuel prices:

Read this, this is today's crude oil price:

CRUDE OIL PRICE: Oil | Energy | Petroleum | Oil Price | Crude Oil Charts | Oil Price Forecast

And this:

And this:

Oil prices headed lower

Now tell me what is the dire need to increase the oil prices so drastically in light of the fact that inernational crude prices were at their lowest levels during the financial crisis?

In short, fuel price is falling internationally and rising in India. Why?

Time to update your knowledge on Fuel Subsidy and its implications on fiscal deficit and overall economy. I have shared few links, once you understand the phenomenon correctly you will get the answer on your own....

Food Shortage due to monsoon:

This is utter rubbish/canard spread by the agriculture ministry in order to hide:

1. Corruption among its highest ranking officials including the minister himself.

2. Inept management of FCI (Food Corporation of India)

3. Widespread corruption in FCI. And by widespread, I mean wiiiiiiiiideeeeeeespreeeeeeeeaaaaaddddddd.

You know what? Sometimes I really like MMS and Sharad Pawar.

"Accha choona lagaya hai dono ne desh ko." Just harp "monsoon/drought/food shortage"...and fool the people. ha ha ha...sahi hai...

So now you are accusing MMS of being corrupt???? Dude you seem to have lost it...Even the opposition party don't call him corrupt and we all know what happened when they term him weak..right??? B/W i never said that corruption is not responsible for the sorry state, however ignoring recession, complemented with fuel prices and bad monsoon as one of the reason is also shear stupid....

Tell me:

1. How many times has MMS visited these areas and mind you they are the most backward areas/people you can imagine on earth. Literally. I've been there and I know it.

Dude my simple point was: In times of hardship, you DO NOT keep sitting in your office looking at files...YOU GO OUT AND SEE WHAT'S HAPPENING...THAT'S WHY HE IS NOT A LEADER...HE HAS SIMPLY NO CONNECTION (AND I MEAN NONE WHATSOEVER) WITH THE MASSES OF THE COUNTRY HE IS THE PM OF...

He is doing to the maoist problem what he did to the CWG...relegating his duties to the subordinates!

Now you are speaking without even thinking and this is frustrating...Sorry to say this....I have repeatedly said that Moist is a state problem and not center...Center cannot take iron hand on it becuase consitution of India do not allow it....Security is a state issue period. B/W this is how things work, you have ministers for doing the job....Home Ministry is not created for fun sake....

Though i agree he can do a better job when it comes to people to people contact yet i know you will easily ignore his innitiatives on various forums....

My friend, had MMS really (and I mean really really) wanted to get it passed, he would have got it. This bill is so much more important to the country than a nuke deal for which he put his govt. at stake. Typical example of misplaced priorities.

Care to explain why women's bill is more important then nuclear bill....I hope just for the sake of MMS bashing you are not leaving behind your thinking cap....B/W do you have an idea since when this women's bill issue is going around...It is only his tenure which say the passage of first hurdle, but obviously you will ignore the fact, no???

Ya and a few months back this very PM was in favour of diluting the RTI on behest of the bureaucracy and he would have done so had he not been stopped by Sonia Gandhi (remember RTI was her baby)...

Give me a credible link for you stupid claim....Now RTI is Sonia Gandhi baby but all the bad things are MMS baby, wow what a logic.....

I can again give it to you that you are not aware of the zeitgeist of Indian politics since you are not in the country.

Ignoring this...I can easily say you know nothing about politics/economics but i don't believe in personal attacks...

Another point: A RAJA....naam hee kaafi hai This guy hoodwinked the country of Rs. 600000000000 (just count the zeros) and the PM refused to initiate even an inquiry...WoW...What a PM!

And you very well know that this so called Raja worked on 2-D spectrum as per the mandate set up by BJP govt, right???

I answered you point by point...now it is up-to you to make up your mind If you choose to be blindly ignorant...be my guest!

I have explained my point of view even for some immature comments...Just my advice please don't think that you know a lot about Indian politics and other's have no clue of what they are talking about....

LoL You really need to learn about the origins of the sub-prime crisis and and the resulting liquidity crunch man!

I am well aware of it...However would like to know how did you reach this idiotic statement above??

Anyways, I'll save you the hard labour I've put in, just watch "Capitalism - A Love Story" by Michael Moore, it should give you a fair enough idea.

That's why it is said don't open mouth when you don't know about the other person...I have watched the movie and really like it...B/W answer the above question and then i can explain...

BTW, my point was not the Satyam scam or the financial crisis...my point was the response of the country's head to the crisis.When you are the PM and you say "The Satyam scam has shamed India." you do not know what damage are you doing to the country's reputation...you are making it an object of ridicule for everyone and THAT my friend is simply not done.

You do not say such words for your country no matter what happens! It's simply the poorest choice of words!

So basically you say that Satyam case was not a sham...It was perfectly legal??? Right genious???

This example was enough to prove that MMS is merely an economist, not a leader!

I never knew a leader is one who protect people who have used illegal means and risk investment in the country....I mean one should atleast think about the negative image that go when your third largest software industry has been caught with pants down and head of your state is trying to put the issue under carpet...Let me ask what in your eyes should have been MMS reply???

When did I say the people are not responsible?

I said "MMS is an inept, helpless and puppet PM unable to take tough decisions, unable to stand for his people when they need him the most and unable to connect with them or guide them when they need him the most!"...how does this mean that I have absolved us (the people) of any blame?

Again understand the comment first...I used your analogy and said that if we go by your logic then people of India are inept, helpless and puppet....because they have elected an inept, helpless and puppet PM for the second time...