Indian democracy loses to Chinese efficiency - by 160 votes

[coolstorm]

This is my first time posting. Right after I read this article, I have did a lot of search of this debate online, but to my surprise, even though this debate took place in London, there is no any western new sources that write about this event. Only Indian news outlets are publishing it. So I am just wondering if any of you have any insight to it.

We Chinese had the past AND the future while the Indians did not have the past and will not have the future.

 

[scshqgcm]

Huh !!

Where is the comparison between a democracy & a one party regime ?

no for sure.so prove you can do things better than us,why not?our farmers have their own land and for no tax now,dont say that you dont know there is a lot of maoist in your india.to be a slumdog is their best choice?
honest you have vote i'm happy ,tell me how long it will be solved?
if we have a vote we happy too,but look at iraq,do you know how long it will last,and the US is ready to go now,let them kill each other.
if you r a educated person it's easy to know how many chinese died in the last civil war at least 1 million soldiers and?
a chinese leader Deng xiaoping said =====a cat got a mat is good one,who care white or black

 

[Communist]

no for sure.so prove you can do things better than us,why not?our farmers have their own land and for no tax now,dont say that you dont know there is a lot of maoist in your india.to be a slumdog is their best choice?
honest you have vote i'm happy ,tell me how long it will be solved?
if we have a vote we happy too,but look at iraq,do you know how long it will last,and the US is ready to go now,let them kill each other.
if you r a educated person it's easy to know how many chinese died in the last civil war at least 1 million soldiers and?
a chinese leader Deng xiaoping said =====a cat got a mat is good one,who care white or black

Indians will never understand communist system of ruling. They cannot imagine such indispensable services as health and education should be provided by the govt free of cost to the people. Actually they spent many years under the British who exploited them and they now think exploitation is actually a good democracy. Yes some are better off, as you can see they can afford computer and internet services, but still these people are also exploited somehow, but they do not have the sense and sensibility to understand how they are exploited. And as for the poor Indians, they cannot imagine touching a computer keyboard in life time.

And those who are labeled Maoists in India, are actually the poor tribal people. You cannot find an upper caste Hindu as a Maoist. They brand those weak tribal people Maoist so that they can kill them with legitimacy.

Thats Indian democracy.

 

[scshqgcm]

Indians will never understand communist system of ruling. They cannot imagine such indispensable services as health and education should be provided by the govt free of cost to the people. Actually they spent many years under the British who exploited them and they now think exploitation is actually a good democracy. Yes some are better off, as you can see they can afford computer and internet services, but still these people are also exploited somehow, but they do not have the sense and sensibility to understand how they are exploited. And as for the poor Indians, they cannot imagine touching a computer keyboard in life time.

And those who are labeled Maoists in India, are actually the poor tribal people. You cannot find an upper caste Hindu as a Maoist. They brand those weak tribal people Maoist so that they can kill them with legitimacy.

Thats Indian democracy.

to be honest.i'm not a communist and i dont like some corruption in china too.but i am a realist,i know the problems in china,and i dont think they india have the key anyway.i hope China reform to go ahead ,even a one party system,i dont hope there is another civil war in mainland china.but they indians dont know the problems what china face,they r happy they have,it's good for them.
I just dont like their manner which chinese r idiot and brainwashed.i confess it happened 30years ago ,but now?i think all chinese will feel sorry for them,and we understand that brainwash is not in one way.what the west say they say ,what the west follow they follow,even we common chinese here they still think we r the govermernt cowboy.maybe they dont care how many chinese can speak English,and how many chinese internet user in China.
they dont care.dont u think it's a good news for them and us in this way,and keep them happy in a happy way ,and to be a west followers in Asia there is a lot ,isnt it?
Maoist will keep finghting for a long time for sure,there is a real way to solve it,if luck for india they can unit if unluck they will find 南斯拉夫.
population is the No1 trouble for them for a long run.
China for them is a trouble maker i like it ,they r ours too.
they will tell you that they have a dream that tibet to being a country,we could tell them that it's a joke.
if talk can free somewhere ,why the Us invade Iraq,and made it a bombing hell,trust me ,india could be a superpower if talk can work in their way.
anger is no use for them ,we keep cool it's ok ,ask them ready for war,if this is the last way to finish this bs talk,and they r ready do it now,peace is after war ------see japan and Us ,Russia and Genmany
we and the US,if they think some our land is theirs and we think some land is ours.if you want to talk to get it
be realistic

 

[Communist]

to be honest.i'm not a communist and i dont like some corruption in china too.but i am a realist,i know the problems in china,and i dont think they india have the key anyway.i hope China reform to go ahead ,even a one party system,i dont hope there is another civil war in mainland china.but they indians dont know the problems what china face,they r happy they have,it's good for them.
I just dont like their manner which chinese r idiot and brainwashed.i confess it happened 30years ago ,but now?i think all chinese will feel sorry for them,and we understand that brainwash is not in one way.what the west say they say ,what the west follow they follow,even we common chinese here they still think we r the govermernt cowboy.maybe they dont care how many chinese can speak English,and how many chinese internet user in China.
they dont care.dont u think it's a good news for them and us in this way,and keep them happy in a happy way ,and to be a west followers in Asia there is a lot ,isnt it?
Maoist will keep finghting for a long time for sure,there is a real way to solve it,if luck for india they can unit if unluck they will find 南斯拉夫.
population is the No1 trouble for them for a long run.
China for them is a trouble maker i like it ,they r ours too.
they will tell you that they have a dream that tibet to being a country,we could tell them that it's a joke.
if talk can free somewhere ,why the Us invade Iraq,and made it a bombing hell,trust me ,india could be a superpower if talk can work in their way.
anger is no use for them ,we keep cool it's ok ,ask them ready for war,if this is the last way to finish this bs talk,and they r ready do it now,peace is after war ------see japan and Us ,Russia and Genmany
we and the US,if they think some our land is theirs and we think some land is ours.if you want to talk to get it
be realistic

I am realistic too. But at the same time I am a communist. To be a communist, you first need to be a humanist. Please do not forget the contribution of Mao Tse-tung to China and also to the world. He liberated the Chinese women, he liberated the peasants, he liberated the nation. Now, western capitalists hate Mao. Why? Because they are just racists. Thats the only answer, but they cannot digest it. Look, America is not a nation, its an empire with a sophisticated imperial system. They believe in survival of the fittest theory and manifest destiny. That means weak people should die. And strong people should live. That is seen in the wild life where a lion kills a cow calf.

American democracy is based upon the theory of the survival of the fittest. Its called social Darwinism. There the poor people do not get medical treatment because its too expensive. They do not have moral values and you can see how kids are spoiled by drugs, premature sexual perversion, frequent divorce cases among parents, easy access to firearms etc. Their family system is on the verge of collapse. And family is the lowest unit of a society.

India is another country which is just blindly following the west. Indians feel happy by identifying themselves with the Anglo-Saxons. Yes some racial affinity can be there. Both look like Caucasians. But the western socio-political system is such Indians cannot afford to implement and practice. It will just create a mess.

 

[scshqgcm]

I am realistic too. But at the same time I am a communist. To be a communist, you first need to be a humanist. Please do not forget the contribution of Mao Tse-tung to China and also to the world. He liberated the Chinese women, he liberated the peasants, he liberated the nation. Now, western capitalists hate Mao. Why? Because they are just racists. Thats the only answer, but they cannot digest it. Look, America is not a nation, its an empire with a sophisticated imperial system. They believe in survival of the fittest theory and manifest destiny. That means weak people should die. And strong people should live. That is seen in the wild life where a lion kills a cow calf.

American democracy is based upon the theory of the survival of the fittest. Its called social Darwinism. There the poor people do not get medical treatment because its too expensive. They do not have moral values and you can see how kids are spoiled by drugs, premature sexual perversion, frequent divorce cases among parents, easy access to firearms etc. Their family system is on the verge of collapse. And family is the lowest unit of a society.

India is another country which is just blindly following the west. Indians feel happy by identifying themselves with the Anglo-Saxons. Yes some racial affinity can be there. Both look like Caucasians. But the western socio-political system is such Indians cannot afford to implement and practice. It will just create a mess.

as a common person i dont care if cummunist or not,or what they think we care about what you did or do,about Mao ,it's a complex person to jugde,if he did right i feek happy ,if he did wrong ?-----
this is for historian,or =====
if you said cummunist should be someone ,it's your personal thing,we just see the ruslt to judge,for the last 30years CCP had done a good reform in ecnomic,but we have a lot to change,how about corruption it's a terrible thing for CCP and us ,you know that .
if CCP could control it efficiencily,a lot of chinese will not care what the west say ,do you remmember last year and those oversea chinese who protect the torch?CCP can not live in the history,but here in the 21's,trust me brother,if you want to be a cummunist ,what ahout those not really ones who have no belief of you have,they r the problem for our people
i really wish HU jingtao and Wen jiabao could make it .if chinese do the right thing no one can destroy our country.
they indians maybe surprised what i am talking ------they dont know what we think ,even we call president Hu ------boss Hu 胡总or brother Hu胡哥 on internet,
in their dream i should be shoot at head,and this is what cummunist should do.happy thing right?====ha!
we should keep them in that dream,they will feel afraid of PLA and know nothing about their enemy=====good

 

[Communist]

as a common person i dont care if cummunist or not,or what they think we care about what you did or do,about Mao ,it's a complex person to jugde,if he did right i feek happy ,if he did wrong ?-----
this is for historian,or =====
if you said cummunist should be someone ,it's your personal thing,we just see the ruslt to judge,for the last 30years CCP had done a good reform in ecnomic,but we have a lot to change,how about corruption it's a terrible thing for CCP and us ,you know that .
if CCP could control it efficiencily,a lot of chinese will not care what the west say ,do you remmember last year and those oversea chinese who protect the torch?CCP can not live in the history,but here in the 21's,trust me brother,if you want to be a cummunist ,what ahout those not really ones who have no belief of you have,they r the problem for our people
i really wish HU jingtao and Wen jiabao could make it .if chinese do the right thing no one can destroy our country.
they indians maybe surprised what i am talking ------they dont know what we think ,even we call president Hu ------boss Hu 胡总or brother Hu胡哥 on internet,
in their dream i should be shoot at head,and this is what cummunist should do.happy thing right?====ha!
we should keep them in that dream,they will feel afraid of PLA and know nothing about their enemy=====good

A communist should always be a common man, a representative of the working class, a representative of the proletariat. A capitalist cannot be a communist. Even a bourgeois cannot be a communist.

In a communist state, you serve the society, the community or the nation with your best effort, but you should receive from the society or nation according to your needs. That is the communist spirit. Well, its not so easy. Because human beings are instinctively greedy and selfish. That is why in a immature communist system, if you are a rich person, you have to unconditionally surrender some amount of your wealth for the well being of the poor. In an Islamic ruling system, this conception can be seen also.

And please do not blame the one party communist govt for corruption. Do you think in the western democracy there is no corruption? Do you have any idea how much corrupt the Indian democratic system is? Even Indian judicial system is corrupt. Their defence is corrupt. I can post a number of their own news reports to support my view.

Hu Jintao is a cool guy. Very nice and polite person. But I do not understand why he is paying unnecessary attention to the Indians who are enemy no 1 of China particularly in the BRIC meeting. He will regret if Indians back stab China.

 

[Communist]

@scshqgcm

Brother, all I want to say is that, please do not get brainwashed by the Indians or the Western media.

For the removal of corruption, I think, you need to have a second cultural revolution to change the social psyche. Corruption is basically a social problem.

 

[gambit]

In a communist state, you serve the society, the community or the nation with your best effort, but you should receive from the society or nation according to your needs. That is the communist spirit. Well, its not so easy. Because human beings are instinctively greedy and selfish. That is why in a immature communist system, if you are a rich person, you have to unconditionally surrender some amount of your wealth for the well being of the poor. In an Islamic ruling system, this conception can be seen also.

And to date, the only successful communist 'state' have been the family unit and the monastery.

 

[scshqgcm]

@scshqgcm

Brother, all I want to say is that, please do not get brainwashed by the Indians or the Western media.

For the removal of corruption, I think, you need to have a second cultural revolution to change the social psyche. Corruption is basically a social problem.

do you think i am so easy to brainwashed,i dont care what you or they guys say,i just judge things work or not ,if you want to give a lesson to me ,sorry ,i have read a lot about what a cummunist shoud do or how to think,tell you what i am a 文科生and 大学毕业so dont tel me what is right or wrong?if you want to preach find a member of CCP,you think we need a cultural revolution ,sorry it's a disaster for China for sure,you have your politic idea ,so do it yourself,and help other your cummunists.we just see what you do not you say,we will stand with China.
dont tell me that you dont know corruption is a big problem of China,we just accept it in a certain time and certain --------
i dont think China should be the best one in cleanning corruption,but at least ,we should do better .do u know Hongkong and Singarpore,do u think they have real demoncratic goverment?no ,but they dont have so many corruptional official,it's a goal for China,if CCP dont change the situation now we face,it's a bad news for us.
i dont know who u r and why you r so ---------
i just say what i think now,dont treat me like a baby alright?
i still have friends of CCP,so dont tell me how the cummunist should think or act,i know how they act.
you can't protect China in this way ,as a cummunist you should face it,change it ,and serve sociaty,but i am not ,你就管好自己吧，别装的跟圣贤似的，如果你是从事心理战方面的国家人员，你就别管我们了，我们也不是三岁小孩子，天天上街,学潮的事也跟我们没什么干系，何况都毕业了几年了，要是你是左翼的思想的朋友，想想怎么减少公务员的贪污腐败好得多，现在小马哥已经给大陆的民心有影响了，不过我到是支持先打下台湾来再说，sorry,friends ,i just say something in chinese for a better communication about communist ,i just dont know how to express in English.
but for now i dont see any better the indians did better than us ,even we had a crazy 10years,and we dont see any sign.so dont preach to me ,no matter who you r.
the west will not give us an easy way to grow up,and the corrution in China is the same thing for chinese,man think about it.if Boss Hu 胡总can't control it in a certain way ,i will not give him a high points,we know that .老百姓心中是有杆秤的cummunist

 

[scshqgcm]

And to date, the only successful communist 'state' have been the family unit and the monastery.

just like your god cant save the world but Obama have to say ######## aman,why a president of the US have to do a religion promise to the west god.and even in your dollar ----for god we trust

what is truth ,your god?
something like this dose make any sense ?no
just bs for each other

 

[gambit]

just like your god cant save the world but Obama have to say ######## aman,why a president of the US have to do a religion promise to the west god.and even in your dollar ----for god we trust

what is truth ,your god?
something like this dose make any sense ?no
just bs for each other

Not certain what you are trying to say here but I will explain my thoughts.

The comment on what it meant to be a 'communist' is this...

In a communist state, you serve the society, the community or the nation with your best effort, but you should receive from the society or nation according to your needs. That is the communist spirit.

Marx's original was -- From each according to his ability. To each according to his needs. -- Now that is all fine and dandy provided that such spirit is internalized via self conviction. In other words, in a monastery, every man is equally materially the same and they are selfless because they were persuaded to be so. No one forced a monk into being a monk. Such a man, in the service of his community and ultimately his god, who/whatever this deity is, would devote all his thoughts and energy to the community. His god, who/whatever this deity is, really does not care. In examination of the world's major religions, the common theme in all of them is that of devotion on this life is to the community, then after you croaked, if this deity does exist, he/she will reward you. So in this community, a man should not take from the community any more than what he needs to survive. It does not matter if his labor are more productive than his neighbors', he should cheerfully accept the fact that he is more productive than some but received no more than those who are less productive. So a religious community like a monastery is a successful 'communist' society.

In a family unit, we have a leadership -- mother and father. And a bunch of spoiled brats who are greedy and selfish -- children. Assuming that the leadership is the benevolent kind, it is mom and pop who set the agenda for the family. The leadership will dole out rewards and punishments as it see fit. Their authority is not to be questioned as it is presumed that they know what is best for this little community. So the family unit is also another successful 'communist' society.

With a monastery, we have those who are persuaded into a certain lifestyle. With a family unit, we have those who are considered immature and ignorant.

Communists considered anyone who disagree with them to be socially 'immature' and 'ignorant' but in failing at persuasion to convince others to be like them, they resort to force. The results are bloody as we have seen the world over, notably in Russia and China. In theory, if everyone in a communist society give everything but receive only the bare necessities to survive, there is no need for something silly like an 'economy'. That is why Mao decided to have everyone dress the same way in an effort to brainwash people into believing. That is why communists take things, any things, from people, violently if necessary. I am in the process of closing on a 3000 square ft house with a finished basement that has a theater room, complete with surround sound speaker shelves and wirings. What extravagance...!!! What a waste...!!! So cry the communist in righteous indignation. And Mao would have me executed for being an 'enemy' of the working class.

Truth is that the communist twerp is no different in human nature than I. Just about %99.999 of all the communist leaderships in the world exploited 'the working class' for their own physical creature comfort. If they give %100 of their labor, mental or physical, it is to acquire what capitalists have always acknowledged as the truth about human nature -- to have more than what is needed for survival. As a single man, I have no need for such a large house, but I feel that from my labor, I should be able to get what I want, for now and hopefully for a family in the future. The communist, too lazy to labor at his best effort and out of petty jealously would gladly by force deny me what I have.

In a capitalist society, the currency is money, or f-i-l-t-h-y lucre. In a communist society, as we have seen the world over, the currency is violence. Like how a father might spank a misbehaving child, who misbehave out of ignorance and selfish human nature. That is why communist societies have one-party rule and the instrument of violence -- the military -- is more a guardian against INTERNAL threats, those who are socially 'immature' and 'ignorant', ie. the people, than from external dangers.

===
As a note to the moderator staff, a review of the forum software word filter feature might be necessary. I had to spell out the word 'f-i-l-t-h-y', meaning dirty, because the word was replaced with asterisks as though I am writing profanities.

 

[scshqgcm]

Not certain what you are trying to say here but I will explain my thoughts.

The comment on what it meant to be a 'communist' is this...Marx's original was -- From each according to his ability. To each according to his needs. -- Now that is all fine and dandy provided that such spirit is internalized via self conviction. In other words, in a monastery, every man is equally materially the same and they are selfless because they were persuaded to be so. No one forced a monk into being a monk. Such a man, in the service of his community and ultimately his god, who/whatever this deity is, would devote all his thoughts and energy to the community. His god, who/whatever this deity is, really does not care. In examination of the world's major religions, the common theme in all of them is that of devotion on this life is to the community, then after you croaked, if this deity does exist, he/she will reward you. So in this community, a man should not take from the community any more than what he needs to survive. It does not matter if his labor are more productive than his neighbors', he should cheerfully accept the fact that he is more productive than some but received no more than those who are less productive. So a religious community like a monastery is a successful 'communist' society.

In a family unit, we have a leadership -- mother and father. And a bunch of spoiled brats who are greedy and selfish -- children. Assuming that the leadership is the benevolent kind, it is mom and pop who set the agenda for the family. The leadership will dole out rewards and punishments as it see fit. Their authority is not to be questioned as it is presumed that they know what is best for this little community. So the family unit is also another successful 'communist' society.

With a monastery, we have those who are persuaded into a certain lifestyle. With a family unit, we have those who are considered immature and ignorant.

Communists considered anyone who disagree with them to be socially 'immature' and 'ignorant' but in failing at persuasion to convince others to be like them, they resort to force. The results are bloody as we have seen the world over, notably in Russia and China. In theory, if everyone in a communist society give everything but receive only the bare necessities to survive, there is no need for something silly like an 'economy'. That is why Mao decided to have everyone dress the same way in an effort to brainwash people into believing. That is why communists take things, any things, from people, violently if necessary. I am in the process of closing on a 3000 square ft house with a finished basement that has a theater room, complete with surround sound speaker shelves and wirings. What extravagance...!!! What a waste...!!! So cry the communist in righteous indignation. And Mao would have me executed for being an 'enemy' of the working class.

Truth is that the communist twerp is no different in human nature than I. Just about %99.999 of all the communist leaderships in the world exploited 'the working class' for their own physical creature comfort. If they give %100 of their labor, mental or physical, it is to acquire what capitalists have always acknowledged as the truth about human nature -- to have more than what is needed for survival. As a single man, I have no need for such a large house, but I feel that from my labor, I should be able to get what I want, for now and hopefully for a family in the future. The communist, too lazy to labor at his best effort and out of petty jealously would gladly by force deny me what I have.

In a capitalist society, the currency is money, or f-i-l-t-h-y lucre. In a communist society, as we have seen the world over, the currency is violence. Like how a father might spank a misbehaving child, who misbehave out of ignorance and selfish human nature. That is why communist societies have one-party rule and the instrument of violence -- the military -- is more a guardian against INTERNAL threats, those who are socially 'immature' and 'ignorant', ie. the people, than from external dangers.

===
As a note to the moderator staff, a review of the forum software word filter feature might be necessary. I had to spell out the word 'f-i-l-t-h-y', meaning dirty, because the word was replaced with asterisks as though I am writing profanities.

who care what communist is in China?nobody really care .you said Mao and something about him ,tell that even the CCP confess he made a huge mistake,and in our shcool book.we dont like to be ideal now you cant imagine a culture revolution in China now,if you come to China and ask someone what you think communist for you ,they will suprise about it-------are you kidding me?sir?
times changes ,and China change too,if you want to know china like that way ,sorry you r wasting your time,sir.
to be honest
we r realists now ,if u want to blash China ,i suggest you find some useful topic/and we r like money like you r ,hahah
time is flying and you stay with Marx.you can't hope a person to finish the financial crisis ,he said a lot not just stupid parts,you see ?
if China's president Hu is not a realist ,why we stand together against the financial crisis.
save your time ,man have a nice day

 

[Joe Shearer]

Calm down my friend! There is no need to get all uptight like this. They can say whatever they want here, and steer the conversation any direction they want, there is no rule against it. Doesn't matter how you make them to be, the facts are still facts. Also it doesn't matter who says it, let it be Joe or Michael even if they are the same people.

Dear Sir,

I am more than a little taken aback at the personal nature of some of these comments.

It is not clear what led you to believe that you were addressing an Englishman in responding to me. My location is surely clear enough; it comes from no English shire. It is, in fact, a central location for some of my social sector work in the Assam area, which also happened to be the location of the first polo club set up by the British.

Set up, in fact, by Joe Shearer, a planter, who took an enormous interest in what was till then a Manipuri game. My nickname has been explained clearly in my introduction, if you care to take the trouble to refer to it. Furthermore, in case this has not come to be noticed, I take care to enclose my nickname within quotation marks, so that members know that it is not in fact my real name.

Secondly, it seems to me that some degree of collusion is implied. There is no such collusion. I do not need help from anybody to write mail messages. Nor do I need help to frame my thoughts, if I happen to have a view on any topic. As you will see from my messaging history, I do not post in a prolific manner, only posting where I believe there is something worthwhile to bring to the attention of the other members. Precisely, in fact, why I posted in response to your comment. I believe that at the time you were appreciative.

It is a pity that I lost sight of this thread, and only re-discovered it today by discovering the useful button on top marking our own replies and threads. I would have enjoyed discussing the points you made.

Fourth, I am a member here using the nickname 'Joe Shearer' and none other. It is not clear to me what you intended to convey by saying, "let it be Joe or Michael even if they are the same people". If you would care to elucidate, I would be happy to clear up your doubts. If you prefer, the administrators can clear it up on reference to them. On a facetious note, 'There is no other. Accept no substitute!'

Fifth, since I had no say in the discussion except for that one response to your post, there is not much effort that I put in to "steer the conversation any direction they want". Who is it that you are referring to? And what direction did I seek to steer your conversation in? With one single mail?

Sixth, there were remarks made (not by you) about the archaic style of my English. I am addressing you with this clarification as the other post does not deserve the dignity of an acknowledgement. I am 59 years old. I believe that it is appropriate to write in the style in which I was schooled, and not ape silly young people.

Seventh, I found references (not yours) to the stink of curry racist. I appreciate the reasoned and logical manner in which you have expressed yourself. I beg that you will not associate yourself with such coarse and ugly behaviour.

If there is anything in my messages that you find objectionable, please do not hesitate to refer to these right away. I shall endeavour to satisfy your concerns.

Regards,

'Joe S.'

 

[CardSharp]

self delete