Indian Army rejects calls to raise new units based on caste or religion

[ANPP]

and you support your statement with what? ?


Mixed race regiments have been very successful units in the IA like the Guards or the Para regiment.

IMO the IA should scrap the current system since its a reminder of colonialism and anti secular.

These twice are special forces. Guards are also trained for specific role in armor regiment.

 

[notsuperstitious]

The whole idea behind positive discrimination is an exception to merit and qualification.

Why are some otherwise sensible posters blaming the lower castes for this? Surely some higher caste people have been affected negatively, but thats the policy of the state, not of these lower castes. Also what transpired before for millenia was not their choice.

Please differentiate and offer your opposition to policy as much as you want, like the IA has done, but offending lower castes is just silly. AFAIK many marathas are OBC, many jats are OBC and may north easterners are ST - history does not suggest they were exactly averse to the idea of being in a battlefield.

 

[Skull and Bones]

@ Indians you are making a FOOL out of yourself by such comments on an International forum, just showing that though we are united but we have many differences. I does not belong to SC nor ST nor OBC, but i support reservations only because of the conditions the lower castes people live in India - poverty, differences, etc.

Then why not abolish caste based reservation system and give reservations based on poverty. I'm sure no one would have any problem with that, as you said the SC/STs are economically backward.

 

[dronedevta]

No, SC/ST/OBCs, who takes every thing for granted, starting from college admission to promotion in jobs. Doesn't matter how dumbfucks they actually are.

Your posts clearly show your castist mentality .

People who are deprived from centuries and don't have access to the resources which people like you and I enjoy have to be given some special privileges .Although i don't like reservations myself (as i'am in 'general' quota) but the harsh truth is that in corrupt systems like india this is the only viable system that WORKS.

 

[arp2041]

Then why not abolish caste based reservation system and give reservations based on poverty. I'm sure no one would have any problem with that, as you said the SC/STs are economically backward.

Have you heard something as Creamy Layer & Non Creamy Layer??

There is reservations but mainly for Non Creamy Layers.

 

[notsuperstitious]

Then why not abolish caste based reservation system and give reservations based on poverty. I'm sure no one would have any problem with that, as you said the SC/STs are economically backward.

You are 100% logical and correct and demonstrated that you can make the same very logical and fair point in a civil manner.

 

[JanjaWeed]

No need to portray a flowery picture.. let the truth be bare.. It's true that our society is somewhat divided but history is also evident how we all have stood togather as one inspite of it.. we are evolving !!

Maybe that's why that famous slogan still holds good... ''UNITY IN DIVERSITY''

 

[KS]

I really think the IA should stop raising religion/caste based battalions altogether. As the article states, it was started by the British based on their "martial race" theory.

The point the IA is making that units gel together if they are from the same background is understandable. But for that they don't need to belong to the same religion or caste - they just have to be from the same region. So while the IA should continue raising Punjab regiment and Madras regiment and Jammu Kashmir regiment, it should progressively end raising all-Sikh units or all-muslim batallions or all-Jat regiments. In Indian society also, in schools, colleges, tea shops, people gel together if they are from the same region - and not based on the same religion or caste.

So not only should they reject calls for new caste/religion based regiments, but they should start decommissioning regiments and battalion that are based on race or religion or caste. Sikh regiments, Rajput regiment, muslim battalions within certain regiments, should all go away. Make the raising of units purely on the basis of region, to form regimental unity and camaraderie. Operational units on the field should be all India units, composed of battalions from every region (which is already the case).

That is so wrong.

Why are people so insecure that everything has to be forced ?

What's wrong in raising region based or even ethnicity based units ? At the end of the day they all fight towards one goal. Rajputs or Dogras or nagas or Gorkhas..does not matter who they are.They fight for India. So why not provide an environment that maximises their activity rather than club various groups into one regiment for the sake of some "unity" while in reality that may actually reduce their soldierness ?

The golden rule in life is - NEVER EVER TRY TO FIX SOMETHING THAT IS NOT BROKEN.

And to claims about not raising a single caste/race based regiment - what about the Naga regiment ?

Also Jat regiment or Rajput regiment are not "pure" regiments. The Jat regiment is made of Jats, Yadavs and Ahirs while the Rajput regiment as the article says is made of Rajputs and Gujjars.

Barring the Sikh regiment and Sikh LI no other regiment can be considered "pure". Even though inside regiment the battalions are organized to be pure.

I agree with the IA's point that soldiers in most cases do fight for the sake of paltan's izzat and having someone who understands your culture and way of thinking around you makes you do feats that would be impossible in a "secular" or "mixed" environment. Keeping aside all the hoopla about all of us being Indians - the fact of the matter is subconsciously one tends to gel well with and trust another person of his own upbringing than with some other. And in battlefields where trust matters as much as anything else that is a very important factor.

p.s: I dont agree with the SC/ST/OBC demand..that is downright ridiculous for the single reason SC/ST/OBC are not homogenous groups but they are fractured in their own way.

 

[Skull and Bones]

Have you heard something as Creamy Layer & Non Creamy Layer??

There is reservations but mainly for Non Creamy Layers.

I have seen peoples from general class paying bribes to Panchayets to make SC/ST certificate. So the cream isn't going to the class where it is supposed to go.

And if the father gets college education and job because of his caste, which does cause economic upliftment of the family, then what justifies his son to get the same?

 

[KS]

Mixed race regiments have been very successful units in the IA like the Guards or the Para regiment.

No the most sucessful regiments have been the Sikh, the Rajputs, the Kumaonis, Rajputana, Gorkhas,Maratha etc.

And if I am not wrong, even inside the Paras, at the battalion level it is ethnicity based.

IMO the IA should scrap the current system since its a reminder of colonialism and anti secular.

That will be a disaster if it ever happened. Keep the bullshit of political secularism away from the army. The army is the only true secular institution in India as of now.

 

[KRAIT]

Then why not abolish caste based reservation system and give reservations based on poverty. I'm sure no one would have any problem with that, as you said the SC/STs are economically backward.

Come to Rajasthan. SC/ST are blocking other SC/ST/OBC.

Its all about politics.

At least it shouldn't be in Armed Forces.

 

[dronedevta]

GOOD WORK IA.

The most important thing which can help the indian community to grow further is annihilation of caste .Rather than going for india against corruption we have to go for india against castism .


SAY NO MORE TO CASTES.

 

[KS]

People have a very wrong notion about castes mainly because of the propaganda of how evil caste is. There is nothing wrong in having castes. Social stratification or grouping is present in every society in the world. The key is not using that as a vehicle of discrimination. While I have no problem with castes, the problem is having caste based discrimination. While the latter must be abolished, the former need not.



p.s.: I support the raising of a Gujjar regiment which has been a long standing demand of the Gujjar leaders in both Rajasthan and from Jammu and Kashmir. They want to serve the country..so why not provide them that ? Yes, that demand also is based on some egotistical issues of having Jat and Rajput regiment, so the Gujjars too want one. But whats the harm ? Its not like they are going to have caste wars in the army !

 

[anant_s]

Let us stop here brothers, this is getting uglier.
Any army in the world looks for brave men with character, and it is for the political class (especially here in India) to to draw lines to differentiate between them. Once they put up their uniform, they are all Indian soldiers, & that is the underlying truth.
PS: Going by the common wisdom, our netas are interested in something if they see it in terms of votebank. Don't know what (& whose) purpose does it serve by such suggestions

 

[JanjaWeed]

Come to Rajasthan. SC/ST are blocking other SC/ST/OBC.

its all about politics.

At least it shouldn't be in Armed Forces.

I'm not completely conversant with the whole fiasco. But I know there was this constant tussle between Meenas & Gujjars in Rajastan about classification. If I'm not wrong Meenas are opposing Gujjars demand to lower their own class to Scheduled Tribe status. How ironic...? On one hand we are talking about eradicating casteism & on other, we are encouraging the same. Goes to show that through reservation we are promoting this menace to grow instead of curtailing it.