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it will be good for Indian market if BSNL take products made in India yes chinise are cheapest source

but if India want to be a power then India should per mote products made in India

Yes, BSNL will built the system but there will be many private contractors as well as most of the equipments will be bought under COTS. Recently Alcatel-Lucent built a network along the LoC in Kashmir. Now they want to be one of the contractor under BSNL for this massive project as well.
 
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I read somewhere that we are looking to place an order for an additional 6 subs (on top of the 12 ordered already). I can't seem to find the source again, can someone else try and find something on it?
 
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I read somewhere that we are looking to place an order for an additional 6 subs (on top of the 12 ordered already). I can't seem to find the source again, can someone else try and find something on it?
Are you saying 6 on top of (6 scrorpene+6 second line sub)?
 
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yeah he is talking about project 75i. these will be announced soon. RFPs have been received and evaluations going on as we speak.

personally i would like U-boats to be selected....

and if another 6 are to be ordered then LADA with AIP as they are cheaper and are one of the most silent subs...
 
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Desperate step? Govt OKs 2000cr more for Scorpenes
In a bid to rescue India's underwater combat arm from sinking any further, the government has approved a huge cost escalation in the already mammoth Rs 18,798 crore project to construct six French Scorpene submarines at Mazagon Docks in Mumbai.

The Cabinet Committee on Security has given the formal nod to pay around Rs 2,000 crore more to French company DCNS\Armaris to get MPM (MDL procured material) packages for the submarines. These are crucial since they include all major systems connected with sensors, propulsion and the like for the vessels.

Despite both China and Pakistan rapidly bolstering their submarine fleets, the Scorpene project (P-75), under which one vessel was to roll every year from 2012 onwards, is already running over two years behind schedule, as was first reported by TOI.

Moreover, the government continues to dither over the proposed Rs 30,000 crore programme, called Project-75I, for the second line of next-generation submarines despite Navy pressing the panic buttons for its quick finalisation.

The main reason for the Scorpene project's delay has been the protracted negotiations for the MPM packages, with DCNS hiking its demand from around 400 million Euros to 700 million Euros for them.

This issue should have been sorted out when the Scorpene project — MDL is fabricating the hulls but has nothing to put inside them at present — was finalised in October 2005 itself. "It was a major goof-up by the defence ministry," said a source.

The main Rs 6,135 crore contract at that time was inked with M/s Armaris (DCN-Thales joint venture) for transfer of technology, combat systems and construction design, while the second one for Rs 1,062 crore was with M/s MBDA for sea-skimming Exocet missiles. The third Rs 5,888-crore contract was signed with MDL for indigenous submarine construction, with another Rs 3,553 crore earmarked for taxes and Rs 2,160 crore towards other items to be acquired during the project.

CAG reports, too, have blasted the government for taking nine years to finalise the Scorpene deal, which led to increase in the project cost by Rs 2,838 crore. Navy, on its part, has reason to be worried over the delays in P-75 as well as P-75I since it will be left with only nine out of its present fleet of 16 diesel-electric submarines (10 Russian Kilo-class, four German HDW and two virtually obsolete Foxtrot) by 2012-2013.

The number may further dip to just five by 2014-2015.

This when Pakistan is now looking to induct three advanced Type-214 German submarines, equipped with AIP (air-independent propulsion), after inducting three French Agosta-90B submarines, with the last one PNS Hamza even having AIP. China, in turn, has a staggering 62 submarines, with around 10 of them being nuclear-propelled, and at least one Xia-class and two Jin-class being armed with long-range nuclear missiles.
 
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yeah he is talking about project 75i. these will be announced soon. RFPs have been received and evaluations going on as we speak.

personally i would like U-boats to be selected....

and if another 6 are to be ordered then LADA with AIP as they are cheaper and are one of the most silent subs...

Can you post more information? our submarine fleet needs urgent attention, good to see that the government realizes this.
 
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It's not possible for us to stop anybody from selling to Pakistan, or China and that is not even necessary imo. As long as we get technically superior techs than they get, we still will have the advantage on our side!
Why should we bother about JF 17 with French Mirage F1/2K-5 a multi mode radar, while we could get Rafale with AESA radar?
The problem at the subs is, France already offered them their new Marlin class sub instead of U214, so even if we take the German sub, they might get a good sub too (although not too much is about Marlin class yet). Imo, they already got an advantage over our subs by fitting AIP on their Agosta 90B subs, which will make them quiter then our first Scorpenes. And the coasts of Pakistan are close, so they don't need to run the diesel so often and can be a serious threat to IN, especially if 3 more subs with German AIP will come in addition, so another new sub without AIP must be a total no go!

Totally agree with the bold part if PN got 214 then it will be a headache for IN in arabian sea... that's why i am saying if we buy 214 from germany and stop them to sell it to PN ..yes they can go for Merlin but as far as i know this sub still in its dev. phase so it will take atleast 10-15 years for PN to get these.... i think that will be too late for PN... :cool:
 
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NAIROBI (Reuters) - Indian navy commandos thwarted a suspected Somali pirate attack on the Greek bulk carrier Melina 1 off the Indian coast, East African maritime officials and the Indian navy said on Monday.

Andrew Mwangura, of the East African Seafarers Assistance Programme, said the weekend attack about 200 nautical miles (370 km) west of India's Lakshwadeep islands closely resembled those of Somali pirates.

"The location seems way outside Somali pirate territory but the unsuccessful attack seems to bear all the hallmarks of Somali pirates -- three mother ships, two skiffs," he told Reuters.

India's navy confirmed the incident, saying it despatched elite marine commandos, a coastguard vessel and an attack helicopter when it received a distress call from the Malta-flagged vessel during the early hours of Saturday.

"The hijacking attempt was successfully thwarted and we escorted the ship for awhile and she is now safe," Commander Roy Francis of the Indian navy told Reuters, adding that the team had returned to base.

The navy team was not sure of the identity of the pirates and Somali pirates had not previously been known to attack vessels so close to the Indian territory.

Mwangura said the vessel was transporting coal to India from Ukraine, with a 23-member Ukrainian-Filipino crew.

Somali pirate gangs typically hold hijacked ships for ransom, which often runs into millions of dollars.

Indian navy thwarts pirate attack on Greek ship | Top News | Reuters

:)
 
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Great job.War machines being wisely used in peace time.
Our Navy rules the Indian Ocean.
 
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which is best submarine at present scorpine, u-214, s-1000, lada or any other ????
 
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Indian navy to develop NBC training facility | Bio Prep Watch

India's navy has begun the creation of a nuclear, biological and chemical defense training facility.

The facility will be used to develop skills of Navy personnel to fight against deadly attacks resulting from either a conventional war or from terror groups.

A request for information has been issued by India's navy ahead of its issuance of a global tender to set up the shore-based NBC facility, which will feature simulators modeled on ships to create near-real scenarios for training its personnel.

"The Indian Navy intends to set up a Nuclear (Radiological), Biological and Chemical Defense training facility to train its personnel," PTINews.com reported the request for information documents as stating. "The facility is intended to be shore based."

The ship shaped steel structures that will make up the simulators will come equipped with equipment and systems to train personnel in achieving collective nuclear, biological and chemical protection through so-called "closing down" techniques, pre-wetting systems and platform decontamination.

The new training facility follows a recent announcement by India's Defense Research and Development Organization that a high priority will be placed on the development of systems to combat the challenges of terrorism, including the addition of better biological and chemical defense systems.
 
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which is best submarine at present scorpine, u-214, s-1000, lada or any other ????
AFAIK, only the Amur class is offered to IN and if wiki is right, it is a less capable version of Lada class. S1000 was offered from ITA and Russia, it combines the Amur class sub, with some features of the German subs, like the non magnetic hull of U 212, or the fuel cell AIP propulsion from Simens. The question is what INs requirements are? If only a smaller sub for the costal areas with high firepower, but less range and endurance is needed, than the S1000, or Amur class would be interesting, espcially if they can integrate Brahmos:

6914296cbdb5e127438b4722a9f4905b.jpg



Lada class submarine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Amur class submarine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

S1000 submarine class - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Type 214 submarine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Scorpène class submarine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Imo when it comes to submarines, stealth capabilities (low noise) and high class equipment to detect other subs, or vessels are more important than weapons. Not sure if the Russians can compete with the Europeans there and what ITA could offer too, but I hope IN makes a good and fast decision.
One thing that makes me curious is the combined offer of ITA and RUS, because what ITA offers are mainly techs of the U 212 that they co-developed with the Germans. Why don't they offer the U212 directly with the Germans instead?


Type 212 submarine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


My personal favourite would be 10 x U 212 with Brahmos (if that would be possible), because this would combine the best performance of the sub, with high firepower and not to forget the experience we already have with licence production of German subs.


Evolution and size comparison of German subs (209 1500 should be the subs in IN service):

26945c34b9e04d23447c63b33978bb4a.jpg

 
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The problem at the subs is, France already offered them their new Marlin class sub instead of U214, so even if we take the German sub, they might get a good sub too (although not too much is about Marlin class yet).
Imo, they already got an advantage over our subs by fitting AIP on their Agosta 90B subs, which will make them quiter then our first Scorpenes. And the coasts of Pakistan are close, so they don't need to run the diesel so often and can be a serious threat to IN, especially if 3 more subs with German AIP will come in addition, so another new sub without AIP must be a total no go!

No doubt the PN submarine fleet is and will be formidable. but I would like to point out a few things. Marlin is essentially a Scorpene with no inputs from Navantia (an X-tail does not make it uber :P). Moreover it is a paper sub at this point. In fact, the two companies are focussing on their own NG subs (France- Marlin & Spain- S-80). The truth be told, the Marlins are going to be horrendously expensive. I am not sure how many PN can acquire at this stage (I don't see more than 3). We are already hearing noises about PN trying to look at the Chinese Yuan class submarine.

I believe that PN is not going to pick a western design till IN decides on P-75I. This is also true thanks to the big numbers required by IN which makes all global players put pause buttons wrt pakistan. We would be naive to think that Germany decided to put the PN sale on hold for any other reason (The govt. of India has put lots of pressure on Germans and I will not be surprised if they win).

Right now, the only AIP sub with PN is the PNS Hamza. This is likely to remain the case for atleast 5-6 more years. Let us not jump the gun by saying we are doomed.

wrt AIP, it does not make a submarine quiter. That is a function of hull design and quieting technologies available. AIP helps with longer submerged operations (though very slow speeds) and thus reduces the need to surface when batteries dry out. Thus, logically speaking, scorpene which is a generation ahead of Agosta should be quieter.

From DCNS website:

Virtually undetectable, the Scorpene-class submarine patrols the sea at depths of 350m, traveling at high speed for long periods of time while remaining perfectly aware of everything around it.
The modular nature of its design makes it as easy to tailor the submarine to customers’ requirements as to include the latest technological innovations to maintain its operational superiority.

A jewel of high technology
The Scorpène, the most recent addition to DCNS’s range of conventional ocean-going submarines, has already won over the Chilean, Malaysian and Indian navies. There is nothing surprising about this choice when you consider its key advantages. It is capable of carrying out all types of mission imaginable for a submarine; it can hunt down other submarines, deliver commandoes to their destination or launch strikes from deep under the sea. Equipped to order with the MESMA air-independent propulsion system, it can remain submerged for periods in excess of 3 weeks.

Other key advantages distinguish the Scorpène-class submarine from the competitors: its high degree of security and reliability, its efficient combat system that allows it to compile information from all types of sensors and to use all types of weapons, its ability to communicate when submerged, its smaller crew requirements, etc.

The Scorpène heralds in the dawn of a new era for “conventional” deterrence. Its superiority resides in part in its acoustic advantage resulting from the combination of extreme acoustic discretion with a high-speed submarine detection capacity thanks to its unparalleled sonar suite

Though I would put most of the above to publicity hipe, it makes sense to consider Scorpenes to have lower noise signature than Agosta.

It is also interesting to note that DCNS website does not talk about Marlin but talks about another NG submarine (Andrasta) for coastal operations.

Andrasta Coastal Submarine for Littoral Operations - Naval Technology
10d5d67ff23917b53c63b5760073d447.jpg


In fact, the entire website is devoid of any mention of Marlin!
 
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