Indian democracy loses to Chinese efficiency - by 160 votes

[chauism]

though i should caution there is no "party". the "party" is 70 million people, bigger than the population of iran, is there a single "iranian" mentality?

my cousin is a party member, he works on a computer assembly line making 3000 per month. 90% of party members have no power at all. one corrupt official steps on the heads of 10 clean ones or powerless party members to get there.

even so, because of the vast amount of officials in china, there's still too much corruption.

how the government actually works and how to get promoted, it's very complex. you can't just be a party member, that alone is worthless. you have to work in an actual government job (and not at a state owned enterprise or even finance, it has to be in administration) and through a combination of technical skill, charisma and backdoor deals, claw your way up slowly.

even most government officials don't know exactly how to get promoted. its a combination of higher level voting, personal ability, connections, money and public opinion. this is why americans just call it authoritarian, since they don't care about the real factors involved.

Yes, indeed wrong wording there, let me rephrase it. The top leadership should get rid of their paranoia mentality.

 

[Super Falcon]

welll china rules the world now good to seee and common people like them

 

[adelansari]

Well Better being Messy than being bulldozed off when asking for one's rights.

Your perceptions are different then mine, your wants and needs are different then mine, You want to shape your country differently then how I want, thats the essence of democracy and fulfilling every one's wish and need or atleast trying to is what the idea of democracy is.
I may not want to do what the govt wants me to.
A farmare despite being poor would want to give a shot at farming again to improve his/her life. he is just happy farming but the party has already decided that he is no good and will not succeed in farming and has to toil as factory labor for an american firm and give up his land and love for farming only because the party has a perception and ambition of how they see their country whoch ofxourse is not similar to what this farmer sees and has for the country. Now agreed that the farmer may be wrong and doesnt have the wisdom to judge what is right and wrong for the country and probably himself. there is no harm in influencing his wish and making him do what is best for both country and him.
but here is the point. how you convince him is important. In a democracy he has the right to argue, question, fight untill he is convinced and want to give up his/ her land and occupation willingly. but in one party rule he is just summoned to give up all what he loves and do what said.

Please note I have not mentioned any country does not want to draw any similarities to any country but just want to state the essence of an ideal democracy, and thats what we are trying to acheive. No matter how bad and messy it looks with all its flaw it still gives me an option to be who I am and fail doing what I love rather then succeed doin what i don't want to.

Thanks

PS: Can some one tell me how to quote some one in a post

 

[lcloo]

Unless the grassroot Chinese understand the value of democracy it is better to have one party China as it is now. I used to worked in a factorty of 5000 people, there are so many "tribes" of cronies in the factory. There were many from the "family" or "home town" tribes dominate a certain department.

Home Town Tribe: The warehouse was dominated by people from certain areas in Guangxi,

Familiy Tribe: the Production planning department as dominated by a family and relatives from Hunan privince.

The heads of department make sure he/she has control on who joined them.

 

[Chinaownseverything]

Well Better being Messy than being bulldozed off when asking for one's rights.

Your perceptions are different then mine, your wants and needs are different then mine, You want to shape your country differently then how I want, thats the essence of democracy and fulfilling every one's wish and need or atleast trying to is what the idea of democracy is.
I may not want to do what the govt wants me to.
A farmare despite being poor would want to give a shot at farming again to improve his/her life. he is just happy farming but the party has already decided that he is no good and will not succeed in farming and has to toil as factory labor for an american firm and give up his land and love for farming only because the party has a perception and ambition of how they see their country whoch ofxourse is not similar to what this farmer sees and has for the country. Now agreed that the farmer may be wrong and doesnt have the wisdom to judge what is right and wrong for the country and probably himself. there is no harm in influencing his wish and making him do what is best for both country and him.
but here is the point. how you convince him is important. In a democracy he has the right to argue, question, fight untill he is convinced and want to give up his/ her land and occupation willingly. but in one party rule he is just summoned to give up all what he loves and do what said.

Please note I have not mentioned any country does not want to draw any similarities to any country but just want to state the essence of an ideal democracy, and thats what we are trying to acheive. No matter how bad and messy it looks with all its flaw it still gives me an option to be who I am and fail doing what I love rather then succeed doin what i don't want to.

Thanks

PS: Can some one tell me how to quote some one in a post

Nobody TRULY does what they want to do, most children do not like going to school, most adults don't like going to work. But where would society be if we let everybody do what they want? Stopping someone who wants to farm from farming is in my eyes the same as stopping someone who wants to kill from killing.

The government only takes away the land of the farmers, if they still want to farm they can move somewhere else. There is no forced occupation in China

 

[parasite]

Freedom is a tricky word it may mislead into thinking irresponsibly...I like similar(not same) word for freedom in HINDI--> SWATANTRATA.......which literally means having your own system....this is what I guess CHINA and INDIA both have and have it by choice.....and both are doing good......

 

[below_freezing]

Nobody TRULY does what they want to do, most children do not like going to school, most adults don't like going to work. But where would society be if we let everybody do what they want? Stopping someone who wants to farm from farming is in my eyes the same as stopping someone who wants to kill from killing.

The government only takes away the land of the farmers, if they still want to farm they can move somewhere else. There is no forced occupation in China

the people who get their land confiscated become disgustingly rich from the government compensations.

the real natives of beijing and shanghai are all millionaires now but they drive taxis or open breakfast shops. why?

when their land got confiscated the government paid them millions of dollars. then they move out slightly from the city center, so in the next round of construction they get bought out again and paid millions of more dollars. it keeps repeating until the natives don't even live within city limits anymore.

the people who get no compensation are the ones who made illegal, unregistered housing since in the past, some people tried to make money from the government by making illegal houses in the path of a planned construction and collect compensation. farmers all get bought out with huge cash payments, i don't pity them at all.

its the farmers that don't get bought out that are poor.

 

[adelansari]

^^ Thats exactlt What I meant. Nobodywould like to do things they are asked to but the manner in which you convince them is important. I hope you will agree to this that, You can send an umwilling child to school by spanking and threating him, what purpose this will serve School will become a liability for him. You can also send him by convincing him/her for the good that school will bring to him/her, this will get him/her more interested.

Thanks

 

[chauism]

Well Better being Messy than being bulldozed off when asking for one's rights.

Your perceptions are different then mine, your wants and needs are different then mine, You want to shape your country differently then how I want, thats the essence of democracy and fulfilling every one's wish and need or atleast trying to is what the idea of democracy is.
I may not want to do what the govt wants me to.
A farmare despite being poor would want to give a shot at farming again to improve his/her life. he is just happy farming but the party has already decided that he is no good and will not succeed in farming and has to toil as factory labor for an american firm and give up his land and love for farming only because the party has a perception and ambition of how they see their country whoch ofxourse is not similar to what this farmer sees and has for the country. Now agreed that the farmer may be wrong and doesnt have the wisdom to judge what is right and wrong for the country and probably himself. there is no harm in influencing his wish and making him do what is best for both country and him.
but here is the point. how you convince him is important. In a democracy he has the right to argue, question, fight untill he is convinced and want to give up his/ her land and occupation willingly. but in one party rule he is just summoned to give up all what he loves and do what said.

Please note I have not mentioned any country does not want to draw any similarities to any country but just want to state the essence of an ideal democracy, and thats what we are trying to acheive. No matter how bad and messy it looks with all its flaw it still gives me an option to be who I am and fail doing what I love rather then succeed doin what i don't want to.

Thanks

PS: Can some one tell me how to quote some one in a post

Of course everyone would have his or her own needs and opinions. However there will not be a universal solution to everyone's problem, government is supposed to act on the best interests of the country and its people even though sometimes some people's need will be neglected. People are selfish beings and for most of time they don't know what is the best for them in a long run. The leader of China can never be the leader of whoever agree with him, he has to be the leader of the whole nation.

If the outcome is the same, then what is the usefulness of those individuals' rights to argue, question and fight. I am not saying there should not be debate about those things, but it should be done by someone who is more professional and educated in those areas than just mobs. Farmers are not lack of representations in the legislative body of China, their needs are represented by people from their own background. Those people get their rights to voice their opinions and file their grievances by proving their capability of maturity in thinking and decision makings.

 

[whocares]

so what checks the government from acting more brutally , repressively or in a high handed manner instead of the largely benevolent manner they've been behaving the last few decades.

 

[adelansari]

I couldn't agree more with Parasite.

India and China both have systems which suits them. They have taken years to form these system. India is still improving upon it and China has mastered it although there is scope for improvement and there is no doubt that they both will succeed. now who will be ahead of each other is irrelevant untill they both do good for their people.

I guess we should leave it at there..

Thanks

 

[Brotherhood]

PS: Can some one tell me how to quote some one in a post

There is a quote button on the bottom of your right corner, click the post you want to reply, hope it help.

 

[adelansari]

There is a quote button on the bottom of your right corner, click the post you want to reply, hope it help.

Thanks.
It worked.

 

[adelansari]

Of course everyone would have his or her own needs and opinions. However there will not be a universal solution to everyone's problem, government is supposed to act on the best interests of the country and its people even though sometimes some people's need will be neglected. People are selfish beings and for most of time they don't know what is the best for them in a long run. The leader of China can never be the leader of whoever agree with him, he has to be the leader of the whole nation.

If the outcome is the same, then what is the usefulness of those individuals' rights to argue, question and fight. I am not saying there should not be debate about those things, but it should be done by someone who is more professional and educated in those areas than just mobs. Farmers are not lack of representations in the legislative body of China, their needs are represented by people from their own background. Those people get their rights to voice their opinions and file their grievances by proving their capability of maturity in thinking and decision makings.

The respect for my difference is what makes democracy worth all the flaw.


Thanks

 

[chauism]

the people who get their land confiscated become disgustingly rich from the government compensations.

the real natives of beijing and shanghai are all millionaires now but they drive taxis or open breakfast shops. why?

when their land got confiscated the government paid them millions of dollars. then they move out slightly from the city center, so in the next round of construction they get bought out again and paid millions of more dollars. it keeps repeating until the natives don't even live within city limits anymore.

the people who get no compensation are the ones who made illegal, unregistered housing since in the past, some people tried to make money from the government by making illegal houses in the path of a planned construction and collect compensation. farmers all get bought out with huge cash payments, i don't pity them at all.

its the farmers that don't get bought out that are poor.

I have some insight on these relocation cases since I am in the real estate business.

In the city, most resistance come from those who are just too greedy, because now the more you resist the better the settlement will be. So, for those people even if they get forcefully removed in the end, they get what they deserved, and people won't pity them at all. The one reason that China's housing price has skyrocketed is because the land cost has skyrocketed. The land cost rise was due to the unreasonable increase in the relocation settlement. 100 people has to pay the bill for 10 people's greed.

In the country side, it is bit different. Even though some of them oppose because of greed, but the rest is because farms to them are not just properties. They are farmers livelihood. Farming is the only thing they know how to make a living. Money and housing compensation means nothing to them. Government has career reeducation program for them, but they are just too stubborn to adopt new lifestyle. I don't know whose side is to blame here, but urbanization is good for the development for the whole nation, and sympathy for those who get in the way of modernization will fade away after couple sighs.

I was in Hainan last week. After meeting with officials from Wenchang, we were discussing the construction of the new satellite launch facility there. They told me that the construction halted because of the relocation process, there was no progress for months. This facility is really important for China's space program, because it is the only one that is able to launch China's first heavy lifting rocket CZ-5. The first launch is scheduled in 2014, and now they worried that there might be delay because of this. Of course there are other launch facilities, but they are all inland. Some of the tunnels through mountains are too small for the CZ-5 rocket to pass through. Wenchang facility is the only one that has a seaport where the rocket can be transported via cargo ship. Now tell me how are those officials going to reason with farmers that it is for their benefit to relocate to some other place.