Indian Navy News & Discussions

[Capt.Popeye]

This is about $5 million USD, right? What exactly will this money be used to do in starting the IAC-2 project? This much has not become clear, obviously they aren't cutting the steel for her immediately and the final design should already have been completed so that's not going to require any more (significant) funding.

The MoD/IN are still yet to clarify the IAC-2's roadmap i.e. when will her keel be laid? When will she be floated out? When will she be fitter out? When will she undergo trails? When will she be commissioned? We don't even know yet if she is to be nuclear powered (a pretty basic element).


@sancho @Penguin @MilSpec @Capt.Popeye @Water Car Engineer @Chanakya's_Chant @nair @Dillinger

The final design is yet to be frozen. The money involved is just a token, to initiate the Project and it associated Team and other paraphernalia.

 

[Abingdonboy]

 

[Abingdonboy]

 

[Chanakya's_Chant]

This is about $5 million USD, right? What exactly will this money be used to do in starting the IAC-2 project? This much has not become clear, obviously they aren't cutting the steel for her immediately and the final design should already have been completed so that's not going to require any more (significant) funding.

The MoD/IN are still yet to clarify the IAC-2's roadmap i.e. when will her keel be laid? When will she be floated out? When will she be fitter out? When will she undergo trails? When will she be commissioned? We don't even know yet if she is to be nuclear powered (a pretty basic element).


@sancho @Penguin @MilSpec @Capt.Popeye @Water Car Engineer @Chanakya's_Chant @nair @Dillinger

In 2011, Admiral Nirmal Kumar Verma stated that construction of the second carrier was some years away as there were a number of higher spending priorities for the navy. But in 2012 came reports that the design stage of IAC-II has begun, and was undertaken by the navy’s Naval Design Bureau. If it were so then I am sure the NDB would have at least finalized the preliminary design of the same which is not the case. The design stage of IAC-II began in 2012, and was undertaken by the navy’s Naval Design Bureau.

Second indigenous carrier a long way off: Navy Chief - The Hindu
India starts work on second indigenous aircraft carrier - IBNLive

Lets have a look at the timeline of IAC-I / Vikrant-Class Aircraft Carriers -

In 1989 India announced a plan to replace its ageing British-built aircraft carriers, Vikrant and Viraat, with two new 28,000 ton Air Defence Ships (ADS) that would operate the BAE Sea Harrier aircraft. The first vessel was to replace Vikrant, which was set to decommission in early 1997. Construction of the ADS was to start at the Cochin Shipyard (CSL) in 1993 after the Indian Naval Design Organisation had translated this design study into a production model. Following the 1991 economic crisis, the plans for construction of the vessels were put on hold indefinitely.

In 1999, then Defence Minister George Fernandes revived the project and sanctioned the construction of the Project 71 ADS. By that time, given the ageing Sea Harrier fleet, the letter of intent called for a carrier that would carry more modern jet fighters.

In 2001, CSL released a graphic illustration showing the 32,000-ton STOBAR (Short Take-Off But Arrested Recovery) design with a pronounced ski jump. The aircraft carrier project finally received formal government approval in January 2003. By then, design updates called for a 37,500 ton carrier to operate the MiG-29K. India opted for a three-carrier fleet consisting of one carrier battle group stationed on each seaboard, and a third carrier held in reserve, in order to continuously protect both its flanks, to protect economic interests and mercantile traffic, and to provide humanitarian platforms in times of disasters, since a carrier can provide a self-generating supply of fresh water, medical assistance or engineering expertise to populations in need for assistance.

In 2006, then Chief of the Naval Staff, Admiral Arun Prakash stated that the designation for the vessel had been changed from Air Defence Ship (ADS) to Indigenous Aircraft Carrier (IAC). The euphemistic ADS had been adopted in planning stages to ward off concerns about a naval build-up. Final revisions to the design increased the displacement of the carriers from 37,500 tons to over 40,000 tons. The length of the ship also increased from 252 metres (827 ft) to over 260 metres (850 ft).

And then it was laid down in 2009 - launched in 2013 and would be commissioned by 2018-19.

The problem is as time passes - requirements and plans also change along as evident in the case of INS Vikrant which is full of delays and cost overruns. I wish they start it's construction at the earliest to avoid delays and cost over runs - Realistically they would probably start its construction in 2017-18 and then in 2024-25 we might see it being commissioned?

 

[Abingdonboy]

In 2011, Admiral Nirmal Kumar Verma stated that construction of the second carrier was some years away as there were a number of higher spending priorities for the navy. But in 2012 came reports that the design stage of IAC-II has begun, and was undertaken by the navy’s Naval Design Bureau. If it were so then I am sure the NDB would have at least finalized the preliminary design of the same which is not the case. The design stage of IAC-II began in 2012, and was undertaken by the navy’s Naval Design Bureau.

Second indigenous carrier a long way off: Navy Chief - The Hindu
India starts work on second indigenous aircraft carrier - IBNLive

Lets have a look at the timeline of IAC-I / Vikrant-Class Aircraft Carriers -

In 1989 India announced a plan to replace its ageing British-built aircraft carriers, Vikrant and Viraat, with two new 28,000 ton Air Defence Ships (ADS) that would operate the BAE Sea Harrier aircraft. The first vessel was to replace Vikrant, which was set to decommission in early 1997. Construction of the ADS was to start at the Cochin Shipyard (CSL) in 1993 after the Indian Naval Design Organisation had translated this design study into a production model. Following the 1991 economic crisis, the plans for construction of the vessels were put on hold indefinitely.

In 1999, then Defence Minister George Fernandes revived the project and sanctioned the construction of the Project 71 ADS. By that time, given the ageing Sea Harrier fleet, the letter of intent called for a carrier that would carry more modern jet fighters.

In 2001, CSL released a graphic illustration showing the 32,000-ton STOBAR (Short Take-Off But Arrested Recovery) design with a pronounced ski jump. The aircraft carrier project finally received formal government approval in January 2003. By then, design updates called for a 37,500 ton carrier to operate the MiG-29K. India opted for a three-carrier fleet consisting of one carrier battle group stationed on each seaboard, and a third carrier held in reserve, in order to continuously protect both its flanks, to protect economic interests and mercantile traffic, and to provide humanitarian platforms in times of disasters, since a carrier can provide a self-generating supply of fresh water, medical assistance or engineering expertise to populations in need for assistance.

In 2006, then Chief of the Naval Staff, Admiral Arun Prakash stated that the designation for the vessel had been changed from Air Defence Ship (ADS) to Indigenous Aircraft Carrier (IAC). The euphemistic ADS had been adopted in planning stages to ward off concerns about a naval build-up. Final revisions to the design increased the displacement of the carriers from 37,500 tons to over 40,000 tons. The length of the ship also increased from 252 metres (827 ft) to over 260 metres (850 ft).

And then it was laid down in 2009 - launched in 2013 and would be commissioned by 2018-19.

The problem is as time passes - requirements and plans also change along as evident in the case of INS Vikrant which is full of delays and cost overruns. I wish they start it's construction at the earliest to avoid delays and cost over runs - Realistically they would probably start its construction in 2017-18 and then in 2023-24 we might see it being commissioned?

I think what is holding up the finalisation of the design for the IAC-II is the a) propulsion and b) EMALS or no EMALS. CATAOBAR is all but confirmed but now EMALS is on the table and all of a sudden we have started hearing about nuclear propulsion for the IAC-II, the CNS even said as much. These are clearly two BIG decisions that need to be taken and are strategic in nature. I'm certain the rest of the design is complete and the very fact the DAC has cleared this project and released funds indicates this project is all but finalised behind the scenes but they (MoD/GoI/IN) are keeping hush-hush for now.


I think the timeline is likely to be, construction beginning in 2017 with completion around 2024-5 and commissioning in 2025-6 after extensive sea trails.

 

[Transhumanist]

Since this thread is also for discussion, as well as news, I'd like to ask a question. Does anyone know if the IN is working on a railgun? And if so is there any public updates? I imaging they are, but would like some confirmation or teasers.

Thank you! And if you'd like to see the US Navy's railgun progress, head here:

US military news, discussions and history | Page 24

 

[Heinz Guderian]

Since this thread is also about discussion, as well as news, I'd like to ask a question. Does anyone know if the IN is working on a railgun? And if so is there any public updates?

Thank you and if you'd like to see the US Navy's railgun progress, head here:

US military news, discussions and history | Page 24

Nope they are not,

And if they are, then this is highly secretive.

 

[Abingdonboy]

@Water Car Engineer @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR @Koovie @Chanakya's_Chant @Major Shaitan Singh

I know this is PKS but still interesting and worth discussing/pondering:


The IN is more interested than the IA on the Kestrel 8 x 8 ICV for its proposed amphibious warfare brigade. Matters on this will progress before the year’s end.

Do you guys see what I see at the back of this beast

 

[Agent_47]

New russian carrier design with N-PAKFA on board.

Russia's Krylovsky State Research Center (KRSC) has developed a new multipurpose heavy aircraft carrier design called Project 23000E or Shtorm (Storm).

A scale model of the ship is going to be demonstrated for the first time at the International Maritime Defence Show 2015 in St Petersburg from 1-5 July, Valery Polyakov, the deputy director of KSC, told IHS Jane's .

"The Project 23000E multipurpose aircraft carrier is designed to conduct operations in remote and oceanic areas, engage land-based and sea-borne enemy targets, ensure the operational stability of naval forces, protect landing troops, and provide the anti-aircraft defence," Polyakov said.

The design has a displacement of 90-100,000 tons, is 330 m in length, 40 m wide, and has a draft of 11 m. It has a top speed of 30 kt, cruising speed of 20 kt, a 120-day endurance, a crew of 4-5,000, and designed to withstand sea state 6-7. Currently it has been designed with a conventional power plant, although this could be replaced by a nuclear one, according to potential customers' requirements.

The ship carries a powerful air group of 80-90 deck-based aircraft for various combat missions. The model features a split air wing comprising navalised T-50 PAKFAs and MiG-29Ks, as well as jet-powered naval early warning aircraft, and Ka-27 naval helicopters.

The carrier's flight deck is of a dual design, features an angled flight deck, and four launching positions: two via ski-jump ramps and two via electromagnetic catapults. One set of arrestor gear is included in the design. The design also features two islands; a feature only previously seen on the latest UK design.

Protection against air threats will be provided by four anti-aircraft missile system combat modules. An anti-torpedo armament suite is available.

The electronic support complex includes integrated sensors, including a multifunction phased array radar, electronic warfare system, and communications suite.

Polyakov pointed out that these specifications are subject to change, correction, and modification during the ship's design and development at every stage of work, once potential customers come up with a demand to change the weapons package and equipment.

 

[Abingdonboy]

New russian carrier design with N-PAKFA on board.

The Russians are good (like the Chinese) at developing cool looking concepts/designs. Turning this into a reality is where they fail again and again.

That's a ramp so they have no intention of making the PAK-FA able to launch using catapults- what the IN really wants.

 

[The Huskar]

@Water Car Engineer @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR @Koovie @Chanakya's_Chant @Major Shaitan Singh

I know this is PKS but still interesting and worth discussing/pondering:


The IN is more interested than the IA on the Kestrel 8 x 8 ICV for its proposed amphibious warfare brigade. Matters on this will progress before the year’s end.

Do you guys see what I see at the back of this beast

Are you taking about the propulsion pump??

 

[Abingdonboy]

Are you taking about the propulsion pump??

Indeed

 

[The Huskar]

Indeed

Is the IA ordering them or are they still stuck with those vintage BMP's

 

[Abingdonboy]

Is the IA ordering them or are they still stuck with those vintage BMP's

FICV is meant to address the BMP replacement but god knows where that is going.


It would be so telling of the current state of affairs should the Indian NAVY be the ones to induct a new ICV before the ARMY!

 

[uparyupari]

In 2011, Admiral Nirmal Kumar Verma stated that construction of the second carrier was some years away as there were a number of higher spending priorities for the navy. But in 2012 came reports that the design stage of IAC-II has begun, and was undertaken by the navy’s Naval Design Bureau. If it were so then I am sure the NDB would have at least finalized the preliminary design of the same which is not the case. The design stage of IAC-II began in 2012, and was undertaken by the navy’s Naval Design Bureau.

Second indigenous carrier a long way off: Navy Chief - The Hindu
India starts work on second indigenous aircraft carrier - IBNLive

Lets have a look at the timeline of IAC-I / Vikrant-Class Aircraft Carriers -

In 1989 India announced a plan to replace its ageing British-built aircraft carriers, Vikrant and Viraat, with two new 28,000 ton Air Defence Ships (ADS) that would operate the BAE Sea Harrier aircraft. The first vessel was to replace Vikrant, which was set to decommission in early 1997. Construction of the ADS was to start at the Cochin Shipyard (CSL) in 1993 after the Indian Naval Design Organisation had translated this design study into a production model. Following the 1991 economic crisis, the plans for construction of the vessels were put on hold indefinitely.

In 1999, then Defence Minister George Fernandes revived the project and sanctioned the construction of the Project 71 ADS. By that time, given the ageing Sea Harrier fleet, the letter of intent called for a carrier that would carry more modern jet fighters.

In 2001, CSL released a graphic illustration showing the 32,000-ton STOBAR (Short Take-Off But Arrested Recovery) design with a pronounced ski jump. The aircraft carrier project finally received formal government approval in January 2003. By then, design updates called for a 37,500 ton carrier to operate the MiG-29K. India opted for a three-carrier fleet consisting of one carrier battle group stationed on each seaboard, and a third carrier held in reserve, in order to continuously protect both its flanks, to protect economic interests and mercantile traffic, and to provide humanitarian platforms in times of disasters, since a carrier can provide a self-generating supply of fresh water, medical assistance or engineering expertise to populations in need for assistance.

In 2006, then Chief of the Naval Staff, Admiral Arun Prakash stated that the designation for the vessel had been changed from Air Defence Ship (ADS) to Indigenous Aircraft Carrier (IAC). The euphemistic ADS had been adopted in planning stages to ward off concerns about a naval build-up. Final revisions to the design increased the displacement of the carriers from 37,500 tons to over 40,000 tons. The length of the ship also increased from 252 metres (827 ft) to over 260 metres (850 ft).

And then it was laid down in 2009 - launched in 2013 and would be commissioned by 2018-19.

The problem is as time passes - requirements and plans also change along as evident in the case of INS Vikrant which is full of delays and cost overruns. I wish they start it's construction at the earliest to avoid delays and cost over runs - Realistically they would probably start its construction in 2017-18 and then in 2023-24 we might see it being commissioned?

You are correct. INS Vishal is not going to appear any time soon.

The best case scenario is 2030. A more realistic and pragmatic assessment will be 2033-35.

So far budget is assigned only to study the concept and design. This itself will take 2 years. Then the Ship actually have to be designed which will take a minimum of 3 years, then there is the whole process of getting it sanctioned and allocating budget which will take at least 1 year (assuming its Modi sarkar), its reasonable to assume 2 years for this. Its already 2021-22 by now.

Then the actual ship building will start. Assuming we increase our efficiency dramatically, even then the ship building of a 65 k Ton AC will take a minimum of 8-10 years. i.e 2032. A few more years for trials and commissioning i.e. 2035.


This is best case scenario, if the situation changes or plan changes mid way then you can add another 5 to 10 years for the process. 2040.


Which is why GoI and IN should seriously consider taking up CSL offer of building another 40 k Ton Vikrant class by 2020. It would be a LOT cheaper to build it now than after 15 years when the build cost will be closer to 15 billion $ for the new ship. Besides Naval LCA would be ready by then.