Indian court: We dont want Taliban (sic) in country

[SurvivoR]

No beard, Indian court tells Muslim student
NEW DELHI, April 1 — India’s Supreme Court has rejected the plea of a Muslim student in a Christian missionary school that he be allowed to sport a beard to conform with his religious beliefs.
Justice Markandeya Katju, in delivering the judgment on behalf of a bench of the court two days ago, said: “I am secularist. We should strike a balance between rights and personal beliefs. We cannot overstretch secularism.”
The judge added: “We don’t want Talibans (sic) in the country. “Tomorrow, a girl student may come and say that she wants to wear a burqa.
Can we allow it?”
The Madhya Pradesh High Court had earlier dismissed the student’s plea.
The student maintained that every citizen was entitled to follow his religious principles and that no one should stop him from doing so in a secular country like India.
When his counsel, Mr. B.A. Khan, a Muslim, argued that sporting a beard was an indispensable part of Islam, the judge pointedly noted: “But you don’t sport a beard.”
The court said that if the student was not interested in following the rules of the school, he had the option of joining another institution.
‘You can join some other institution if you do not want to observe the rules. But you can’t ask the school to change the rules for you,’ the judge said.
The country’s Supreme Court is currently hearing a petition by Muslim airman Mohammed Zubair, who is challenging a ‘confidential order’ of the Indian Air Force (IAF) which prohibits Muslim personnel from sporting beards.
The Delhi High Court had earlier dismissed his plea.
The government had, in response to a notice from the court, justified the order, saying it was “issued in the interest of cohesiveness in a combatant force like the IAF and also keeping in view the security implications”.
It also said the policy was “secular in character”.
The Punjab and Haryana High Court last year dismissed a similar petition by two Muslim air force personnel who had sought permission to grow beards while in service. — The Straits Times

No beard, Indian court tells Muslim student

 

[godsavetheworld]

No beard, Indian court tells Muslim student
NEW DELHI, April 1 — India’s Supreme Court has rejected the plea of a Muslim student in a Christian missionary school that he be allowed to sport a beard to conform with his religious beliefs.
Justice Markandeya Katju, in delivering the judgment on behalf of a bench of the court two days ago, said: “I am secularist. We should strike a balance between rights and personal beliefs. We cannot overstretch secularism.”
The judge added: “We don’t want Talibans (sic) in the country. “Tomorrow, a girl student may come and say that she wants to wear a burqa.
Can we allow it?”
The Madhya Pradesh High Court had earlier dismissed the student’s plea.
The student maintained that every citizen was entitled to follow his religious principles and that no one should stop him from doing so in a secular country like India.
When his counsel, Mr. B.A. Khan, a Muslim, argued that sporting a beard was an indispensable part of Islam, the judge pointedly noted: “But you don’t sport a beard.”
The court said that if the student was not interested in following the rules of the school, he had the option of joining another institution.
‘You can join some other institution if you do not want to observe the rules. But you can’t ask the school to change the rules for you,’ the judge said.
The country’s Supreme Court is currently hearing a petition by Muslim airman Mohammed Zubair, who is challenging a ‘confidential order’ of the Indian Air Force (IAF) which prohibits Muslim personnel from sporting beards.
The Delhi High Court had earlier dismissed his plea.
The government had, in response to a notice from the court, justified the order, saying it was “issued in the interest of cohesiveness in a combatant force like the IAF and also keeping in view the security implications”.
It also said the policy was “secular in character”.
The Punjab and Haryana High Court last year dismissed a similar petition by two Muslim air force personnel who had sought permission to grow beards while in service. — The Straits Times

No beard, Indian court tells Muslim student

^^ What wrongwith the decision? Everyone is ment to follow the rules of service whether in the armed forces or otherwise. Its not that Airforce personalle cannot have beards, there are several Sikhs and Muslims and hindus sporting facial hair. But I think what SC has rejected is to go Osama with the beards, now that gives an "unprofessional" look.

In a secular country everyone has the right to persue what they want, but abide by the rules laid down by the estabilishment. Again religion is a belief not a rule.

 

[afriend]

^^ What wrongwith the decision? Everyone is ment to follow the rules of service whether in the armed forces or otherwise. Its not that Airforce personalle cannot have beards, there are several Sikhs and Muslims and hindus sporting facial hair. But I think what SC has rejected is to go Osama with the beards, now that gives an "unprofessional" look.

In a secular country everyone has the right to persue what they want, but abide by the rules laid down by the estabilishment. Again religion is a belief not a rule.

Well thats not the point. Honurable judges choice of words was in a bad taste. He was literaly equating every beard sporting muslims to Taliban..!!! Even i do not agree with his words. Ofcourse there should not be any exception in rules and regulations, and nobody should be allowed to sport a beard in the force except for sikhs where 90% sports beard and turban and is a religious compulsion. But he should have chosen better words in his judgement..!!!

 

[SurvivoR]

What is wrong in this case is what afriend said in his post about the words.
If beared is taken as license to become a Taliban then all the Hindu sadhus, and Sikhs who support a beared would also be called taliban ?

Above all why only Muslim students are subjected to discrimination if keeping a beared was against rules then WHY THIS SCHOOL allowes Sikh students ? who also wear the religious sikh turban.

It seems Indians are picking the wrong concept from some of the hate-mongering western countries.

 

[Torpedo]

The word 'Taliban' was used as 'extreme and blind following of religion'.

This is a good decision. And should be applied everywhere and to everyone.

 

[Screaming Skull]

What is wrong in this case is what afriend said in his post about the words.
If beared is taken as license to become a Taliban then all the Hindu sadhus, and Sikhs who support a beared would also be called taliban ?

Above all why only Muslim students are subjected to discrimination if keeping a beared was against rules then WHY THIS SCHOOL allowes Sikh students ? who also wear the religious sikh turban.

It seems Indians are picking the wrong concept from some of the hate-mongering western countries.

Please don't jump to extreme conclusions about Muslims being discriminated. The constitution of India doesn't stop any one from sporting a beard or a turban. However, each institution in India is governed by its own set of rules and these have to respected. There are several institutions in India that do not pose any restrictions to sporting beard or turbans. But in this case the school had a particular rule that said that beards are not allowed, purely to maintain discipline.

I also agree with the judge when he says that if an individual can't comply with the rules of an institution then he must leave the institution rather than questioning their rules. If a decision favorable to the student had been given then it would have encouraged several students belonging to different communities to challenge the rules of many institutions.

I too agree that the words were in bad taste. But I really can't confirm if the reporter misconstrued the judge's words or they really came from his mouth. If he indeed uttered those words then a litigation may be filed against him for defaming bearded Muslims.

I will go a little off topic here. For all those who beleive that India is discriminating Muslims I would like to bring to your notice that Varun Gandhi has been booked under the 'National Security Act' (NSA) for making anti-Muslim comments. Under this law he can be taken under preventive custody for a year without bail!

This law is only used against terrorists like Ajmal Kasab and others. The fact that Varun Gandhi has been booked under NSA just shows that he is considered equivalent to a terrorist in India for speaking against Muslim interests.

 

[godsavetheworld]

Above all why only Muslim students are subjected to discrimination if keeping a beared was against rules then WHY THIS SCHOOL allowes Sikh students ? who also wear the religious sikh turban.

There is no discrimiation when it comes to sporting beards for hindus/muslims/sikhs. But everyone is supposed to follow a decorum. You cant have Osama like beards, that looks extremely callous and untidy especially in the armed forces where grooming yourself well is extremely important. Most Muslims in India sport stubbles.

In schools/educational institutions even sikhs are asked to keep their beards short and tidy. Turbans look especially neat if well kept. Even Muslims are allowed to work with their caps(pardon me I dont know whats it called)

He was literaly equating every beard sporting muslims to Taliban..!!!

Like it or not, there is a social stigma with beards in all secular countries. Noone has a problem with Muslims practising islam, but noone likes the Taliban like outfit, it resembles extremism. For the same reason, even Sikhs have been asked not to carry their "katar" except during religious ceremonies.And they gladly abide by that. I have several Muslim friends and none like the idea of sporting long beards. Ask them why, and they say "We dont want to look like terrorists".

 

[shukla_swapnil]

What is wrong in this case is what afriend said in his post about the words.
If beared is taken as license to become a Taliban then all the Hindu sadhus, and Sikhs who support a beared would also be called taliban ?

Above all why only Muslim students are subjected to discrimination if keeping a beared was against rules then WHY THIS SCHOOL allowes Sikh students ? who also wear the religious sikh turban.

It seems Indians are picking the wrong concept from some of the hate-mongering western countries.

While discussions about the wording may go on, but the judgement was fair. I'd also like to point out that a saperate group of law (Muslim Personal Law) are applicable to muslims as well which protect their religious responsibilities. As pointed out by judge, Beard is not mandatory in Islam and also the institution setting the rules does not aloow it, so its deemed applicable.

Similarly Sikh women are not required to wear halemts as it against their religious practice.

Although I am all for uniform civil code being applied in India but that would face an extreme opposition for various segments of society in India.

 

[TruthSeeker]

When his counsel, Mr. B.A. Khan, a Muslim, argued that sporting a beard was an indispensable part of Islam, the judge pointedly noted: “But you don’t sport a beard.”

The court said that if the student was not interested in following the rules of the school, he had the option of joining another institution.

I wonder what was the lawyers answer to the judges' observation about how "indispensable" wearing a beard is to Islam? Private institutions should be able to have and enforce dress and grooming standards for their members. It is pure arrogance to join an institution that has a dress/grooming code, and then try to force the institution to change for you, via the courts or violence! Violence is probably coming next. Watch your back Christian missionaries........

 

[notsuperstitious]

I wonder what was the lawyers answer to the judges' observation about how "indispensable" wearing a beard is to Islam? Private institutions should be able to have and enforce dress and grooming standards for their members. It is pure arrogance to join an institution that has a dress/grooming code, and then try to force the institution to change for you, via the courts or violence! Violence is probably coming next. Watch your back Christian missionaries........

Keeping a beard, and then keeping it in a particular way is sunnat, i.e. following the prophets example.

Its not 'farz' or a religious duty like saying prayers, fasting, doing haj etc.

I absolutely agree with the judgement, but not sure abt why the comment abt taliban was made. judges in india are famous for their agressive comments, they don't even spare govts. but this was unnecessary.

 

[jeypore]

The judge added: “We don’t want Talibans (sic) in the country. “Tomorrow, a girl student may come and say that she wants to wear a burqa.

The judge is wrong by using the word Taliban, but I do agree with his judgement. You cannot force a private institution to conform toward your ways, and must abide by there laws or else go somewhere else. Infact, in Minnesota, there where similar incident where the taxi cabs drivers where muslims and they refuse to take any passangers that carried any alcohol. Plain studipity, I say. Then don't drive a cab get into another profession.

 

[SurvivoR]

I wonder what was the lawyers answer to the judges' observation about how "indispensable" wearing a beard is to Islam? Private institutions should be able to have and enforce dress and grooming standards for their members. It is pure arrogance to join an institution that has a dress/grooming code, and then try to force the institution to change for you, via the courts or violence! Violence is probably coming next. Watch your back Christian missionaries........

Nothing Wrong in implementing rules of the school about dress code.


BUT the Problem is that this same SCHOOL allowes Sikh students with beared who also wear the religious sikh turban.

 

[notsuperstitious]

Nothing Wrong in implementing rules of the school about dress code.


BUT the Problem is that this same SCHOOL allowes Sikh students with beared who also wear the religious sikh turban.

Because its farz for a sikh NEVER to cut hair. so if they cut hair he ceases to be sikh.

whereas no such religious dilemma applies to muslims. similarly the school does not allow brahmins to grow hair too.

in any case the school is private and they can make rules. for example lots of convent schools will make u sing christian prayers, if u don't want to - don't join em.

 

[DarkStar]

Because its farz for a sikh NEVER to cut hair. so if they cut hair he ceases to be sikh.

whereas no such religious dilemma applies to muslims. similarly the school does not allow brahmins to grow hair too.

in any case the school is private and they can make rules. for example lots of convent schools will make u sing christian prayers, if u don't want to - don't join em.

I know plenty of clean shaven sikhs, they cut not only their facial, even the hair on their head. They are firm religious sikhs, but chose to cut their hair.

Same with muslims. Not all muslims wear the beard, although a majority believe it is an essential farz to do so.

 

[notsuperstitious]

I know plenty of clean shaven sikhs, they cut not only their facial, even the hair on their head. They are firm religious sikhs, but chose to cut their hair.

Same with muslims. Not all muslims wear the beard, although a majority believe it is an essential farz to do so.

Isn't farz defined or is it a matter of belief? i mean could cutting beard be haram?

For sikhs (a special kind, some oath or something, i forget) the five Ks are mandatory. for such a sikh cutting hair is haram.