Dillinger
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That's the general idea. 2 carriers, one Indian and one Russian for two primary naval commands.
Indian Navy News & Discussions
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That's the general idea. 2 carriers, one Indian and one Russian for two primary naval commands.
Chanakya's_Chant
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If you are talking about INS Viraat then its is to be decommissioned in 2019-20...
SRP
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For your kind information there is nothing called INAF. It is Indian Naval Air Arm.
kaykay
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Here no one is talking about older present INS Viraat!! Here we are talking about India's first Indigenous aircraft carrier INS Vikrant which is yet to be commissioned.
Black Widow
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Because Soviet helped us building it..
ok Joke apart...Apart from USN no one else use CATOBAR configuration (US shared the technology with France too)..
.
Why Russia didn't made CATOBAR carriers? : Were they not capable?? Not true, Russian never believed in CBG, rather they believed in Missile, Kiev Class vessel is not Carrier rather Aviation cruiser, Russian first carrier is Kujestnov class Carrier.
Can u see missile here???
2 of Kiev class ship was bought by china for reverse engineering... (Kiev and minsk)
This is Kujestnov Class carrier , one with russia and second bought by china for reverse engineering..
Russia didn't used CATOBAR configuration because of extreme cold weather as well...
Why India didn't go for CATOBAR : If you go by History, India never planned to make Carrier, the plan was to make LHD (Helo carrier), Later which was changed to Aircraft carrier. USA was pro Pakistan , and that would hindered our dream of having own Carrier.
As one great person (me) twice said : Defense production/research is evolutionary process, not revolutionary... Our next carrier will be CATOBAR. (Some ppl suggesting it will have both configuration like planned "Ulyanovsk "
Dillinger
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Because Soviet helped us building it..
Apart from USN no one else use CATOBAR configuration (US shared the technology with France too)..
.
Why Russia didn't made CATOBAR carriers? : Were they not capable?? Not true, Russian never believed in CBG, rather they believed in Missile, Kiev Class vessel is not Carrier rather Aviation cruiser, Russian first carrier is Kujestnov class Carrier.
Can u see missile here???
2 of Kiev class ship was bought by china for reverse engineering... (Kiev and minsk)
This is Kujestnov Class carrier , one with russia and second bought by china for reverse engineering..
Russia didn't used CATOBAR configuration because of extreme cold weather as well...
Why India didn't go for CATOBAR : If you go by History, India never planned to make Carrier, the plan was to make LHD (Helo carrier), Later which was changed to Aircraft carrier. USA was pro Pakistan , and that would hindered our dream of having own Carrier.
As one great person (me) twice said : Defense production/research is evolutionary process, not revolutionary... Our next carrier will be CATOBAR. (Some ppl suggesting it will have both configuration like planned "Ulyanovsk "
We opt for CATOBAR though and the Ks will not be suitable for that AC. Nightmare scenario if we have to operate hornets too.
Although a better AEW&C than the Kamov-oko combo is welcome. IF only the US had pursued the S-3 AEW variant.
vsdave2302
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One thing I do not know is why do we feed this bloody public sector Who can not do any thing in time ? They can not even produce Pinaka rocket in given quantity. Once the R & D is complete or design is freezed, we should hand over the production to party which is efficient and cost effective. This Public sectors not only only take more time and cost but they are dangerous for national security as they delay critical equipment of national safety. After successful construction of Arihant, they should have given contract to L&T but I think that they have given this to some body else. All R&D projects should be run under a Project Manager with full responsibility to to complete in time and cost. They should be promoted on the basis of completion of the projects they are looking after. We are not sure when IAC 2 & 3 come. IAC-2 was supposed to Join by now
Black Eagle 90
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We opt for CATOBAR though and the Ks will not be suitable for that AC. Nightmare scenario if we have to operate hornets too.
Although a better AEW&C than the Kamov-oko combo is welcome. IF only the US had pursued the S-3 AEW variant.
So does IN looking in to Rafael-M or Super Hornets for their IAC-2 and IAC-3 if being supplied with CATOBAR from France or USA???
Please elaborate in details as there were some serious discussion as IN really like the performance of Rafael and F-18E/Fs???
Dillinger
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skysthelimit
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Misses, waits & progress in naval missiles
Long-delayed Indo-Israeli anti-missile system to be tried this month
Ajai Shukla | New Delhi August 2, 2013
The aircraft carrier INS Vikramaditya, formerly the Admiral Gorshkov, expected to join the Indian Navy later this year, is already late by five years and its price has risen three-fold, from $947 million in 2004 to $2.3 billion today.
And, it emerges now that for the next three years or so, Vikramaditya will function without effective defences against anti-ship missiles, a key threat to warships today. For this, the Russians are not to blame; the Israelis are. The futuristic missile defence system supposed to be fitted on the Vikramaditya, called the Long Range Surface to Air Missile (LR-SAM), is also late by at least three years. The LR-SAM is a missile, fired from a warship to shoot down an incoming anti-ship missile at ranges out to 70 kilometres. Israel Aerospace Industries (IAI) is developing the LR-SAM in partnership with the Defence R&D Organisation (DRDO).
On Thursday, the Vice Chief of Naval Staff, Vice Admiral R K Dhowan, said here that Vikramaditya would arrive without a “close in weapons system” (CIWS, pronounced sea-whiz), a ship-borne system to destroy incoming missiles and aircraft.
The navy will fit an AK-630 rapid-fire gun system on the Vikramaditya when it arrives but the more potent LR-SAM will only be fitted during the aircraft carrier’s first refit. That would be at least three years down the line.
Given these continuing delays, the navy’s ageing INS Virat, already half a century old, will continue in service till 2018. INS Vikrant, the aircraft carrier being built at Cochin Shipyard Ltd, is being launched on August 12 but will only enter operational service by end-2018, says Dhowan.
The LR-SAM was to be ready by 2011 for equipping three Indian destroyers that Mazagon Dock Ltd is building in Mumbai under the so-called Project 15A. The delay has held up Project 15A, with INS Kolkata, the first warship in this series, floating in the docks for the past seven years. INS Chennai and INS Kochi, the other two destroyers in Project 15A, are delayed, too.
However, there is light at the end of this tunnel. Business Standard has learnt that a DRDO team is heading for Israel for the first “hot test” of the LR-SAM this month. This will check out the functioning of all the missile systems — detection, propulsion, guidance, command and control — in tandem. While the radar, control and navigation systems were tested last year, this will be the first test of the entire system functioning together.
Says DRDO chief, Avinash Chander, “The crucial part of the test will be the missile’s ability to perform manoeuvres. After this full-configuration test, we will carry out trials next year from a ship. There are always uncertainties when one is developing a system of a technology class that exists nowhere in the world.”
In exclusive briefings at the DRDO’s missile cluster in Hyderabad, Business Standard was told that the Israeli company was developing the front section of the LR-SAM, including the seeker head that guides the missile, the front controller, command electronics and the explosive warhead that destroys the target.
The DRDO has developed the rear section, including the two-pulse rocket motor, the rear controller, the thrust vector control and the folded fins. DRDO scientists and designers have also participated in the Israeli part of the development.
The LR-SAM is made especially deadly by its two-pulse rocket motor. The first pulse propels the missile towards the incoming target, while a ship-borne radar tracks the enemy missile continuously, transmitting course corrections to the LR-SAM. When the LR-SAM is near the target, its seeker locks on to the target, taking on the job of guidance. Simultaneously, the rocket motor fires its second pulse, imparting to the LR-SAM a high velocity which leaves the target with little time to manoeuvre. The LR-SAM has both front and rear steering, which allows it to manoeuvre sharply, remaining locked on to even a twisting and turning target.
Once tested and proven, many LR-SAM components will be built in India. The DRDO says it has developed suppliers within Indian industry, with two vendors developed for each sub-system. For example, Godrej and SEC, a company in Hyderabad, will build the two-pulse rocket motor.
A ground-based version of the LR-SAM is simultaneously being developed for the Indian Air Force, which is desperately short of air defence systems.
http://www.business-standard.com/ar...rogress-in-naval-missiles-113080101197_1.html
Long-delayed Indo-Israeli anti-missile system to be tried this month
Ajai Shukla | New Delhi August 2, 2013
The aircraft carrier INS Vikramaditya, formerly the Admiral Gorshkov, expected to join the Indian Navy later this year, is already late by five years and its price has risen three-fold, from $947 million in 2004 to $2.3 billion today.
And, it emerges now that for the next three years or so, Vikramaditya will function without effective defences against anti-ship missiles, a key threat to warships today. For this, the Russians are not to blame; the Israelis are. The futuristic missile defence system supposed to be fitted on the Vikramaditya, called the Long Range Surface to Air Missile (LR-SAM), is also late by at least three years. The LR-SAM is a missile, fired from a warship to shoot down an incoming anti-ship missile at ranges out to 70 kilometres. Israel Aerospace Industries (IAI) is developing the LR-SAM in partnership with the Defence R&D Organisation (DRDO).
On Thursday, the Vice Chief of Naval Staff, Vice Admiral R K Dhowan, said here that Vikramaditya would arrive without a “close in weapons system” (CIWS, pronounced sea-whiz), a ship-borne system to destroy incoming missiles and aircraft.
The navy will fit an AK-630 rapid-fire gun system on the Vikramaditya when it arrives but the more potent LR-SAM will only be fitted during the aircraft carrier’s first refit. That would be at least three years down the line.
Given these continuing delays, the navy’s ageing INS Virat, already half a century old, will continue in service till 2018. INS Vikrant, the aircraft carrier being built at Cochin Shipyard Ltd, is being launched on August 12 but will only enter operational service by end-2018, says Dhowan.
The LR-SAM was to be ready by 2011 for equipping three Indian destroyers that Mazagon Dock Ltd is building in Mumbai under the so-called Project 15A. The delay has held up Project 15A, with INS Kolkata, the first warship in this series, floating in the docks for the past seven years. INS Chennai and INS Kochi, the other two destroyers in Project 15A, are delayed, too.
However, there is light at the end of this tunnel. Business Standard has learnt that a DRDO team is heading for Israel for the first “hot test” of the LR-SAM this month. This will check out the functioning of all the missile systems — detection, propulsion, guidance, command and control — in tandem. While the radar, control and navigation systems were tested last year, this will be the first test of the entire system functioning together.
Says DRDO chief, Avinash Chander, “The crucial part of the test will be the missile’s ability to perform manoeuvres. After this full-configuration test, we will carry out trials next year from a ship. There are always uncertainties when one is developing a system of a technology class that exists nowhere in the world.”
In exclusive briefings at the DRDO’s missile cluster in Hyderabad, Business Standard was told that the Israeli company was developing the front section of the LR-SAM, including the seeker head that guides the missile, the front controller, command electronics and the explosive warhead that destroys the target.
The DRDO has developed the rear section, including the two-pulse rocket motor, the rear controller, the thrust vector control and the folded fins. DRDO scientists and designers have also participated in the Israeli part of the development.
The LR-SAM is made especially deadly by its two-pulse rocket motor. The first pulse propels the missile towards the incoming target, while a ship-borne radar tracks the enemy missile continuously, transmitting course corrections to the LR-SAM. When the LR-SAM is near the target, its seeker locks on to the target, taking on the job of guidance. Simultaneously, the rocket motor fires its second pulse, imparting to the LR-SAM a high velocity which leaves the target with little time to manoeuvre. The LR-SAM has both front and rear steering, which allows it to manoeuvre sharply, remaining locked on to even a twisting and turning target.
Once tested and proven, many LR-SAM components will be built in India. The DRDO says it has developed suppliers within Indian industry, with two vendors developed for each sub-system. For example, Godrej and SEC, a company in Hyderabad, will build the two-pulse rocket motor.
A ground-based version of the LR-SAM is simultaneously being developed for the Indian Air Force, which is desperately short of air defence systems.
http://www.business-standard.com/ar...rogress-in-naval-missiles-113080101197_1.html
thestringshredder
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A few posts earlier included images of the INS Vikramaditya, one of which showed it firing what then was assumed to be a defensive weapon system. A search in that direction turned up nothing. As it turns out, they are actually anti-ship missile decoys being launched from the PK-2 countermeasure system. Loaded from below the deck, the system launches them through the ZiF-121 barrel, mounted on the deck.
PK-2-Infra-Red-IR-Anti-Torpedo-Round-JPGA fixture that also existed on the Vikramaditya's original configuration as an Aircraft-Carrier Cruiser, Admiral Gorshkov, it is said to be capable of launching corresponding decoys, that could deceive either air-borne Anti-Ship Missiles or underwater torpedoes, which it drops into the water from the slide-like arrangement, seen circled in the picture below.
Seen in the picture is the rocket-propelled Anti-Ship Missile decoy. One can verify it by observing the picture below, that shows the decoys in storage, whose cross-section matches that of the launched projectile, especially its nose.
The PK-2 is believed to be capable of launching a variety of decoys ranging from the passive chaff & flare dispensers, to active Radio Frequency [RF] decoys that lure missiles away from the actual physical target by simulating electromagnetic emissions as would be radiated by a comparable or bigger physical target.
Indian efforts towards developing indigenous countermeasure dispensers have resulted in the Mahindra & Mahindra Ltd. developing an anti-torpedo system. The State-owned Ordnance Factory Board [OFB] too has come up with a chaff dispenser, offering protection against Anti-Ship missiles. None, however, claim to be capable of launching active decoys, and are of a more focussed nature, in terms of the nature of protection they each offer, compared to the versatility of decoys that the PK-2 can launch.
The picture, below, shows a clear view of the PK-2's ZiF-21 launcher, mounted on the Vikramaditya, this one being on the fore, starboard side.
Link - http://www.aame.in/2013/07/ins-vikramaditya-testing-its-zif-121.html#more
veekysingh
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good find.
Black Widow
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We opt for CATOBAR though and the Ks will not be suitable for that AC. Nightmare scenario if we have to operate hornets too.
Although a better AEW&C than the Kamov-oko combo is welcome. IF only the US had pursued the S-3 AEW variant.
So you are saying "As we bought MiG29K, which can't operate on CATOBAR Carrier, we made STOBAR Carrier" Its just like saying "I bought Royal enfield bulled not Yamaha R1 because I had Rayban Aviator Glasses"....
CATOBAR would have delayed process. Unlike IAF, IN is realist. If it would have been IAF they would have asked something similar to Nimitz Class carrier.
Being IN realist, they know that its not capable for us to make Nimitz, so they are going step by step
Step 1. STOBAR 42K ton, Diesel Engine carrier.
Step 2: CATOBAR 60 Tonn , Diesel engine carrier
Step 3: CATOBAR (possibly EMALS) , 80 Ton Nuclear power super carrier.
Look how Navy went step by step in Arihant class SSBN
Step 1: Small (4 Tube) Arihant (Sea trial)
Step 2: Little larger Arindham (Under construction)
Step 3: Some thing similar to Akula Size
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