Indian involvement with anti-state elements in Pakistan

[dabong1]

IPI hanging fire is not because India does not want Pakistan to progress.

It is geopolitics that is prompting the issue!

Unfortunate, but true!

Also, it is not that India will benefit but also Pakistan if there is a thaw in all departments.

India has much to give too. A balance of trade could be organised so that it is not one way!

There has to be PEACE and I am totally against all this talk of war. I have seen too many of them and I know it is all useless. It is only those who have not seen the ravages of war, who are the most belligerent of the people and yet they don't come forward to join the forces and instead act as armchair cyber warriors!

Once all outstanding issues are resloved i am sure we can have peace.
I am against any trade normalization with india until then.

Pakistan already has access to the billion+ chinese market so the carrot of getting access to the billion+ indian market would only be a bonus.

If all the plans for pipelines,ports,rail and road networks from China, central asian republics and Iran can be achieved it puts pakistan in a stronger position.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

Yeh when india does something under pressure from US its geopolitcs when we do its becoming US stoog

Not quite.

Iran has raised the price from what it was agreed. Therefore, it is geopolitics to 'suggest' to Iran to meet the commitments made.

India is not doing Sir that is the problem nor she would go for balance of trade. Bangaldesh is already crying this how can india does with Pakistan.

Bangladesh could turn the table by piping in its gas and oil. which she is not doing! Bangladesh is at a greater advantage if she understands globalisation. Transit facilities fee would be a huge bonanza for Bangladesh! It can't be a one way street for either India or Bangladesh, can it?

agreed sir i dont think so the two governments will go for any war in future.
Even during Kargil stand off the two countries must have realised how costly it was just to feed the two armies camped against each other so you can imagine what an actual war will cost the two nations .

Why all this talk of war? War can solve nothing!

I know you all in the cyberspace. I want to meet you all in real life. Why should I be deprived of this fellow feeling because of history? Asim and I are old 'enemies', but with interaction (inspite of holding different views), I view him as a real friend and so is the case with Neo (of course, never had any problems with him). I also know you to some extent. So why should I be deprived of meeting you all because of some stupid animosity that is not of our creation?

 

[Bull]

How? aha you forgot indian vote against Iran in SC.
indeed you guys have scant memory no wonder.

India wont want to have one more nuke nation near us and hence the vote. Freind or foe, nuke nation is not in our interest.

Go check some of your own writers, specially Praful Bidwai
now dont tell me hez anti-India

Well u said, so the onus is own you.

We did its you indians who are just too much under pressur not coming to the table on the issue.

Well lady, i just said the reason why we are not interested.

haha your own terrorist wont blow the gasline so dont worry and that is the reason if India agrees to this pipline she would be forced to ask Indian-backed terrorist outfit BLA to halt the attacks in Balochistan how can she than sleep well.

But once they break away, thing would be different.

keep on dreaming Bull rather concenrate on ULFA/ Assam/ Nagaland/Bodoland Start an operatiob Blue Star against them

Ok so dont disturb me.

 

[Spring Onion]

Not quite.

Iran has raised the price from what it was agreed. Therefore, it is geopolitics to 'suggest' to Iran to meet the commitments made.?

That is one point sir but you must admit there is biggest share in shap of US pressur.

Bangladesh could turn the table by piping in its gas and oil. which she is not doing! Bangladesh is at a greater advantage if she understands globalisation. Transit facilities fee would be a huge bonanza for Bangladesh! It can't be a one way street for either India or Bangladesh, can it??

Yes i agree but than its BD which is accusing India over FTA and depriving her of allowing more items under the same.

[Why all this talk of war? War can solve nothing!

I know you all in the cyberspace. I want to meet you all in real life. Why should I be deprived of this fellow feeling because of history? Asim and I are old 'enemies', but with interaction (inspite of holding different views), I view him as a real friend and so is the case with Neo (of course, never had any problems with him). I also know you to some extent. So why should I be deprived of meeting you all because of some stupid animosity that is not of our creation?

well sir thats what i m saying i did not say there must be war all i said i dont see any war in future.

Rest i still remember a comment from you waaaaaayyy back when you said you like to send me a Valentine card if there was peace and we could travel to each others country without any fear

Did you remember that im still waiting for the card

BTW im gonna have hindi calsses soon hope to sneak into India some day offcourse thorugh legal visa

BTW be my Guest any time do visit NWRP sir i will carry you to mountain range to show you OBL
apart from joke im seriouse come to NWFP

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

How? aha you forgot indian vote against Iran in SC.
indeed you guys have scant memory no wonder.

Jana,

You must understand international politics. Let superficial indicators not guide your inferences.

Iran and Indian relationship has been good, but not super. Yet, it is better than that with the Sunni Moslem countries for obvious reasons. Iran has to maintain good equations with India and India has to do the same for it is mutually beneficial.

The SC vote is not material and it must have been discussed in house with each other since the vote is immaterial. The US is using India to 'feel' the pulse in Iran as our ministers are visiting Iran inspite of the vote! The same way Kissinger used Pakistan for China.

These politicians are the clever ones and we as normal citizens are left to face the brunt of their clever manipulations.

But then, that is life!

Go check some of your own writers, specially Praful Bidwai
now dont tell me hez anti-India

Praful Bidwai is a prize posterior of a donkey. He is known as Purefool Goodbye in India. It is OK if you like him. Very natural, if you ask me.

We did its you indians who are just too much under pressur not coming to the table on the issue.

Not quite.

They hiked the price very high for our liking.

haha your own terrorist wont blow the gasline so dont worry and that is the reason if India agrees to this pipline she would be forced to ask Indian-backed terrorist outfit BLA to halt the attacks in Balochistan how can she than sleep well.

If terrorists could be manipulated, then Musharraf would not have so much of problems in FATA and NWFP.

keep on dreaming Bull rather concenrate on ULFA/ Assam/ Nagaland/Bodoland

Not a bad idea. I just met three Bodos in my unit and one was an officer!

Start an operatiob Blue Star against them

It is to US' interest to keep the BLA active. I have discussed this many a time with you.

 

[Spring Onion]

Jana,

You must understand international politics. Let superficial indicators not guide your inferences.

The SC vote is not material and it must have been discussed in house with each other since the vote is immaterial. The US is using India to 'feel' the pulse in Iran as our ministers are visiting Iran inspite of the vote! The same way Kissinger used Pakistan for China.

These politicians are the clever ones and we as normal citizens are left to face the brunt of their clever manipulations.

But then, that is life!.

Sir you should accept that in our case to that its international politics.
rest about the vote well the Iranians are themselves complaining about that they had been stabbed in the back by India.

Praful Bidwai is a prize posterior of a donkey. He is known as Purefool Goodbye in India. It is OK if you like him. Very natural, if you ask me..

Oh sir u mean i like a donkey or even posterior of a donkey from India well nahhh my tast is not that bad

Not quite.
They hiked the price very high for our liking.

i think that they had changed the prices after talks.
if we can afford it why not India ?

If terrorists could be manipulated, then Musharraf would not have so much of problems in FATA and NWFP..

yes not when they are not backed by you. in case of BLA well you can

Not a bad idea. I just met three Bodos in my unit and one was an officer!.

Thousands V three good equation sir.
What about ULFA

It is to US' interest to keep the BLA active. I have discussed this many a time with you.

Port has been awarded to Singapoor Co so US concerns should not be much.
But indeed this can not be denied but it also does not mean India is not backing BLA.
India is supplying these terrorists of BLA with arms.
Many are also given shellter by India,
Now India had found another ground in Afghanistan.

BTW four indians and one Jana on the thread
quite enjoyable

 

[blitz]

You mentioned Icecold before and now you pick me out of the crowd and say your coments are for me? Is it an "Evil Yindoo Indian" habit to pick someone out of the crowd and start bullying him unnecessarily or blaming him for being responsible for your misfortunes?

I did not say that we WILL do it as war is'nt something Pakistanis enjoy unlike Indians but I said that if Kashmir is to be liberated it is probably one of the few options available!

1) I thought it was a yes... if the attacks are coordinated well between the PAF and PA and we fight with passion and vigour you never know! Kashmir is valleys and mountains... numbers will not matter that much but the strategic locations will matter. If you think it is so powerful then you are entitled to have your views no matter what my opinion on the selected topic is You base your point on the idea that India is more powerful than Pakistan which is a commonly held belief in India fed by war-mongerers like Bull. I do not think that IA and the IAF are superior to our army! True you have larger numbers but those numbers have not mattered

2) Well, but it would pre-occupy the Indian army enough! If there is such a popular rebellion take my word you will not be able to deal with both problems! You will lose considerable land to Pakistan trying to crush a rebellion in Kashmir! Your resources would be diverted to two fronts! The rag-tag militias preoccupying you guys in Kashmir and the Pakistani army fighting soldiers on the border... true you might crush the rebellion before the our army reaches Srinagar but if there is a rebellion of a such a scale India along with a Pakistani attack it will be too much! Please don't forget how Aksai Chin was lost while you were busy concentrating on us. Also if there is such a great rebellion in Kashmir it might block arms and supplies from getting to soldiers fighting at the fronts as everything has to pass Kashmir to get there.

3) An insurgency of a small scale that is, I would say! I am talking about an absolute revolt against Indian rule! That is what will make the difference. You remember the arms depot catching fire and how 4 or 5 fund-starved Kashmiri groups took responsibility for the attack? That proves what Kashmiri insurgents want to do with Indian rule but it also proves how helpless they are as they do not have funding! Now wonder what might happen if we start providing funds to these insurgents and supplying them with arms and give them means to attack you...

Is something wrong? Did you fall in the ditch and hit your head against something hard again? You are making up stuff again... Well thats another Indian trait... Anyway when did i mention that China will come to aid us? And do we really need China to help us in such a case? If the Kashmiri people are so discontent and they rise up against Indian rule and the Pakistan army and airforce strike India then India will lose much of Kashmir to these enemies! The discontention of Kashmiris is a major disadvantage to India in the case of a war please don't forget that!

First of all, i wanted to respond to you. Icecold was a typo. But boy how you exploited it in order to mock me. Heh good for you, i suppose it made you feel intellectually superior.

As for your responses to other points, oh well what can i say ? Its pointless i suppose. "You can wake up someone who is sleeping, but not someone who is pretending to be asleep".

I was accused by Agnostic Muslim [who by the way is more well read and less biased person than me] in a seperate thread that i do not belong on a discussion board because i do not debate. In order to try and change my ways, i attempted to actually get into a proper debate. But that entire post of yours above is such hogwash that i dont know where to begin. Cherry picking exceptions and generalising them universally, complete lack of information that is open source and can be googled in a second, resorting to cheap shots over typos and mocking aimlessly, ........ bah whats the point.

You win !! I am finally convinced that there is no defeating Pakistan. When i cant defeat a Pakistani on a discussion board, what hope is there for us 'dark yindoos' of defeating the martial Pakistanis on the battle field ? None i say. I surrender

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

That is one point sir but you must admit there is biggest share in shap of US pressur.

It is in India's interest to ensure that the US is kept friendly. Like it or not, with the USSR having given up its ghost, it is the US which rules the waves. Many may not like it in Pakistan, but Musharraf is toeing the US line so that maximum benefit come out for Pakistan. Likewise with India, though we are not in the same league. My personal opinion since the US has become the be all and end all of all international affairs, it is best to use the US to one's best advantage without losing one's independence and sovereignty.

Yes i agree but than its BD which is accusing India over FTA and depriving her of allowing more items under the same.

If BD is unhappy, who can stop them from expressing it. They are an equal partner in the globe. India is not losing out. If BD does not feel that it is to her advantage, it will be wrong of India to impose on BD.

well sir thats what i m saying i did not say there must be war all i said i dont see any war in future.

Then we are talking the same language!

Rest i still remember a comment from you waaaaaayyy back when you said you like to send me a Valentine card if there was peace and we could travel to each others country without any fear

Even without the Valentine Card, I still think you are a nice girl that any father would be proud to have. God Bless you and should you ever come to India, be my family's honoured guest!

Did you remember that im still waiting for the card

The card is not important. My affection for you as your elder is more than adequate. My Blessings are always with you. May you prosper and may you become a name that Pakistan is proud of. That is my wish that I leave God to fulfil.

BTW im gonna have hindi calsses soon hope to sneak into India some day offcourse thorugh legal visa

Always be legal. You don't have to learn Hindi. English and Urdu also works in India!And anyway, Hindi is like Urdu.

BTW be my Guest any time do visit NWRP sir i will carry you to mountain range to show you OBL
apart from joke im seriouse come to NWFP

And given some good friend here, be declared as a RAW agent! You will also be jailed as a collaborator!

Once Musharraf is made a President again, I will ask some bigshot friend to organise my trip. Actually I want to see the beauty of the interior of Northern Area first and those tribes who are the descendants of Alexander!

I have no time for all this animosity. I want to learn of peoples and their culture. This is so fascinating.

 

[Spring Onion]

Even without the Valentine Card, I still think you are a nice girl that any father would be proud to have. God Bless you and should you ever come to India, be my family's honoured guest!

The card is not important. My affection for you as your elder is more than adequate. My Blessings are always with you. May you prosper and may you become a name that Pakistan is proud of. That is my wish that I leave God to fulfil..

I know that thats why i always called you Sir if you had noticed
Yes im trying to come to India lets see when it will be

Always be legal. You don't have to learn Hindi. English and Urdu also works in India!And anyway, Hindi is like Urdu..

i want to learn Hindi thats why. and it is the frist time we had started Hindi classes at Peshawar Univesity in the history i dont know if it is taught eleshwere in Pakistan

And given some good friend here, be declared as a RAW agent! You will also be jailed as a collaborator!.

dont worry im the warrior girl will defend you

Once Musharraf is made a President again, I will ask some bigshot friend to organise my trip. Actually I want to see the beauty of the interior of Northern Area first and those tribes who are the descendants of Alexander!

I have no time for all this animosity. I want to learn of peoples and their culture. This is so fascinating.

when you come do contact me or before coming.
descendants of Alexander are called Kalashs they are in Chitral i will carry you to them and will also some gifts from that land for you a rare cap worn by Kalash women, for your daughter.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

Looking fprward for Musharraf's re-election.

Yes, the Chitral folks.

Thanks.

God Bless you, girl!

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

IPI hanging fire is not because India does not want Pakistan to progress.

It is geopolitics that is prompting the issue!

Unfortunate, but true!

Also, it is not that India will benefit but also Pakistan if there is a thaw in all departments.

India has much to give too. A balance of trade could be organised so that it is not one way!

There has to be PEACE and I am totally against all this talk of war. I have seen too many of them and I know it is all useless. It is only those who have not seen the ravages of war, who are the most belligerent of the people and yet they don't come forward to join the forces and instead act as armchair cyber warriors!

Well, after reading your pleasant exchange with Jana I feel mean for bickering with you over slight dissonances.

The alternate to a lack of normalcy in trade relations does not automatically mean an advocation of war Salim. Whether there is peace or not, the current discrepancies between the two economies necessitate, IMO, an extremely slow move towards full fledged trade. This is not war mongering, its protecting the interests of Pakistanis and Pakistan, your truistic comments about life in the aftermath of peace notwithstanding, In the meantime, let people and cultures intermingle and get to know each other.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

Well, after reading your pleasant exchange with Jana I feel mean for bickering with you over slight dissonances.

The alternate to a lack of normalcy in trade relations does not automatically mean an advocation of war Salim. Whether there is peace or not, the current discrepancies between the two economies necessitate, IMO, an extremely slow move towards full fledged trade. This is not war mongering, its protecting the interests of Pakistanis and Pakistan, your truistic comments about life in the aftermath of peace notwithstanding, In the meantime, let people and cultures intermingle and get to know each other.

I am honoured.

I am a man of Peace even if my profession dealt with war. In fact those who have seen the ravages of war are more keen on Peace!

I have nothing against any nation protecting its interest without resorrting to war. It is but natural.

 

[haviZsultan]

First of all, i wanted to respond to you. Icecold was a typo. But boy how you exploited it in order to mock me. Heh good for you, i suppose it made you feel intellectually superior.

As for your responses to other points, oh well what can i say ? Its pointless i suppose. "You can wake up someone who is sleeping, but not someone who is pretending to be asleep".

I was accused by Agnostic Muslim [who by the way is more well read and less biased person than me] in a seperate thread that i do not belong on a discussion board because i do not debate. In order to try and change my ways, i attempted to actually get into a proper debate. But that entire post of yours above is such hogwash that i dont know where to begin. Cherry picking exceptions and generalising them universally, complete lack of information that is open source and can be googled in a second, resorting to cheap shots over typos and mocking aimlessly, ........ bah whats the point.

May i ask you why you are crying and what is the source of your misery? What was wrong with my post? I replied to your 3 points even though I knew this discussion would go back to where it started from as its habitual for you guys to keep saying the same thing over and over... You said that China would not interfere and I said that I did not dispute this fact! What was wrong with the 3 points I replied to?

So you are trying to tell me that this post of yours is debate? This is how you debate? There was much to debate in my previous post. I gave you a reply to the 3 points and reasons to support them! I dunno why you ignored everything in the post and came here to give me this diatribe. Now all this stuff about "cherry picking" and "hogwash" suggests that you do not want a proper debate! Is'nt that true? Mocking aimlessly? You just handpicked me out of the crowd of Pakistanis that visit this site and mocked me and then you are saying that I am mocking you? Thats haram man... You just said i resort to "cheap shots" and "hogwash"... now i could take that as an example of you mocking me?

I stand by what AM said as he is absolutely right! You don't debate but rather you complain constantly about how the whole world is stacked against you... you simply fool around unlike me... Now you see AM is a person who "carries a head over his shoulders" perhaps even 2 or 3 heads over them according to Asim so that means he speaks the truth and only the truth! My advice to you is you should appreciate AM's posting skills and learn from members such as Muradk and such people...

You win !! I am finally convinced that there is no defeating Pakistan. When i cant defeat a Pakistani on a discussion board, what hope is there for us 'dark yindoos' of defeating the martial Pakistanis on the battle field ? None i say. I surrender

So you are representing all Indians here? Surrendering in the name of India? Now that is wrong...

Woah, "dark yindoos"? Thats a new one... reminds me of World of Warcraft. Dark elves= dark yindoos. I wonder if theres a relationship between the two... so how are the dark yindoos related to the dark elves?

Please expect nothing less of a reply when you post something like this and try to tell me that I am supposed to debate it! Use of steorotypes like "Evil Yindoo India" and "dark yindoos" brings nothing but unwanted attention! Please debate properly rather than picking out any peaceful wondering Pakistani off the site and saying that they are not debating with you and are "mocking you"!

 

[Keysersoze]

Can any further discussion be without the undertone of bickering please........

 

[Bull]

That is one point sir but you must admit there is biggest share in shap of US pressur.

Why was that pressure not seen in other aspets of India's foreign policy.