Indian Army Officially confirms Beheading of Soldiers.

[Emmie]

Thank you for getting the point i was trying to make. And the revenge process is always a cycle.

I have to accept that construction on LOC was in violation of ceasefire agreement. It happens occasionally on both sides of border. But the first killing of a soldier on the Pakistani side (a cross border raid as said by PA), is said to be a repurcussion of killing of 3 villagers through shelling by PA last year. And this process had continued till now.

I would like to mention that a 3rd party assessment is useless. I mean any country just wouldnt come out and accept its mistakes to the UN panel or an international panel. Every country hide evidences and India and Pakistan are no exceptions. So i doubt the UN panel can find any evidence from PA on beheading of the slain warrior.

Yesterday or day before yesterday, i saw a paper report quoting an army spokesperson commenting on this issue.
He is Indian Army spokesman Colonel Jagdeep Dahiya,/.

Repercussion after one year! Comeon mate, LOC is place where score is settled very next available moment! If that was the case then I must say Indian side did not respect ongoing peace process. Considering past history of extreme rivalry, the cross border raid by IA meant a clear-cut sabotage! Only viable option to work out all standing issues, including LOC, is through bilateral settlements. Undermining negotiations means you don't want progress on peace.

Colonel Jagdeep Dahiya is spokesperson of MoD, not of IA.

 

[Kompromat]

Should I name the lunatic who started it ? Why do you all want to go to chain of events. There has been incursions. India built FOP. Pakistan started firing. Indian commander had to take actions.

Point is not the firing, point is beheading and taking away the head. We didn't ask anything for any soldier lost earlier.

Because not understanding, the chain of events, leaves room for Indian yellow journalists to target Pakistan with baseless propegenda. Your, own media is now accusing IA of starting it all, rest is being done by International media houses.

 

[Gandhi G in da house]

Had talked about it with one of my close who is serving in special forces. And yes - Mutilation is very well justified in case of operations by special forces and beheading is not altogether new. Will write the crux of my discussion in detail later.

Very good. now that thanks to your friend we know how the Pak army works , please ask your firend and the PA to read the Geneva conventions to which your country is a signatory.

Geneva Convention IV
Article 16, second paragraph, of the 1949 Geneva Convention IV provides: “As far as military considerations allow, each Party to the conflict shall facilitate the steps taken … to protect [the killed] against … ill-treatment

Cairo Declaration on Human Rights in Islam
Article 3(a) of the 1990 Cairo Declaration on Human Rights in Islam provides: “In the event of the use of force and in case of armed conflict … it is prohibited to mutilate dead bodies.”

Violation of the Geneva conventions and Cairo declaration of human rights in Islam goes to prove that your friend and the Pak army that he works for are enemies of not only humanity but for Islam itself as well.

http://www.icrc.org/customary-ihl/eng/docs/v2_rul_rule113

Because not understanding, the chain of events, leaves room for Indian yellow journalists to target Pakistan with baseless propegenda. Your, own media is now accusing IA of starting it all, rest is being done by International media houses.

Doesn't absolve you from the war crime against humanity and Islam.

 

[cloud_9]

Colonel Jagdeep Dahiya is spokesperson of MoD, not of IA.

Yup! the Press releases are released by MoD and are listed on MoD's or PIB's website.I think Army and other services don't have any spokesperson as such

 

[Kompromat]

Lets leave the action/reaction for one moment here -


One question for you - Do you justify beheading?

There is no justification for beheading, if it has took place. IA's account is self conflicting, they should join in and establish an inquiry through the UN, let all culprits be punished.

 

[cloud_9]

Violation of the Geneva conventions and Cairo declaration of human rights in Islam goes to prove that your friend and the Pak army that he works for are enemies of not only humanity but for Islam itself as well.

Customary IHL - Practice Relating to Rule 113. Treatment of the Dead
Doesn't absolve you from the war crime against humanity and Islam.

Eating Carnivorous animals, birds of prey and land animals without external ears (i.e., snakes, reptiles, worms, insects etc.) are Haram in Islam but the Special Forces do eat them.

 

[Sugarcane]

Very good. now that thanks to your friend we know how the Pak army works , please ask your firend and the PA to read the Geneva conventions to which your country is a signatory.

Geneva Convention IV
Article 16, second paragraph, of the 1949 Geneva Convention IV provides: “As far as military considerations allow, each Party to the conflict shall facilitate the steps taken … to protect [the killed] against … ill-treatment

Cairo Declaration on Human Rights in Islam
Article 3(a) of the 1990 Cairo Declaration on Human Rights in Islam provides: “In the event of the use of force and in case of armed conflict … it is prohibited to mutilate dead bodies.”

Violation of the Geneva conventions and Cairo declaration of human rights in Islam goes to prove that your friend and the Pak army that he works for are enemies of not only humanity but for Islam itself as well.

Customary IHL - Practice Relating to Rule 113. Treatment of the Dead

Read post 52 and no need to troll me as i am not in mood.

 

[kurup]

Its not who started a fight but who finish it. So far, Pakistan has finish this conflict. Lets see what else India can do. My guess is nothing much but I might be wrong.

How do you determine finishing a conflict ???

So, I tried to know about latest stand off on LoC, news about buildup, leave cancellation and tension on border and also told him about reports of Indian media (as he don’t follow Indian media) – So, here are main points.

1. Regarding current tensions he told that there was initial exchange of fire on some construction and it’s quite normal on LoC and sometime even installation of few bricks by either party also spark this.
2. Indian forces raided Pakistani’s post and martyred one and one is critically injured. Causality was not simply because of exchange of fire but physical raid.
3. As per norms of LoC – the score has to be settled, and it’s more to do with official stance of both countries than just revenge – As per him, soldiers are trained to restrain. They, don’t go on revenge spree in emotions but keep that in heart and wait for appropriate time – even if they have to wait for months. But, in case of India & Pakistan – they have to settle it soon because no country want to be considered on weaker side on negotiation table – and mostly score is settled on some other location by someone else because the post who killed will be on high alert.
4. Regarding attack on Indian soldiers, he said that he is not aware of as such operation (Maybe he really don’t know, it was not by SSG, or he didn’t want to tell) – However, he said that as per history an operation by SSG happens only if the provocation/damage is too much or other side used their special forces. {My personal opinion is that as raid on Pakistani post was physical and ISPR said “brutally killed” which they don’t use for normal killing was provocative enough to respond with double force to maintain status quo. So my personal opinion is that attack was by Pakistan regular soldiers. And in both incidents attackers were successful in returning back without causality seems like both used special forces or at-least Pakistani side used because these kind of successful operation by regular soldiers are not easy. Or if we go by conspiracy – militant conducted this operation to derail the peace process }
5. Regarding mutilation – His opinion is that in this kind of operations, you have to complete your task and retreat as soon as possible – mostly last ones in patrol are the targets and being too close to target knifes are first weapon of choice and mostly attack is on throat. So, time gap between attack and other notice is usually enough for a commando to reach nearby safer location as per plan and subsequently retreat while companions provide cover fire)
6. Regarding beheading – As his stance was same that he is not aware of it but told that this practice was started by Indian side during Kargil. And it has happened multiple times from both sides. And his POV is that India will be having some other goals which she wants to achieve by highlighting this time. Otherwise, it’s not been told to public in order to maintain respect & dignity of soldier.
7. Regarding buildup – This mobilization exercise is related to “Azam-i-Nau” and it’s not on LoC. However – LoC is on high alert. And as per him there is no extra ordinary movement on Indian side either. He says that after this operation surely the commanding officer will be facing inquiry – because it’s big failure at threat assessment and tactical level and will have negative impact on his career. So, to avoid that failing officer plan something stupid in hurry to settle his failure and put his soldiers’ lives in danger mostly the officer gets changed immediately. So, there are less chances of things getting out of hand.
8. Regarding leaves – That are being cancelled because of internal situation plus govt. has request troops for Islamabad because of planed long march of TuQ.
9. So, he told me not to worry there are no war drums.

But my personal opinion is in current political and law & order situation there are chances that army have to step-in and India don’t want to let this happen by creating sensation on border.

Why do you pakistanis always have to lie ??

All these escalations happened because pakistani troop broke ceasefire and martyred an Indian soldier in Dec .

http://www.defence.pk/forums/indian-defence/226349-1-army-jawan-killed-loc.html

 

[Silverblaze]

Very good. now that thanks to your friend we know how the Pak army works , please ask your firend and the PA to read the Geneva conventions to which your country is a signatory.

Geneva Convention IV
Article 16, second paragraph, of the 1949 Geneva Convention IV provides: “As far as military considerations allow, each Party to the conflict shall facilitate the steps taken … to protect [the killed] against … ill-treatment

Cairo Declaration on Human Rights in Islam
Article 3(a) of the 1990 Cairo Declaration on Human Rights in Islam provides: “In the event of the use of force and in case of armed conflict … it is prohibited to mutilate dead bodies.”

Violation of the Geneva conventions and Cairo declaration of human rights in Islam goes to prove that your friend and the Pak army that he works for are enemies of not only humanity but for Islam itself as well.

Customary IHL - Practice Relating to Rule 113. Treatment of the Dead



Doesn't absolve you from the war crime against humanity and Islam.

Oh! please. mutilation is just inhumane, but indian army has also done it many times. It can never be justified, but to say that only pakistan army does it is just wrong. Read Barkha Dutt's confession of a war reporter and you will realize how compassionate your army personnel were.

Mutilation is just gruesome and cannot be justified, but t does happen at the hands of many armies.

 

[rahul_rao]

pakistan will be screweeeeed sooon

 

[Tridibans]

Its not who started a fight but who finish it. So far, Pakistan has finish this conflict. Lets see what else India can do. My guess is nothing much but I might be wrong.

Are you sure? AFAIK the latest victim on the LOC is a Pakistani kiilled in the crossfire. If you mean Pakistan won't reataliate and back off after losing there soldier, then it may be true. So good finish for IA I would say

 

[RKhan]

Wow I'm surprised at the beheading. It was probably a low rank soldier that did that. Officers are more professional than that.

 

[Alfa-Fighter]

There is no justification for beheading, if it has took place. IA's account is self conflicting, they should join in and establish an inquiry through the UN, let all culprits be punished.

Pak uses all these things to bring UN , US , China into Talks, which India dont want. This is why PAK flared up things as , they got UN post in Jan -13 (for 2 years) and want to bring all party in dispute.

Beheading of solider means , PAK dont longer comply international Law.

During KArgil also, PAK solders were in Plain clothes fighting in Ridges , As per International Law, No Army can fight without proper uniform. (PAK violate law again here)

You want UN to prove Kargil also?

Oh! please. mutilation is just inhumane, but indian army has also done it many times. It can never be justified, but to say that only pakistan army does it is just wrong. Read Barkha Dutt's confession of a war reporter and you will realize how compassionate your army personnel were.

Mutilation is just gruesome and cannot be justified, but t does happen at the hands of many armies.

Yes when you do , india will also do it , after 3 months, Indian army also do An eye for an eye , you will find at least 3 soldiers body militated and two soldier head after 3 months.

 

[Sugarcane]

people's sensitivity to the beheading, if it indeed happened, is due largely to the concern that it might signify a potential for escalation. if it is a practice that, albeit not customary, at least has precedents or was even started by the other side during kargil war and thus constitutes an accepted cost of business for both sides, then (from a foreigner's perspective) i think the topic loses much of its sensationalism and should quietly go away. the body should still be returned to the family to be honored and buried.

Yes - the act is extreme and doesn't make any sense in 21st century and must be stopped. But again - as per official stance of Pak Army, they have denied the incident and asked for UN probe. No soldier at stop makes decision that why not take his head - unless he was ordered to do it and no officer under any normal circumstance will pass this kind of order. And story as narrated it Indian media leaves many question. So, things are not as simple as it looks like. Regarding the act, yes unfortunately both side has done it in past which was initiated by other-side. But nevertheless - I will not support Pak Army to compete in these kind of acts.

How do you determine finishing a conflict ???



Why do you pakistanis always have to lie ??

All these escalations happened because pakistani troop broke ceasefire and martyred an Indian soldier in Dec .

http://www.defence.pk/forums/indian-defence/226349-1-army-jawan-killed-loc.html

Pakistan can't be wrong on every account and India can't be right every time. It's straight and simple, any problem than feel free to log off.

 

[RoYaL~GuJJaR]

What pakistan's are not getting is, its not the killing of soldiers which has outraged everyone here, but the mutilation and Beheading of soldiers is. There were incidents before, down the timeline in which we have crossed LoC and so does pakistanis, these incidents had happened on LOC before too.

But the 'gruesome inhuman behavior' in which the beheading took place is unacceptable hence the outrage in India.