Indian Navy News & Discussions

[brahmastra]

Navy to commission UAV squadron at Porbandar

New Delhi: Aiming at enhancing coastal surveillance capabilities, the Navy is going to commission a squadron of Unmanned Aerial Vehicles (UAVs) at Porbandar in Gujarat on January 17.

The squadron will comprise Israeli-made Searcher and Heron UAVs and would help in enhancing our surveillance capabilities off the coast of Gujarat, Navy officials said here.

The Indian Navy had commissioned its first UAV reconnaissance squadron at its base in Kochi in January, 2006 and is one of the few maritime forces to be using such equipment.

The Navy is also planning to acquire high-altitude long endurance (HALE) UAVs.

In an RFI (Request For Information) issued recently, the Navy has specified that it wants a platform with at least 25 hours mission endurance, an all up weight of no more than 15 tons, service ceiling of 40,000 feet and cruise speed of 100 knots.

The Navy presently uses a small mix of Israeli Heron and Searcher Mk2 UAVs, and is making efforts to acquire shipborne unmanned rotorcraft.

Post 26/11, India has taken several measures to strengthen coastal security after terrorists sailed close to the Gujarat coast in a dhow and reached Mumbai to launch multiple attacks on various targets.

To plug gaps in the radar coverage of its over 7,500 km coastline, the Government has also decided to deploy coastal surveillance radars atop 90 light houses along both the eastern and western sea boards.

Under the plan, the light houses would also be fitted with cameras capable of operating during both day and night to keep an eye on the movement of vessels in coastal areas.

PTI

 

[ganimi kawa]

And this is why I love Indian Navy!

The Indian navy on Jan. 5 declared its commitment to helping the nation become self-reliant in critical defense technologies.



Rear Adm. D.M. Sudan, assistant chief of the naval staff for air, says homegrown products enhance India’s strategic flexibility. The navy is widely perceived as the only wing of the Indian armed forces that backs indigenous defense research and development (R&D), as compared to the army and air force.


“Imports will have to be arrested and we will have to reduce our dependency on foreign suppliers and manufacturers,” Sudan told a select group of scientists and technologists in Bengaluru. “Today, the navy is operating many ships that are designed and developed [by] Indian industries. We are completely committed to the Defense Research and Development Organization [DRDO] and are closely watching various projects that [are] undergoing trials.”



Given the growing expectations of the Indian armed forces, Sudan says there should be a better dialogue between national R&D organizations and the Indian navy. “We certainly need to communicate better, and we are keen to know the strengths of Indian R&D firms,” he says. “The private sector must be encouraged and roped in more for speedy production. Nonavailability of critical technology is a matter of great concern, and hence we are now entering into [joint ventures] with key players.”



He says the only way India can reduce its imports of foreign military technology is if DRDO’s work can be passed more quickly through industries to the Indian armed forces. “Modernization should go hand in hand with indigenization,” he declares. “The Indian navy is also closely watching developments with laser-guided bombs that are developed by DRDO.”

These Navy dudes are really comitted towards having a "builder's navy"!


Indian Army really needs to start taking some notes

( IAF seems to have started doing just that!).

 

[sancho]

These Navy dudes are really comitted towards having a "builder's navy"!

That's good as long as they don't put too much pride in it and see things a bit more rational! N-LCA for example is a complete waste of money and resources and their interest in a naval AMCA hints the same way.
N-LCA might have been a good idea when LCA development started, but now with the order of so many Mig 29s, it doesn't make sense to stick with an inferior fighter only because it is indigenous. Same will be the case for N-AMCA, when you can have N-Pak Fa/FGFA earlier (alongside other foreign fighters that will come before 2020 anyway).
So instead of reducing types and costs for naval fighters, IN is increasing them without a real need and although they could have use the money for other arms and techs.

Pushing indigenous developments yes, but only when they are worth it and there is no better solution!

 

[jha]

SAAB 340 MSA, SAAB 2000 MPA Offered for Indian Navy Maritime Surveillance Requirements

Swedish defense major Saab has confirmed to India Defence (indiadefence.in) that the SAAB 340 Maritime Security Aircraft and the SAAB 2000 Long Range Maritime Patrol Aircraft have been offered to the Indian Coast Guard and Indian Navy respectively to meet the security and surveillance requirements across India's vast coastline.

"We have already made a presentation to Coast Guard for SAAB 340 Maritime Security Aircraft as a contender for Mid-Tier Maritime Patrol (MTMP) aircraft program and are waiting for further updates from them."

"We have offered SAAB 2000 MPA to Indian Navy under medium-range maritime reconnaissance (MRMR) program."

-- Mr. Inderjit Sial, Saab's Country Head for India

Saab 340 MSA

The Saab 340 MSA is multi-role surveillance aircraft for detection, clasification and identification of maritime contacts. It is also a powerfull Search-And-Rescue asset and is capable of operating independently or in unison with other marine and land-based assets.

* Cost Effective Surveillance - With a maximum endurance of 7 hours and a maximum range in excess of 1,300 NM.
* Reliable Sensors - Equipped with proven sensors for detecting, classifying and identifying maritime surface contacts.

Saab 2000 MPA

The Saab 2000 MPA is a multi-role airborne surveillance platform for Maritime Domain Awareness. It offers Intelligence, Surveillance & Reconnaissance, ISR, maritime patrol and enforcement options either working alone or together with other assets and that ensures your command of the maritime arena.

* Long Range and Long Endurance - With a maximum endurance in excess of 9 hours and a maximum range in excess of 2000 nm.
* Advanced Sensors - The Saab 2000 MPA is equipped with advanced sensors for detecting, classifying and identifying surface and subsurface targets.


SAAB 340 MSA, SAAB 2000 MPA Offered for Indian Navy Maritime Surveillance Requirements | India Defence

 

[jha]

Saab 340 MSA

http://saabgroup.com/NR/rdonlyres/F...375614DFECA8/7517/Saab_340_MSA_Datasheet1.pdf

http://www.saabgroup.com/Air/Airbor...ance/Saab_340_MSA_Maritime_Security_Aircraft/

 

[jha]

Saab 2000 MPA

Saab 2000 MPA - Maritime Patrol Aircraft

 

[ganimi kawa]

That's good as long as they don't put too much pride in it and see things a bit more rational! N-LCA for example is a complete waste of money and resources and their interest in a naval AMCA hints the same way.
N-LCA might have been a good idea when LCA development started, but now with the order of so many Mig 29s, it doesn't make sense to stick with an inferior fighter only because it is indigenous. Same will be the case for N-AMCA, when you can have N-Pak Fa/FGFA earlier (alongside other foreign fighters that will come before 2020 anyway).
So instead of reducing types and costs for naval fighters, IN is increasing them without a real need and although they could have use the money for other arms and techs.

Pushing indigenous developments yes, but only when they are worth it and there is no better solution!

I have a fair deal of doubts about N LCA, too. When you follow a policy, getting overzealous is always a possibility.

Though, I do not think that IN will go ahead with the contract if the prototypes do not fulfill their criterion. Remember that they did reject ALH Dhruv.

I wish we could have a stealthy variant of LCA (like rafale D or the F-15 SE) as mk2 or mk3. Navalising that for CAP duties would be a much better solution than N-AMCA.

About N-PAK FA, if it is developed by the time IAC-3 is on , IN will go for it.

Pushing indigenous developments yes, but only when they are worth it and there is no better solution!

So far, almost always IN has done exactly that (?NLCA)! Any indian naval ship is a zoo with indian, russian and western systems!

 

[angeldemon_007]

N-LCA might have been a good idea when LCA development started, but now with the order of so many Mig 29s, it doesn't make sense to stick with an inferior fighter only because it is indigenous.

IN is not buying much N-LCA fighter, i think they order 8-10 only and that too just to keep the assembly line going. I think its a wise decision. Even IAF is also not placing a big order, they are waiting for mkII.

Same will be the case for N-AMCA, when you can have N-Pak Fa/FGFA earlier (alongside other foreign fighters that will come before 2020 anyway).

I don't think IN will buy N-PakFa because of its large size and relatively smaller AC. I heard, there were talks about N-PakFa but IN decided to go for smaller and home grown version (AMCA).
I don't know which fighters will be there by 2020 and which will be available to India.

But i am sure this a right move. We have recently gained momentum in our aviation industry and we should continue. Its true, we have to spend some money but we should not stop right now because then we will be making the same mistakes that we made in 1960s and 1970s.

Also whatever we are learning we should also implement them to make sure we have learnt correctly and that too side by side because if we face any problem we could figure it out while our JVs are going on.

NLCA is necessary because HAL has to have experience designing naval version of a fighter because there are quite a few changes even in the designing of AC borne fighter aircraft.

 

[saurav]

What you guys think about a Submarine Hunting force with a LHD having ASW helicopters flying off it and ASW boats considering the submarine threat our navy will face in coming days.

 

[jha]

What you guys think about a Submarine Hunting force with a LHD having ASW helicopters flying off it and ASW boats considering the submarine threat our navy will face in coming days.

Good idea...Get Juan Carlos/Mistral.. Fill it up with ASW helis , Add a ASW corvette, a frigate and a destroyer and you have got a Submarine Slayer force at your disposal..

 

[The King in the North]

What you guys think about a Submarine Hunting force with a LHD having ASW helicopters flying off it and ASW boats considering the submarine threat our navy will face in coming days.

we are already building dedicated asw corvettes(p 28) these will also carry a asw helicopters. am pretty sure these corvettes wont be sent off alone to hunt for the subs.... so there you have your asw force

 

[jha]

DCNS all out to woo Indian Navy

New Delhi. India should be able to produce more than one sophisticated submarine every year, thanks to the transfer of high technology from the France-based leader in naval defence systems, DCNS.




According to Patrick Boissier, Chairman and CEO of DCNS, which is executing India’s biggest submarine building programme for six diesel-electric Scorpene submarines, said that India’s Mazagon Docks Ltd (MDL) had already “absorbed the demanding technologies associated with hull fabrication” and that hulls for the first two submarines had been completed.

The delivery of the advanced combat systems for the first submarine would also be complete soon.

Boissier, who was in New Delhi as part of French Pressident Nicolas Sarkozy’s delegation, told newsmen that “construction of hulls for the third and fourth submarines was in progress while the frame to receive the hull of the fifth submarine is under manufacture.”

Boissier observed that Asia would see a staggering growth in the number of submarines in the next 10 years, and various countries in the region could acquire some 100 submarines. There were naval defence opportunities both in South-east Asia and the Arab Gulf region.

DCNS was particularly keen to cooperate with Indian companies, both public and private sector towards building indigenous capabilities, and also to invest in the defence sector in India for building ships and submarines.

He said that DCNS was looking up to collaborating with India on the next line of six more submarines, as also to supply components for nuclear power plants. France has proposed that its Areva should build several 1650 MW units. Areva has developed technology for the biggest and the most advanced nuclear power plants in the world.

Notably, the Scorpene project has been delayed but Boissier said that at present, DCNS was “conducting genuine transfers of technologies and of know-how at an unprecedented level.”

“We are providing our Indian partners with technical assistance to manufacture equipments through indigenisation programmes.”

It may be recalled that India had bought four HDW submarines from Germany in the 1980s, but due to controversies and allegations, whatever transfer of technology was done was lost, and all those who trained on the contemporary systems of the 1980s, have retired or left MDL.

According to MDL Chairman and Managing Director Vice Admiral H S Mahi, the first Scorpene should be launched by 2014, and the process should be smooth in the new timeframe.

He also says that MDL could now make submarine pressure hulls without any foreign collaboration.

Boissier visited MDL and met with Mahi to review the progress of the Scorpene construction.
It may be noted that MDL is sourcing some important critical sub-systems from other companies. Nonetheless, DCNS has offered to modify the Scorpene design and supply Air Independent Propulsion (AIP) systems for the last of the two submarines.

The Indian Navy is terribly short of submarine capability, loaded as it has been with the old Soviet vintage Foxtrot and Kilo class, and four German HDWs. A tender for six more P 75-I more advanced submarines, with AIP capability for longer underwater stay, is likely to be floated in 2011 for simultaneous construction at two or three shipyards to make up for the delay in acquisition.

The underlying theme though is Transfer of Technology and building indigenous capabilities. The value of this project could be twice that of the current Scorpene project, and match or exceed the estimated $ 10 billion-plus cost of 126 Medium Multi Role Aircraft (M-MRCAs) being acquired by the Indian Air Force (IAF).

Boissier said that it should be logical for DCNS to bag this project, as an extension of the ToT that it would have transferred to the Indian shipyard.

“We understand that India wants to build indigenous capabilities, and we are ready to transfer the best of the technologies.”

As for the AIP, the tender for the Scorpenes did not have this requirement, but DCNS had now offered to fit this system on the last of the two submarines under the ongoing project.

"We have made an informal proposal to the Navy for AIP technology in the last two of the Scorpenes that will be built at MDL. Now it is up to the navy to take a call on this proposal. We have held informal discussions in this regard."

AIP allows a submarine to operate without the need to surface or use a snorkel to access atmospheric oxygen and it usually excludes the use of nuclear power, but is about augmenting or replacing diesel-electric propulsion system of non-nuclear vessels. US, Russia, France, Germany, Spain and Sweden are some of the countries which have the AIP technology on their submarines.

Boissier concluded: Through local partnership arrangements, such as the one we have with MDL, we can offer the Indian Navy the ability to build vessels in India, based on proven designs and incorporating the full range of DCNS technologies. Local partnerships will also facilitate in-service maintenance and through-life support. These are win-win partnerships for greater heights, where all parties enhance their capabilities."

..:: India Strategic ::. Indian Navy: DCNS all out to woo Indian Navy

 

[sancho]

Though, I do not think that IN will go ahead with the contract if the prototypes do not fulfill their criterion. Remember that they did reject ALH Dhruv.

But there is a big difference, Dhruv was never made for IN specially, HAL made different versions, but N-LCA was developed especially for IN with their fundings as well and AFAIL IN pushed the LCA development from the start with a naval version in mind. The initial aim was way higher numbers of N-LCAs for Gorshkov and IAC1, but with the delays they reduced it more and more.

What I found strange from the begining was, that IAF said LCA with 6.5t was too heavy, but IN, wants a carrier version that adds more weight, can take off with limited load only via ski jump and to top it, they even plan a twin seat version, that will be even heavier.

Even with a little bit of logic, wouldn't it be the best choice to use only single seat N-LCAs in air defense (with the lightest loads) roles in higher numbers and additional twin seat Mig 29s for air superiority and strikes in smaller numbers?
Where is the need of a twin seat N-LCA that can carry less, is less maneuverable and has less range?
Imo the whole N-LCA development has nothing to do with logic, or the best fighters for the carriers, but mainly with pride.

About N-PAK FA, if it is developed by the time IAC-3 is on , IN will go for it.

True, but I think IAC 2 and 3 will be the same class and probably will have the same mix of airwing, similar to Gorshkov and IAC1. My guess is naval MMRCA first and naval Pak Fa / FGFA in addition later.

 

[sancho]

I don't think IN will buy N-PakFa because of its large size and relatively smaller AC.

IAC 2 expected at 65 000t which is even bigger than the Russian Admiral Kuznetsov and it carries a dozen Flanker size fighters and they plan with new carriers and naval Pak Fa as well. The only question is, when they will develop them, because I think IN will get the carrier earlier than the Russians, by the lack of funds.

What you guys think about a Submarine Hunting force with a LHD having ASW helicopters flying off it and ASW boats considering the submarine threat our navy will face in coming days.

Very much, not only in the ASW role, but also to cover a bigger area in the anti piracy role. We discussed that often here, but it seems IN have a different point of view and that's why they aim only on LPDs and not on multi role LHDs.

we are already building dedicated asw corvettes(p 28) these will also carry a asw helicopters. am pretty sure these corvettes wont be sent off alone to hunt for the subs.... so there you have your asw force

But you need several of such vessels and several helicopters to cover the same area, that a single LHD with numbers of helicopters would. That's why the Japanese use LHD/helicopter carriers for the ASW role as well:

Hyūga class helicopter destroyer

Hy?ga class helicopter destroyer - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[angeldemon_007]

But there is a big difference, Dhruv was never made for IN specially

No actually hal offered dhruv to IN but it was rejected. They even offered to make changes but IN rejected it also because not enough changes where possible.

Where is the need of a twin seat N-LCA that can carry less, is less maneuverable and has less range?

I don't think navy is going to buy enough just like IAF. I read right they only placed order of 8 fighters and it appears they are looking towards other fighters instead. They placed the order just to keep the production line going.

True, but I think IAC 2 and 3 will be the same class and probably will have the same mix of airwing, similar to Gorshkov and IAC1.

Well this is the first time. I never heard about IAC 3. Any info to share ??/

My guess is naval MMRCA first and naval Pak Fa / FGFA in addition later.

N PakFa is not being considered by IN. Instead navy is going for N-AMCA, its mainly because of the large size of the fighter and the relatively small size of Aircaft Carriers.
I hope IN buys F35 for IAC 2.

Also they should start working on the designing, features of IAC2 because all those takes time and since the second AC will be of the range of 60000 tons and they want it by 2017.

Then the wise decision would be to start the work at least on the paper because designing also takes a lot of time. Also we might even think of trying something new on IAC2 like nuclear powered, Emals etc.

Does anybody knows about the next Arihant Subs. According to wiki 2nd and 3rd sub was supposed to be launched in 2010, while 4th one will be launched in 2011. I don't think they stick to the time frame but does anybody knows about the progress of next arihant sub.