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Indian Navy backs N-LCA Tejas with Rs. 900 crore

Screaming Skull

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Bangalore September 21, 2009,

Talk to navy fighter pilots about their air force counterparts and you cannot miss the message: air force pilots are pussycats… real fighter jocks fly from ships!:D

One of the most breathtaking sights in military aviation is a modern fighter landing on an aircraft carrier deck. Flying in at over 250 km per hour, it must halt within 100 metres, one-tenth the distance available to most land-based fighters. The pilot aims at a cable stretched across the landing area; a tail hook on the fighter’s rear fuselage catches the cable, effectively dragging the aircraft to a halt before it runs out of landing deck, subjecting the pilot to a deceleration 4.5 times the force of gravity.

It is called a THUMP-BASH technique. As the fighter thumps down onto the deck, the pilot bashes forward his throttle, revving up the engines to full power. It seems a crazy thing to do when trying to halt really quickly, but there’s a reason: if the tail hook misses all three arrestor cables, the fighter must have the power and speed to get airborne again before the end of the flight deck.

To hit the arrestor cables accurately, the pilot must descend steeply, hitting the deck twice as hard as his air force counterparts, who enjoy the luxury of levelling out at ground level, descending slowly till the wheels touch the runway.

“An arrested landing on an aircraft carrier is actually a controlled crash,” naval flight instructors invariably warn their cadets.

If it takes a Top Gun pilot to pull off such landings, it takes a superbly engineered aircraft to repeatedly absorb the stresses of these controlled crashes. The naval variant of India’s Tejas Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) is poised to enter this challenging playing field. And its prospects have been boosted by the Indian Navy’s commitment to indigenisation.

Business Standard has learnt that the navy has okayed the placement of an order for six Naval LCAs. At an approximate cost of Rs 150 crore per aircraft, that will provide a Rs 900 crore infusion into the Naval LCA programme.

That investment in the Tejas programme is rooted in the navy’s plan to operate both light and medium fighters off its aircraft carriers. The Naval LCA will supplement the heavier Russian MiG-29K, which has already been ordered from Russia. The Indigenous Aircraft Carrier (IAC), being built at Cochin Shipyard, Kochi, has been designed with a separate aircraft lift and maintenance facilities for the LCA, in addition to facilities for the MiG-29K. That has linked the development of the Naval LCA with the construction of the IAC, which is expected to join the fleet by 2014.

But the LCA programme faces a bottleneck in choosing a new engine. Two uprated engines — the General Electric GE-414 and the Eurojet EJ-200 — are currently being evaluated, but will be supplied only by 2013-14. And only with the new engine will the LCA have the power to get airborne from an aircraft carrier.

P S Subramaniam, the Director of the Aeronautical Development Agency, which coordinates the LCA programme, explains: “We will fly the Naval LCA with the current GE-404 engine to test its flight characteristics, and whether its structural strength is sufficient for aircraft carrier operations. After the LCA is fitted with a new, more powerful engine we will take the next step of operating from an aircraft carrier.”

Meanwhile, a major shore-based test facility is coming up at INS Hansa, in Goa, which replicates an aircraft carrier deck on ground, complete with arrested recovery and a ski jump for take off. This facility, which is expected to be operational by October 2011, will be used for certifying the Naval LCA before actually flying off an aircraft carrier. This will also be used for pilots’ training and for training maintenance crews.

Navy backs Tejas with Rs 900 cr
 
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TEJAS: India’s Continued Embarassment
October 30, 2009

A lot can be achieved in two and a half decades. For an individual, its roughly one-third of the average lifespan. For a nation, its enough time for an entire generation to come through. A nation can be transformed from a marshy swamp into one of the largest economies of the world – as in the case of Singapore.

What did Indian Air Force (IAF) achieve in twenty six years while consuming over $2 billion? the answer to that is Zilch; Zero; Nada; Nothing – except a failed project and a continued embarrassment in the shape ‘Tejas’. Tejas LCA (Light Combat Aircraft, also known as Last Chance Aircraft) has gone many trials and tests and there’s no sign of induction as yet. It has now been announced to enter IAF in 2010.

Pakistan’s own ambitious JF-17 project was launched in partnership with China in 1995. In just eleven years and with just $500 million spent, the JF-17 was flying in Pakistani Airspace on March 23rd 2007 – with the maiden flight having taken place much earlier in 2003.

The Indian Air Force on the other hand has with significant assistance from France, Israel, and the United States worked on the Tejas (meaning Radiant) LCA project for over two decades and the aircraft is no closer to induction. Infact it gets worse; the unit cost of one JF-17 is $15 million dollars, while a Tejas will cost up to $31 million – which is closer to the far advanced Russian Su-30’s starting cost ($33 million). India would be well advised to buy more of the Russian aircraft instead of wasting billions of dollars in trying to produce its own ‘indigenous’ fighter plane.

In 1983, IAF launched a Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) program to replace its flying coffins, the MiG-21’s. Earlier in 1981, a study was conducted by IAF, the ‘Long Term Re-Equipment Plan’, to make plans for a future aircraft that would not only replace MiG-21’s but also be cheaper option to foreign imported planes. The Indian government created an entire agency to manage the LCA Tejas program. Tejas was to be developed by Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL), but Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA) was the managing agency of the program.

To develop Tejas, India sought help from Israel and France. The IAF’s Air Staff Requirement for the LCA would not be finalized until October 1985. So, for the first four years, Indian authorities failed to even come up with personnel list who would work on the project. Initially Indian authorities believed they would be able to do a test flight in 1990, and have Tejas induction ceremony in 1995. You would think that 12 years would be enough to produce a fighter plane – however thanks to India’s utter incompetence, Tejas is still waiting to be inducted into IAF as of October 2009.

In 1990 HAL started work on the technology demonstrators but because of the financial crunch in India, full-scale funding was not authorized until April 1993. First technology demonstrator, TD-1, was rolled out in Nov 1995 and was followed by demonstrator 2 in 1998, but they were kept grounded for several years due to structural concerns and trouble with the development of the flight control system. (Aerospaceweb.org | Aircraft Museum - Tejas / Light Combat Aircraft (LCA)).

The Indian engineers wanted to develop a fly-by-wire system of its own. This is no easy task and requires extensive knowledge of flight control laws and the expensive writing of a considerable amount of software code for the flight control computers, as well as its integration with the avionics and other electronic systems. India tried but failed. With no other option left, India sought help from British Aerospace and Lock Heed Martin for its ‘indigenous’ project, who in turn obliged in 1993.

Until 1998 when India, in an attempt to flex its muscles conducted meaningless nuclear tests which have recently been revealed to have been complete failures, Lockheed Martin was helping India’s failing Tejas project by providing a series of in-flight simulation tests of the integrated flight control software which were conducted on F-16 VISTA until July 1998.

For the Multi-Mode Radar (MMR) of Tejas, India turned to Ericsson, and Ferranti Defense Systems, who make such radars. The Indian engineers disgracefully decided to copy those radars and call it indigenous production. As of 2002, the development of MMR was experiencing major delays and costs escalation. It took India four years just to figure out the problem with the radar. Test results in May 2006 proved that the there was a compatibility issue between radar and the advanced signal processor module. The Indians would be well advised to learn from China – the undisputed champions of reverse engineering – before its own botched and expensive attempts.

India also signed a deal with Rafael of Israel to supply Laser pods, and Sextant of France and Elbit of Israel to supply multi-function displays. Despite all these failures, the Indian authorities still believed they produce the engine on their own. Initially it was decided to equip Tejas with the General Electric F404-GE-F2J3 engine. In 1986, a parallel program was developed to produce an indigenous engine. It was named, Kaveri, but India overconfidence while trying to reverse engineer only managed to ensure the production was slowed because of technical difficulties – followed by the 2004 test of the engine that was a complete failure.

In the end India had to turn to French aircraft company Snecma for technical assistance. The height of India’s false ego and attempts at saving face is evident from them naming the French engine that will be used in Tejas, as Kaveri. On the other hand, the GE engine is still being procured for use in Tejas planes that are going to be produced for induction into IAF. The engine trouble didn’t end there, in 2008 it was announced that Kaveri, is not ready for Tejas, and India announced, in May 2009, a tender for $750 million for more powerful GE engine or Eurojet EJ200 engine. (Airborne, at last)

As a result of all this rambling the unit cost of Tejas has jumped from $21 million to $30 million. The first batch of Tejas is scheduled to be inducted in IAF in 2010, and will be combat ready in 2012 – or so they say. By 2012, PAF will have at least 60 JF-17’s combat ready fully equipped and prepped up.

The JF-17 Thunder – a joint project between Pakistan and China – was riginally designed to be a small and capable lightweight fighter powered by a single engine to reduce costs – the JF-17 was supposed to be a simple and inexpensive solution for replacing large fleets of obsolete types in the air forces of developing countries. The JF-17 evolved into a more advanced fighter during the later stages of development with revised terms of reference by the Pakistan Air Force and the incorporation of more modern features and technologies.

Being simultaneously manufactured in Pakistan and China, ten JF-17’s have already been inducted in PAF. The Pakistan Air Force plans to make the first JF-17 squadron officially operational by the end of 2009.

Apart from smaller Air Forces, Egyptian and Iranian Air forces have confirmed interest in purchasing these aircraft from Pakistan.
The JF-17 Thunder project has been completed in a record period of four years. China National Aviation Corp officially signed the development contract for the FC-1 airplane in 1999. The project initially suffered a setback due to imposition of sanctions in 1999, which hindered acquisition of avionics and weaponry for the aircraft. The avionics had to be delinked from airframe development in 2001. China National Aviation Corp completes the detailed preliminary design in 2001 and in 2002 the company completed the detailed design structure and the system charts.

On 25 August 2003 the “owlet dragon” FC-1 airplane carried on the initial flight. It flew 17 minutes before it returned to the airport.
The aircraft was intended to be a match for the Indian Light Combat Aircraft (LCA), which is (despite all setbacks) still expected to form the backbone of the Indian Air Force in future. There are, however, some features like advanced and futuristic avionics and cost effectiveness that give the JF-17 an edge over the LC – apart from the fact that it is actually ready and being inducted in the Pakistan Air Force, compared to its Indian counterpart which may take many years, if it is ever finished. There are rumors within official circles in India that a proposal to purchase the 60 JF-17 aircrafts from Pakistan was actually drafted before being vetoed by Air Chief Marshal Pradeep Vasant Naik after the attacks in Mumbai.
 
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There are rumors within official circles in India that a proposal to purchase the 60 JF-17 aircrafts from Pakistan was actually drafted before being vetoed by Air Chief Marshal Pradeep Vasant Naik after the attacks in Mumbai.


:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Tears in my eyes .... really!

:pdf:

:partay:
 
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There are rumors within official circles in India that a proposal to purchase the 60 JF-17 aircrafts from Pakistan was actually drafted before being vetoed by Air Chief Marshal Pradeep Vasant Naik after the attacks in Mumbai.

All was acceptable, but This lines makes your entire post Void.
 
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TEJAS: India’s Continued Embarassment
October 30, 2009

Kindly mention the name of perverted author.


A lot can be achieved in two and a half decades. For an individual, its roughly one-third of the average lifespan. For a nation, its enough time for an entire generation to come through. A nation can be transformed from a marshy swamp into one of the largest economies of the world – as in the case of Singapore.

Spare me the ignorance, but that's what india did. Second fastest growing nation on globe in recession, author conveniently forgets to mention.


What did Indian Air Force (IAF) achieve in twenty six years while consuming over $2 billion? the answer to that is Zilch; Zero; Nada; Nothing – except a failed project and a continued embarrassment in the shape ‘Tejas’. Tejas LCA (Light Combat Aircraft, also known as Last Chance Aircraft) has gone many trials and tests and there’s no sign of induction as yet. It has now been announced to enter IAF in 2010.

Name calling, Lost complete credibility

Pakistan’s own ambitious JF-17 project was launched in partnership with China in 1995. In just eleven years and with just $500 million spent, the JF-17 was flying in Pakistani Airspace on March 23rd 2007 – with the maiden flight having taken place much earlier in 2003.

Here we go again, trolls on PDF have better understanding than this retarded chump! I got the feeling that its going to turn into dick measuring contest.
May i ask the author what EXACTLY did pakistan contributed to this ambitious project? India contributed more to MKI version of SU-30 than pakistan to JF-17 period

The Indian Air Force on the other hand has with significant assistance from France, Israel, and the United States worked on the Tejas (meaning Radiant) LCA project for over two decades and the aircraft is no closer to induction. Infact it gets worse; the unit cost of one JF-17 is $15 million dollars, while a Tejas will cost up to $31 million – which is closer to the far advanced Russian Su-30’s starting cost ($33 million). India would be well advised to buy more of the Russian aircraft instead of wasting billions of dollars in trying to produce its own ‘indigenous’ fighter plane.

Ask the author WHAT assistance? Before mouthing off, does author knows that Chinese R&D is reverse engineering. So its cost ISNOT incurred in the plane's actual cost. $15 million DOESNOT include western avionics and Radar which pakistan is planning to buy.

Why the author so pissed about if india is wasting billion's of dollar in this project. I can also advice LOT of economical policies for pakistan but i am afraid it will turn thread into flaming contest.

To develop Tejas, India sought help from Israel and France.

Right, Did author knew that J-10 is based on lsrael levi?


The IAF’s Air Staff Requirement for the LCA would not be finalized until October 1985. So, for the first four years, Indian authorities failed to even come up with personnel list who would work on the project. Initially Indian authorities believed they would be able to do a test flight in 1990, and have Tejas induction ceremony in 1995. You would think that 12 years would be enough to produce a fighter plane – however thanks to India’s utter incompetence, Tejas is still waiting to be inducted into IAF as of October 2009.

Yup, we dont have brilliant scientists having track record of zero failures whilst induction of tonne of them, some of them even supersonic.

In 1990 HAL started work on the technology demonstrators but because of the financial crunch in India, full-scale funding was not authorized until April 1993.(Aerospaceweb.org | Aircraft Museum - Tejas / Light Combat Aircraft (LCA)).

Author himself is saying full scale funding was not released till 1993 as india was virtuall bankrupt in 1991. Then why is he adding 2 decades of R&D?

The Indian engineers wanted to develop a fly-by-wire system of its own. This is no easy task and requires extensive knowledge of flight control laws and the expensive writing of a considerable amount of software code for the flight control computers, as well as its integration with the avionics and other electronic systems. India tried but failed. With no other option left, India sought help from British Aerospace and Lock Heed Martin for its ‘indigenous’ project, who in turn obliged in 1993.Until 1998 when India, in an attempt to flex its muscles conducted meaningless nuclear tests which have recently been revealed to have been complete failures, Lockheed Martin was helping India’s failing Tejas project by providing a series of in-flight simulation tests of the integrated flight control software which were conducted on F-16 VISTA until July 1998.

Now author resorts to worst form of fight known as ****** fight (slang). Let me quote the original article from which author has STOLEN his rhetroic.


Development of a FBW flight control system requires extensive knowledge of flight control laws and the expensive writing of a considerable amount of software code for the flight control computers, as well as its integration with the avionics and other electronic systems. When the LCA programme was launched, FBW was a state-of-the-art technology and such a sensitive one that India could find no nation willing to export it. Therefore, in 1992 the LCA National Control Law (CLAW) team was set up by the National Aeronautics Laboratory to develop India's own version. The CLAW team's scientists and mathematicians were successful in developing their control laws, but could not test them since India did not possess advanced real-time ground simulators at that time. Accordingly, British Aerospace (BAe) and Lockheed Martin were brought in to help in 1993, but the effort required for the Aeronautical Development Establishment to code the control laws into the FCS software proved a much larger job than originally anticipated.

Specific control law problems were tested on BAe's simulators (and on HAL's, once theirs became available). As it was being developed, progressive elements of the coding were checked out on the "Minibird" and "Ironbird" test rigs at the ADE and HAL, respectively. A second series of inflight simulation tests of the integrated flight control software were conducted on the F-16 VISTA (Variable In-flight Stability Test Aircraft) simulator in the U.S. in July 1996, with 33 test flights being carried out. However, Lockheed Martin's involvement was terminated in 1998 as part of an embargo enacted by the U.S. in response to India's second nuclear tests in May of that year.

The NAL's CLAW team eventually managed to successfully complete integration of the flight control laws indigenously, with the FCS software performing flawlessly for over 50 hours of pilot testing on TD-1, resulting in the aircraft being cleared for flight in early 2001. The LCA's maiden flight was made by TD-1 from National Flight Test Center(NFTC), near Bangalore, on 4 January 2001, and its first successful supersonic flight followed on 1 August 2003. TD-2 was scheduled to make its first flight in September 2001, but this was not achieved until 6 June 2002. The Tejas' automatic flight control system (AFCS) has been highly praised by all of its test pilots, one of whom said that he found it easier to take off with the LCA than in a Mirage [2000].[9]

in an attempt to flex its muscles conducted meaningless nuclear tests which have recently been revealed to have been complete failures,

This whining deserves double quote. I can only say is this:

:rofl:



For the Multi-Mode Radar (MMR) of Tejas, India turned to Ericsson, and Ferranti Defense Systems, who make such radars. The Indian engineers disgracefully decided to copy those radars and call it indigenous production. As of 2002, the development of MMR was experiencing major delays and costs escalation. It took India four years just to figure out the problem with the radar. Test results in May 2006 proved that the there was a compatibility issue between radar and the advanced signal processor module. The Indians would be well advised to learn from China – the undisputed champions of reverse engineering – before its own botched and expensive attempts.


:smitten::rofl: On one hand author DISGRACEFULLY accuses india for copying ericsson radar and on the other hand encourages reverse engineering??? LoL, he should have also cursed china for this embarrassment on their part.

Author also took test result of MMR from may 2006 :woot: but conveniently extends development period to 2009


Multi-mode radar (MMR), the primary mission sensor of the Tejas in its air defence role, will be a key determinant of the operational effectiveness of the fighter. This is an X-band, pulse Doppler radar with air-to-air, air-to-ground and air-to-sea modes. Its track-while-scan capability caters to radar functions under multiple target environment. The antenna is a light weight (<5 kg), low profile slotted waveguide array with a multilayer feed network for broadband operation. The salient technical features are: two plane monopulse signals, low side lobe levels and integrated IFF, and GUARD and BITE channels. The heart of MMR is the signal processor, which is built around VLSI-ASICs and i960 processors to meet the functional needs of MMR in different modes of its operation. Its role is to process the radar receiver output, detect and locate targets, create ground map, and provide contour map when selected. Post-detection processor resolves range and Doppler ambiguities and forms plots for subsequent data processor. The special feature of signal processor is its real-time configurability to adapt to requirements depending on selected mode of operation.


India also signed a deal with Rafael of Israel to supply Laser pods, and Sextant of France and Elbit of Israel to supply multi-function displays.

What a blatant lie!

HUD: The Head-up-Display of the LCA is a unit developed by the state-owned CSIO, Chandigarh. The HUD is claimed to be superior to similar systems in the international market. According to Mr. CV M L Narasimham, head of CSIO's Applied Optics division, compared to Israel's HUD, the CSIO equipment is noiseless, silent, and offers a better field of view. It is compact, reliable, non-reflective and designed for high-performance aircraft. It was first put on the PV-2 version of the LCA.


Despite all these failures, the Indian authorities still believed they produce the engine on their own. Initially it was decided to equip Tejas with the General Electric F404-GE-F2J3 engine. In 1986, a parallel program was developed to produce an indigenous engine. It was named, Kaveri, but India overconfidence while trying to reverse engineer only managed to ensure the production was slowed because of technical difficulties – followed by the 2004 test of the engine that was a complete failure.

Not a failure, under test in Russia! Does his a*rse faces the mirror and ask what's under the hood of JF-17. I smell VODKA! Hey wait a minute, what's russian doing in pak-china ambitious project ?:rofl:


In the end India had to turn to French aircraft company Snecma for technical assistance. The height of India’s false ego and attempts at saving face is evident from them naming the French engine that will be used in Tejas, as Kaveri. On the other hand, the GE engine is still being procured for use in Tejas planes that are going to be produced for induction into IAF. The engine trouble didn’t end there, in 2008 it was announced that Kaveri, is not ready for Tejas, and India announced, in May 2009, a tender for $750 million for more powerful GE engine or Eurojet EJ200 engine. (Airborne, at last)

WOW, just wow. deathfromabove, i think your should really rub this sh*tty article on author's face.

As a result of all this rambling the unit cost of Tejas has jumped from $21 million to $30 million. The first batch of Tejas is scheduled to be inducted in IAF in 2010, and will be combat ready in 2012 – or so they say. By 2012, PAF will have at least 60 JF-17’s combat ready fully equipped and prepped up.

hehehe.. 60 by 2012. Ok i am waiting.


The JF-17 Thunder – a joint project between Pakistan and China – was riginally designed to be a small and capable lightweight fighter powered by a single engine to reduce costs – the JF-17 was supposed to be a simple and inexpensive solution for replacing large fleets of obsolete types in the air forces of developing countries. The JF-17 evolved into a more advanced fighter during the later stages of development with revised terms of reference by the Pakistan Air Force and the incorporation of more modern features and technologies.

Again, what and how did PAK contributed? What tech does PAK possesses that Chinese were so EAGER to know ? Using author's own words, the answer to that is Zilch; Zero; Nada- Nothing

Being simultaneously manufactured in Pakistan and China, ten JF-17’s have already been inducted in PAF. The Pakistan Air Force plans to make the first JF-17 squadron officially operational by the end of 2009.

Nope mate, those are just production lines!

Apart from smaller Air Forces, Egyptian and Iranian Air forces have confirmed interest in purchasing these aircraft from Pakistan.

We will see about that. One nation is isolated and banned for making nuclear weapons and other doesnot faces imminent threat!


The JF-17 Thunder project has been completed in a record period of four years. China National Aviation Corp officially signed the development contract for the FC-1 airplane in 1999. The project initially suffered a setback due to imposition of sanctions in 1999, which hindered acquisition of avionics and weaponry for the aircraft. The avionics had to be delinked from airframe development in 2001. China National Aviation Corp completes the detailed preliminary design in 2001 and in 2002 the company completed the detailed design structure and the system charts.

On 25 August 2003 the “owlet dragon” FC-1 airplane carried on the initial flight. It flew 17 minutes before it returned to the airport.
The aircraft was intended to be a match for the Indian Light Combat Aircraft (LCA), which is (despite all setbacks) still expected to form the backbone of the Indian Air Force in future. There are, however, some features like advanced and futuristic avionics and cost effectiveness that give the JF-17 an edge over the LC – apart from the fact that it is actually ready and being inducted in the Pakistan Air Force, compared to its Indian counterpart which may take many years, if it is ever finished. There are rumors within official circles in India that a proposal to purchase the 60 JF-17 aircrafts from Pakistan was actually drafted before being vetoed by Air Chief Marshal Pradeep Vasant Naik after the attacks in Mumbai.

YAWN! I think author suffers from backward complexity and all this chest thumping proved nothing but a palace in the air. He associates and piggy backed pakistan success over reverse engineered machine in china!
Yes we are interested in 60 JF-17 from pakistan, of course the only and patented supplier of aircraft on the globe made by chinese and using russian engine! someone wake him up from his wet deams.:rofl:
 
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wow iam right indians are takeing over on PDF just look at the comments! from one user all you indian should stop acting like lions on your key bords and act cashual be nice if one of the members post an irrrelevant article just reply in a polite way not a rude and bad manner way .remember PDF is a very well know site and no one likes trollers. regards!
 
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wow iam right indians are takeing over on PDF just look at the comments! from one user all you indian should stop acting like lions on your key bords and act cashual be nice if one of the members post an irrrelevant article just reply in a polite way not a rude and bad manner way .remember PDF is a very well know site and no one likes trollers. regards!

If you didnot read the post, i was debunking author claims. I never attacked the member.:tup:
 
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