Indian Muslims left behind in Gujarat's growth story

[Rig Vedic]

All said and done, a Muslim child born today in Narendra Modi's Gujarat will live better than one born in Pakistan.

 

[below_freezing]

But a child born in India is less likely to be literate than one born in Zimbabwe. Many Indians look down on Zimbabwe, but that's a true shame. In many ways, Zimbabwe's citizens live far better than those in India.

Education in Zimbabwe - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[notsuperstitious]

But a child born in India is less likely to be literate than one born in Zimbabwe. Many Indians look down on Zimbabwe, but that's a true shame. In many ways, Zimbabwe's citizens live far better than those in India.

Education in Zimbabwe - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Nice one, you can post it when indians worry abt the state of education in zimabwe. here, its nor relevant. Thank you.

 

[Developereo]

If there has been any hint of discrimination as alleged, then it would have been the Congress that is the first to make it a big issue.

The point being made was the issue of state-sponsored discrimination -- the same state that stood by as census data was used by the police to target Muslims. It took intervention by the federal government (Congress) to thwart the discrimination proposed by the Modi government.

Do I have to remind you that it was you who 'focussed' on the condition of Muslims vis-a-vis other minorities in your first post. So what I said too is relevant

Our whole discussion is that Muslims in India are not like 'other minorities' due to the historical baggage. How other minorities fare is irrelevant.

And the rest of the article just builds upon it with some numbers thrown here and there pretending as 'statistics'.

You're right.
Everybody is out to get you.
TIME magazine, Sachar Commission report, Tehelka, police officials.

WoW, you just give a interview of a terrorist to satisfy you delusion and you call others sticking their heads under the sand.

You are ignoring 99% of the article and focussing on two or three sentences by a terrorist to discredit TIME magazine.
I can understand, though, since the bulk of the article negates your claims.

 

[Developereo]

From the Sachar Commission report,

http://iamc.com/reports/2006/pmhlc.muslims.pdf

Moreover, the recent trends in enrolments and other educational attainments and
Committee’s interactions with the Muslim Community are adequate to dispel
certain misconceptions and stereotypes with respect to education of Muslims.
These need to be highlighted:

Muslim parents are not averse to modern or mainstream education and to
sending their children to the affordable Government schools. They do not
necessarily prefer to send children to Madarsas. Regular school education that
is available to any other child in India is preferred by Muslims also. A section of
Muslims also prefer education through the English medium, while some others
would like the medium of instruction to be Urdu. The access to government
schools for Muslim children is limited.

Let's see the "blame the victim" crowd come up with some way to twist these findings also...

 

[KS]

Nice one, you can post it when indians worry abt the state of education in zimabwe. here, its nor relevant. Thank you.

No Fateh what he said it is relevant. Your 'IQ' level is not upto his level to see the relevance.

Do you know through their super duper education they earn in Billions and trillions while we earn just measly rupees

 

[KS]

The point being made was the issue of state-sponsored discrimination -- the same state that stood by as census data was used by the police to target Muslims. It took intervention by the federal government (Congress) to thwart the discrimination proposed by the Modi government.

The point is that the report you gave was predicting that the Muslim victims "are" to get a lesser amount whereas in reality it was not as acknowledged by the Congress itself.

If you had a wee bit knowledge about Indian politics you will know what I am saying is true.

Our whole discussion is that Muslims in India are not like 'other minorities' due to the historical baggage. How other minorities fare is irrelevant.

And the whole discussion is average Muslim and Hindu do not fare that differently as to suggest a discrimination. They both fare worse than the other minorities which shows that they themselves are to be blamed for their respective conditions.

You're right.
Everybody is out to get you.

Precisely that is the tone with which you posted this - link

You are ignoring 99% of the article and focussing on two or three sentences by a terrorist to discredit TIME magazine.

The 99% of the article is built upon the opinion of the remaining 1% , the pith of the matter - the thinking of a terrorist.

I can understand, though, since the bulk of the article negates your claims.

I dont have time to negate stupid claims, post something which deals with facts.

 

[merajahmed]

Being an Indian muslim I would like to say that we are having good life not only in Gujarat but also in other parts of our nation. One must remember India is a developing nation, job cannot be guaranteed for everyone. In my hometown of Assam we have a very good life in compare to others. Finally I WILL SAY MUSLIM IN INDIA ARE LIVING A BETTER LIFE THAN MANY MIDDLE EAST NATION OR SAY MANY ISLAMIC NATION.
Instead of searching what is going on to Indian muslim pakistan should see how is the life going there.

 

[KS]

Anyway I dont know why I am replying to you for the same of an interview with a terrorist.

These 0.0001% of the population cant decide anything for the remaining 99.9999% of the Muslims in India who are no different from the other communities in their pursuit for daily bread and a good life for themselves and their family.

 

[EjazR]

Well like I mentioned in the stats posted earlier, Pakistanis have a much lower primary enrolment rate than Gujrati muslims and matriculation rate is also much lower as well.

What discrimination are they facing that they(Pakistanis) are so behind Gujrati muslims in terms of education?

Again, when you compare muslims in the south like Kerala, TN, Karantaka, AP, their educational and income levels will be even higher. On the other hand if you concetrate on Assam, WB or UP muslims then there indicators just as their neighbours would be lower. Religion plays only one sometimes an insignificant role in the overall scheme of things.

What plays more is economic and social class. So mainly Dalit and OBC muslims that comprise the majority of the Muslims have been historically poor and are only now catching up. While Parsi, Jain and upper caste Hindus and even Muslims for that matter have been historically been well of and are so even now. After all the richest self made Muslim Entrepenuear is an Indian Muslim - Azim Premji. He also happened to the most prominent Muslim face in the Tech forums at the Davos Economic Forum this year as well.

Picking and choosing might be satisfying to someone's ego, but the reality is much different.

 

[Roybot]

From the Sachar Commission report,

http://iamc.com/reports/2006/pmhlc.muslims.pdf

Let's see the "blame the victim" crowd come up with some way to twist these findings also...

You do realize that the Sachar committee was formed by the Indian Government. Indian Government=Majority Indians. If we weren't sincere about our Muslims why would we form such committees. Incidents like Gujarat are unfortunate, but people need to move on and not be tied down by such incidents. The most our government can do now is make sure that the guilty is punished and ensure that such riots don't happen again.

BTW the Sachar committee also found this ,

Muslims in Gujarat, a state that was ravaged by 2002 Gujarat riots, were indicated to be better of in terms of Education and Economic well being than the national average. Even in terms of employment Gujarat had a better share of muslims in government jobs (5.4%) than compared to states like West Bengal (2.1%) and New Delhi (3.2%).

 

[KS]

Well like I mentioned in the stats posted earlier, Pakistanis have a much lower primary enrolment rate than Gujrati muslims and matriculation rate is also much lower as well.

What discrimination are they facing that they(Pakistanis) are so behind Gujrati muslims in terms of education?

Again, when you compare muslims in the south like Kerala, TN, Karantaka, AP, their educational and income levels will be even higher. On the other hand if you concetrate on Assam, WB or UP muslims then there indicators just as their neighbours would be lower. Religion plays only one sometimes an insignificant role in the overall scheme of things.

What plays more is economic and social class. So mainly Dalit and OBC muslims that comprise the majority of the Muslims have been historically poor and are only now catching up. While Parsi, Jain and upper caste Hindus and even Muslims for that matter have been historically been well of and are so even now. After all the richest self made Muslim Entrepenuear is an Indian Muslim - Azim Premji. He also happened to the most prominent Muslim face in the Tech forums at the Davos Economic Forum this year as well.

Picking and choosing might be satisfying to someone's ego, but the reality is much different.

Well said bro ! Infact it was revealing from the link Fateh posted to see that average household income of the average Muslim family is about 58500 Rs while that of a Hindu is a much closer 61200 Rs.

Compare this to the other communities and you will see both these communities have a lot of development to do onto themselves.

 

[arihant]

The situation with Muslims is not the same as other minorities.
Other minorities are not the target of historical resentment for having ruled over the majority Hindus.
Other religions were not at the center of the bitter and violent birth of modern India.
Other religions are not held hostage to the ongoing issue of Kashmir.
Other religions are not under a perpetual cloud of suspicion because of alleged divided loyalty with India's arch-rival.

As much as Indians here will try to gloss over the issue, the fact remains that other minorities do not face the same discrimination that is levelled against India's Muslims. To suggest otherwise is disingenuous.

This is pretty much wrong. Jains and Buddhist too have been victim of aggressive Hindus. By putting wrong information you are flaming the thread and sentiments of minority.

But what we think (Jain), is that Nation is not going to do anything for us free. We need to take care our self, educate them and if need help come in the community to get the needed help. Although we come in qualification of Minority Act, that provides 1% reservation to us, but still we don't need it. If we educate our self, there should not be problem in achieving height as we do now.

One of the quote from the President of Jain Community said below.

Though the Jains form only 0.42% of the population of India, their contribution to the exchequer by way of income tax is an astounding 24% of the total tax collected.

The reason is very particular, most of the FDI coming from Mauritius from Jains working in England, USA and other countries. Most known Jain surnames are Shah, Mehta, Agarwal and off course Jain.

So, what I say to all my Muslim brother, get your educated although it might be little big costly, but it will improve your mind which will lead to success in India. I also argue them to be more Open, to get access to all facilities.

Some Myths.

1. Situation of Muslim is not better because of lack of openness, education and some sort lack of freedom.
   
2. Jains, Buddist were not target of Hindu Brahmins. If you could gather more information in deep, than it would be better. Jains also wanted to file for claim at Ram Janam Bhoomi as they consider Ram Temple itself was built on 26 Jain Temples. Similar there are hundreds of disputes going on including that of Mt. GIR in Gujarat. If you know Indian History (since your history starts with 1947), than Maurya Empire was Jain Empire. An Brahmin general Pusyamitra Sunga (for Indians, its Senapati) killed Maurya Empire and formed Sunga Dynasty. So, this are all myth in your mind.
   
3. About about other religions are not at the center. This is infact true. We don't indulge much in politics. We have no hope in politics. Neither they gone allow Muslim to earn nor to common Hindu. Only people earning from top would be politicians itself.
   
4. Other religions are not held hostage to the ongoing issue of Kashmir. If you allow Hindus to live in Kashmir, than only other religion could be held hostage. Before 1990 everything was in peace and rest.
   
5. If those half of the muslims would not have been loyal than they would have sit here. So, for your question, you should refer to TWO Nation theory of Jinna.

 

[Developereo]

The point is that the report you gave was predicting that the Muslim victims "are" to get a lesser amount whereas in reality it was not as acknowledged by the Congress itself.

No, the point was to highlight that the discrimination is institutionalized as high up as the Gujarat state government. The compensation proposed by the Modi government valued a Hindu life twice as much as Muslim life.

And the whole discussion is average Muslim and Hindu do not fare that differently as to suggest a discrimination. They both fare worse than the other minorities which shows that they themselves are to be blamed for their respective conditions.

The numbers are skewed because the numbers for average Hindu include the dalits who are similarly disadvantaged to Muslims. Nobody's denying the suffering of the dalits due to caste discrimination.

Precisely that is the tone with which you posted this - link

Wrong.
I posted the reasons why Muslims are different from other minorities in India.
You are ignoring factual statistics provided because you find them uncomfortable.

The 99% of the article is built upon the opinion of the remaining 1% , the pith of the matter - the thinking of a terrorist.

Just shouting "terrorist" and sticking your head in the sand won't make reality go away.

I dont have time to negate stupid claims, post something which deals with facts.

TIME magazine is a reputable magazine. You are ignoring the facts presented in the article because they don't gel with your preconceived prejudices.

"Facts are stupid things" -- Ronald Reagan.
A man after your own heart, no doubt.

 

[KS]

Offtopic but I always thought the Nanda dynasty preceded the Maurya dynasty. Infact the Maurya dynasty was founded by ChandraGupta Maurya after defeating the Nanda Empire

Jains, Buddist were not target of Hindu Brahmins. If you could gather more information in deep, than it would be better. Jains also wanted to file for claim at Ram Janam Bhoomi as they consider Ram Temple itself was built on 26 Jain Temples. Similar there are hundreds of disputes going on including that of Mt. GIR in Gujarat. If you know Indian History (since your history starts with 1947), than Maurya Empire was Jain Empire. An High Cast Hindu (for Indians, its Senapati) killed Maurya Empire and formed Nanda Dynesty. So, this are all myth in your mind.