Indian democracy loses to Chinese efficiency - by 160 votes

[chauism]

The respect for my difference is what makes democracy worth all the flaw.


Thanks

Actually the real difference is that while I respect those rights, I believe those rights should be earned by individuals rather than just be given for free.

 

[adelansari]

Actually the real difference is that while I respect those rights, I believe those rights should be earned by individuals rather than just be given for free.

Good thought, but what happens to the one who is unproductive and has no capacity to earn the right. Isn't his/ her will and wish not important.

 

[adelansari]

@ Chauism.. BTW I loved your signature quote..It is truly inspiring..

Sorry for getting off topic. couldn't resist.

 

[below_freezing]

yes, agreed. nice to know how the real estate market really works. the farmers not accepting compensation is also natural, but this issue is extremely complicated and has to do with not only economy but also education and household registration.

many of the farmers were born in 1950's and 1960's (since most of those born later already went to the cities, or at least local towns). they truly know about nothing other than farming, and they do not have the ability to learn anything else.

there are unskilled labor jobs, but they are for the young, and even the worst educated youth have more education than the old farmers. jobs like taxi driving, street sweeping and bus driving are left to those with residency in the large cities. so they feel trapped, and can't have any way out.

but in the end, they will be moved out. this is not unique to china. in the US, and india, and all over the globe, those who stand in the way of modernization will be pushed down. the mumbai government bulldozed the slums in the end. sad fact of life. all we can do is make sure the sacrifice of those who contributed most to our countries development are not wasted by corruption and immigration.

 

[adelansari]

why r so many indians on this forum??
ye saale paise kama rahe hein humare advertisements se. baad me yahi paise hume maarne k liye kaam aayenge.
i urge all true indians to laeve this forum.
a lot of venom is spewed against us in this forum.
pata nai kaise sah lete hein sab indians
itna sahte hein tabhi to hume chun chun k maarte hein ye porkistani terrorists.

Thanks but No Thanks.

A lot of us are here to bridge the gap. Dialogue is the best way forward..
SO if you don't wanna be part of it . Please leave.

Thanks

 

[chauism]

Good thought, but what happens to the one who is unproductive and has no capacity to earn the right. Isn't his/ her will and wish not important.

If they are not contributing anything to the society, then why the society as a whole should be bothered by them other than give humanitarian aids. They should not ask the society and the government for anything other than charity and mercy.

 

[Nomenclature]

I think we should be careful not to overstate the efficiency of the Chinese system. After all it took the Chinese parliament about 15 years to pass a cooperate bankruptcy law because of political in-fightings and special interests. And in many other areas the Chinese central government is much less monolithic than it seems.

But the greater problem with Chinese political system, IMO, is the problem with local governments. Currently local governments don't answer to the population they govern, and they don't really answer to Beijing either ('the sky is high and the emperor is far away'). So a huge number of local governments are little more than thugocracy. So I think there is the need of improving local accountability by elections upto the subprovinical level. The Chinese empires of the past have never solved the local governance problem, and I don't expect the current Chinese government to able to solve it within an authoritarian framework.

 

[whocares]

local governance is horrible in india too, because the internal government mechanisms don't work very well and the media doesn't cover less than sensational events outside metropolitan areas and to a lesser extent state capitals.

 

[chauism]

local governance is horrible in india too, because the internal government mechanisms don't work very well and the media doesn't cover less than sensational events outside metropolitan areas and to a lesser extent state capitals.

Local government is the same everywhere. The less the attention, the more officials are able to do under the radar.

 

[adelansari]

I think we should be careful not to overstate the efficiency of the Chinese system. After all it took the Chinese parliament about 15 years to pass a cooperate bankruptcy law because of political in-fightings and special interests. And in many other areas the Chinese central government is much less monolithic than it seems.

But the greater problem with Chinese political system, IMO, is the problem with local governments. Currently local governments don't answer to the population they govern, and they don't really answer to Beijing either ('the sky is high and the emperor is far away'). So a huge number of local governments are little more than thugocracy. So I think there is the need of improving local accountability by elections upto the subprovinical level. The Chinese empires of the past have never solved the local governance problem, and I don't expect the current Chinese government to able to solve it within an authoritarian framework.

There is a need for a system to inculcate the goods of both the Chinese and Indian system. I guess a lil bit of tweaking of their existing systems would result in that.
India seriously needs to get structured execution of policies and China needs to be more sensitive and accountable towards its people.

Thanks

 

[below_freezing]

I think we should be careful not to overstate the efficiency of the Chinese system. After all it took the Chinese parliament about 15 years to pass a cooperate bankruptcy law because of political in-fightings and special interests. And in many other areas the Chinese central government is much less monolithic than it seems.

But the greater problem with Chinese political system, IMO, is the problem with local governments. Currently local governments don't answer to the population they govern, and they don't really answer to Beijing either ('the sky is high and the emperor is far away'). So a huge number of local governments are little more than thugocracy. So I think there is the need of improving local accountability by elections upto the subprovinical level. The Chinese empires of the past have never solved the local governance problem, and I don't expect the current Chinese government to able to solve it within an authoritarian framework.

山高皇帝远，从古至今一直是中国政府最疾首的问题之一。现在党内的各个派别都把不同的区域当做自己的权利根据地。。。就像你说的，跟黑帮没啥区别。不过，选举也不能解决这种问题。由于乡，镇，县及政府中存在的严重腐败现象，目前的选举制度无法根除那些贪官。他们可以利用已有的钱和权左右选举的结果。就算不会，谁能保证下一批被选的人不会变成贪官？这是所有发展中国家的通病，也绝对不是一个简单的选举就能解决的。看印度就知道了。其实最重要的问题也不是抓贪官，现在这种目标不现实，而是打击贪官与黑帮的结合和控制贪污规模。那样就可以保证贪官不会直接伤害人民的人身安全。不过，应该如何控制，就另当别论了。哎，毛主席在世的时候就没有贪官。。。

 

[Hafizzz]

Interesting that you talk of long run, something that India uses to justify the democratic system & rightfully so. Authoritative one party communist systems no doubt are way more efficient than something like Indian democracy, composing of multiple ethnic & religious groups. Say China overcomes the poverty & has all the necessary infrastructure by 2015. Say India is 15 years behind & achieves the same thing by 2030.

Are 15 years really worth for China for having a very poor record in terms of human rights? When you start comparing the quality of life of citizens in both countries from 2030, see what we have got. Chinese live in a one party authoritative regime, where citizens do not have most of the basic rights like real estate & everything. Indians OTOH, live in an equally developed country, and enjoy the benefits of democracy & human rights.

In short, 15 years is the price which we are paying to get the things done Indian way. And we do believe that it is worth the wait.

Poor human right record ?

Let's check India's human right record :

China v India: where would you rather be arrested?
China v India: where would you rather be arrested? – Telegraph Blogs

WOMEN AND FAMILY IN INDIA AND CHINA
Women and Family in India and China - Bidyut Mohanty

 

[banned]

After experiening the Chinese engineers and labour efficiency, I swear by principles.
India can continue its wishful thinking.

 

[CardSharp]

I think we should be careful not to overstate the efficiency of the Chinese system. After all it took the Chinese parliament about 15 years to pass a cooperate bankruptcy law because of political in-fightings and special interests. And in many other areas the Chinese central government is much less monolithic than it seems.

But the greater problem with Chinese political system, IMO, is the problem with local governments. Currently local governments don't answer to the population they govern, and they don't really answer to Beijing either ('the sky is high and the emperor is far away'). So a huge number of local governments are little more than thugocracy. So I think there is the need of improving local accountability by elections upto the subprovinical level. The Chinese empires of the past have never solved the local governance problem, and I don't expect the current Chinese government to able to solve it within an authoritarian framework.

Again excellent point, the pattern of corruption in officials do seem to follow most corruption at local level but steadily decreases as you go up to city, county, provincial, central government. I think the higher up leaders are probably clean.

I have some insight on these relocation cases since I am in the real estate business.

Real estate in Shanghai, it must have been an exciting couple of month for you with the property bubble.

 

[Hafizzz]

some stuff to read from India :

India in a Nutshell
India Watch :: India - China Comparison

India Chart
India Watch :: India - China Comparison

China - India Comparison
India Watch :: India - China Comparison

India - China Ranking
India Watch :: India - China Comparison