Indian Army Officially confirms Beheading of Soldiers.

[wakapdf]

Pakistan’s industry of denial - The Boston Globe

How Indian propaganda machine works? - thenews.com.pk

There, break even again!

 

[KRAIT]

In another news,

When industrialists protested against the dearth of electric supply to industries, President of Pakistan, Asif Ali Zardari gave them advise which left them mum – “generate your own electricity”

Now do you want to go on war with this country who is ruled by this person.

He will destroy Pakistan himself.

 

[Shardul.....the lion]

So now its official, Pakistan army showed a medieval barbaric unprofessional behavior and beheaded one Indian soldier.

Now what next is the important question?

 

[Rajaraja Chola]

What denialism is there in it? It's very simple, it asks for the evidence! Why would one believe your/our claim without solid grounds and that too after 5 days? This would be 5th or 6th version of the statements.

BTW as if your side had acknowledged unproveked attack of Sunday that resulted in one death and one injury! I am yet to come across to official recognition of the construction work started by Indian side that sparked the tension! So let me ask - are you not in the state of denial?

Buddy, first u had asked for official comments. Now after they are given, u ask, why after all these days/?
Its better late than never. Moreover beheading of soldiers are sensitive issues friend. One need to understand that.

And moreover imagine if a 70 year old can cross the border fooling the troops of India and Pakistan. Makes me wonder what the terrorist can do using the same crossing area.

To prevent infiltration, sometimes bunkers are needed. But they were constructed facing the villages. Not the Pak army post.
The PA started firing first at the bunker and the fire is going on till now.

I believe in honour of a soldier, whicheva nation he belongs. They should be treated with respect and this incident is what that have made us angry

So now its official, Pakistan army showed a medieval barbaric unprofessional behavior and beheaded one Indian soldier.

Now what next is the important question?

Next is we kiiled our own and blaming Pak. U should know a thing or two about conspiracies.

 

[Rajaraja Chola]

Yes - It goes both ways, As i said, i will right shortly about my discussion. Let me clarify he didn't told anything regarding this specific incident but some hints to guess what may have happened.

Pls do clarify when u have furthur info at hand

Anyone??................

Every Army have some medium for contact with media. But i dont think we have something like ISPR. Its within the army structure.
We have a army spokesperson

 

[Sugarcane]

Pls do clarify when u have furthur info at hand

So, I tried to know about latest stand off on LoC, news about buildup, leave cancellation and tension on border and also told him about reports of Indian media (as he don’t follow Indian media) – So, here are main points.

1. Regarding current tensions he told that there was initial exchange of fire on some construction and it’s quite normal on LoC and sometime even installation of few bricks by either party also spark this.
2. Indian forces raided Pakistani’s post and martyred one and one is critically injured. Causality was not simply because of exchange of fire but physical raid.
3. As per norms of LoC – the score has to be settled, and it’s more to do with official stance of both countries than just revenge – As per him, soldiers are trained to restrain. They, don’t go on revenge spree in emotions but keep that in heart and wait for appropriate time – even if they have to wait for months. But, in case of India & Pakistan – they have to settle it soon because no country want to be considered on weaker side on negotiation table – and mostly score is settled on some other location by someone else because the post who killed will be on high alert.
4. Regarding attack on Indian soldiers, he said that he is not aware of as such operation (Maybe he really don’t know, it was not by SSG, or he didn’t want to tell) – However, he said that as per history an operation by SSG happens only if the provocation/damage is too much or other side used their special forces. {My personal opinion is that as raid on Pakistani post was physical and ISPR said “brutally killed” which they don’t use for normal killing was provocative enough to respond with double force to maintain status quo. So my personal opinion is that attack was by Pakistan regular soldiers. And in both incidents attackers were successful in returning back without causality seems like both used special forces or at-least Pakistani side used because these kind of successful operation by regular soldiers are not easy. Or if we go by conspiracy – militant conducted this operation to derail the peace process }
5. Regarding mutilation – His opinion is that in this kind of operations, you have to complete your task and retreat as soon as possible – mostly last ones in patrol are the targets and being too close to target knifes are first weapon of choice and mostly attack is on throat. So, time gap between attack and other notice is usually enough for a commando to reach nearby safer location as per plan and subsequently retreat while companions provide cover fire)
6. Regarding beheading – As his stance was same that he is not aware of it but told that this practice was started by Indian side during Kargil. And it has happened multiple times from both sides. And his POV is that India will be having some other goals which she wants to achieve by highlighting this time. Otherwise, it’s not been told to public in order to maintain respect & dignity of soldier.
7. Regarding buildup – This mobilization exercise is related to “Azam-i-Nau” and it’s not on LoC. However – LoC is on high alert. And as per him there is no extra ordinary movement on Indian side either. He says that after this operation surely the commanding officer will be facing inquiry – because it’s big failure at threat assessment and tactical level and will have negative impact on his career. So, to avoid that failing officer plan something stupid in hurry to settle his failure and put his soldiers’ lives in danger mostly the officer gets changed immediately. So, there are less chances of things getting out of hand.
8. Regarding leaves – That are being cancelled because of internal situation plus govt. has request troops for Islamabad because of planed long march of TuQ.
9. So, he told me not to worry there are no war drums.

But my personal opinion is in current political and law & order situation there are chances that army have to step-in and India don’t want to let this happen by creating sensation on border.

 

[KS]

Families of the behaded should seek,justice from the lunatic commander of the Indian Army, who first built 'illegal' FOP's, then sent 'ghatak' commandos to murder a PA soldier. He is the one responsible for the loss of 4 valuable lives on both sides. He should be court marshalled.

You have a very twisted sense of rationalizing undefendable things.

The rational way to protest an alleged illegal "FOP" is through diplomatic channels. Not killing soldiers. And again, the outrage was not for the killing of soldiers or even crossing into LoC as these things happen quite recently if local LoC stories are to be believed, but their beheading. What part of that you dont understand ? Your soldiers could have still crossed over, ambushed an Indian party and gone back and this much outrage would not be there..but I repeat - this outrage is for the beheading. But I expect that you wont understand this.

As for me personally - I dont think this outrage will do Pakistan any good. they will keep living in denial. The only solution is to pick out a PA post after things have settled down and do the exact same that these Pak soldiers did. Pakistan understands only one language.

Let me know if this goes both ways - if it has been the case for both the forces.

It goes both ways. Yes.

 

[Emmie]

Buddy, first u had asked for official comments. Now after they are given, u ask, why after all these days/?
Its better late than never. Moreover beheading of soldiers are sensitive issues friend. One need to understand that.

And moreover imagine if a 70 year old can cross the border fooling the troops of India and Pakistan. Makes me wonder what the terrorist can do using the same crossing area.

To prevent infiltration, sometimes bunkers are needed. But they were constructed facing the villages. Not the Pak army post.
The PA started firing first at the bunker and the fire is going on till now.

I believe in honour of a soldier, whicheva nation he belongs. They should be treated with respect and this incident is what that have made us angry

I thought I would be reading something on the denialism! Anyways, since it's applicable on both the sides I'd not throw down the gauntlet on this.

If you know that building anything new around LOC is the violation of ceasefire agreement - Regardless of the need of the construction, the construction work was a trenchant violation of the mutual agreement. How would we know the purpose of the construction! Anything that weakens anyone's position on LOC is not tolerated, ask military experts. If Pakistan army had built such a structure IA would have done the same. This act of IA sparked the tension, so it was IA who started the party, further insult to the injury was added when IA attacked and killed one Pakistani jawan, but unfortunately people on your side of the border do not recognize this.

On LOC everything has a reaction, retaliation was due, IA knew it very well. Decapitation for sure is a sensitive issue, I am not denying its sensitivity. What all I am saying is there are doubts that beheading actually occurred, even the northern command had denied it at first. Contradicting statements were circulating in Indian media, sources to the claim were unknown sources. And now this version and that too after so many days! There are many questions, creditability of this statement is not very good.

If Indian soldiers were really decapitated then doubtlessly it was barbaric. But the question is - who's going to ascertain this? Pakistan says let a third party investigate into the incident, let the reality be endorsed.

Every Army have some medium for contact with media. But i dont think we have something like ISPR. Its within the army structure.
We have a army spokesperson

But OP says this statement is from MoD, not from the spokesperson of the army...

 

[iajj]

In another news,

When industrialists protested against the dearth of electric supply to industries, President of Pakistan, Asif Ali Zardari gave them advise which left them mum – “generate your own electricity”

Now do you want to go on war with this country who is ruled by this person.

He will destroy Pakistan himself.

there is something electrically and chemically wrong with zardari's brain, but militarily he is not in actual command and pakistan still has loyal troops and competent officer corps to defend itself, so india may not be able to take advantage of the president's stupidity. so i think it is best if both sides tone down the rhetoric and take a step back

 

[KingMamba]

Still felt the need to make that stupid as comment?

Stupid people deserve whatever reply they get.

 

[iajj]

So, I tried to know about latest stand off on LoC, news about buildup, leave cancellation and tension on border and also told him about reports of Indian media (as he don’t follow Indian media) – So, here are main points.

1. Regarding current tensions he told that there was initial exchange of fire on some construction and it’s quite normal on LoC and sometime even installation of few bricks by either party also spark this.
2. Indian forces raided Pakistani’s post and martyred one and one is critically injured. Causality was not simply because of exchange of fire but physical raid.
3. As per norms of LoC – the score has to be settled, and it’s more to do with official stance of both countries than just revenge – As per him, soldiers are trained to restrain. They, don’t go on revenge spree in emotions but keep that in heart and wait for appropriate time – even if they have to wait for months. But, in case of India & Pakistan – they have to settle it soon because no country want to be considered on weaker side on negotiation table – and mostly score is settled on some other location by someone else because the post who killed will be on high alert.
4. Regarding attack on Indian soldiers, he said that he is not aware of as such operation (Maybe he really don’t know, it was not by SSG, or he didn’t want to tell) – However, he said that as per history an operation by SSG happens only if the provocation/damage is too much or other side used their special forces. {My personal opinion is that as raid on Pakistani post was physical and ISPR said “brutally killed” which they don’t use for normal killing was provocative enough to respond with double force to maintain status quo. So my personal opinion is that attack was by Pakistan regular soldiers. And in both incidents attackers were successful in returning back without causality seems like both used special forces or at-least Pakistani side used because these kind of successful operation by regular soldiers are not easy. Or if we go by conspiracy – militant conducted this operation to derail the peace process }
5. Regarding mutilation – His opinion is that in this kind of operations, you have to complete your task and retreat as soon as possible – mostly last ones in patrol are the targets and being too close to target knifes are first weapon of choice and mostly attack is on throat. So, time gap between attack and other notice is usually enough for a commando to reach nearby safer location as per plan and subsequently retreat while companions provide cover fire)
6. Regarding beheading – As his stance was same that he is not aware of it but told that this practice was started by Indian side during Kargil. And it has happened multiple times from both sides. And his POV is that India will be having some other goals which she wants to achieve by highlighting this time. Otherwise, it’s not been told to public in order to maintain respect & dignity of soldier.
7. Regarding buildup – This mobilization exercise is related to “Azam-i-Nau” and it’s not on LoC. However – LoC is on high alert. And as per him there is no extra ordinary movement on Indian side either. He says that after this operation surely the commanding officer will be facing inquiry – because it’s big failure at threat assessment and tactical level and will have negative impact on his career. So, to avoid that failing officer plan something stupid in hurry to settle his failure and put his soldiers’ lives in danger mostly the officer gets changed immediately. So, there are less chances of things getting out of hand.
8. Regarding leaves – That are being cancelled because of internal situation plus govt. has request troops for Islamabad because of planed long march of TuQ.
9. So, he told me not to worry there are no war drums.

But my personal opinion is in current political and law & order situation there are chances that army have to step-in and India don’t want to let this happen by creating sensation on border.

people's sensitivity to the beheading, if it indeed happened, is due largely to the concern that it might signify a potential for escalation. if it is a practice that, albeit not customary, at least has precedents or was even started by the other side during kargil war and thus constitutes an accepted cost of business for both sides, then (from a foreigner's perspective) i think the topic loses much of its sensationalism and should quietly go away. the body should still be returned to the family to be honored and buried.

 

[Rajaraja Chola]

I thought I would be reading something on the denialism! Anyways, since it's applicable on both the sides I'd not throw down the gauntlet on this.

If you know that building anything new around LOC is the violation of ceasefire agreement - Regardless of the need of the construction, the construction work was a trenchant violation of the mutual agreement. How would we know the purpose of the construction! Anything that weakens anyone's position on LOC is not tolerated, ask military experts. If Pakistan army had built such a structure IA would have done the same. This act of IA sparked the tension, so it was IA who started the party, further insult to the injury was added when IA attacked and killed one Pakistani jawan, but unfortunately people on your side of the border do not recognize this.

On LOC everything has a reaction, retaliation was due, IA knew it very well. Decapitation for sure is a sensitive issue, I am not denying its sensitivity. What all I am saying is there are doubts that beheading actually occurred, even the northern command had denied it at first. Contradicting statements were circulating in Indian media, sources to the claim were unknown sources. And now this version and that too after so many days! There are many questions, creditability of this statement is not very good.

If Indian soldiers were really decapitated then doubtlessly it was barbaric. But the question is - who's going to ascertain this? Pakistan says let a third party investigate into the incident, let the reality be endorsed.



But OP says this statement is from MoD, not from the spokesperson of the army...

Thank you for getting the point i was trying to make. And the revenge process is always a cycle.

I have to accept that construction on LOC was in violation of ceasefire agreement. It happens occasionally on both sides of border. But the first killing of a soldier on the Pakistani side (a cross border raid as said by PA), is said to be a repurcussion of killing of 3 villagers through shelling by PA last year. And this process had continued till now.

I would like to mention that a 3rd party assessment is useless. I mean any country just wouldnt come out and accept its mistakes to the UN panel or an international panel. Every country hide evidences and India and Pakistan are no exceptions. So i doubt the UN panel can find any evidence from PA on beheading of the slain warrior.

Yesterday or day before yesterday, i saw a paper report quoting an army spokesperson commenting on this issue.
He is Indian Army spokesman Colonel Jagdeep Dahiya,/.

 

[faithfulguy]

Its not who started a fight but who finish it. So far, Pakistan has finish this conflict. Lets see what else India can do. My guess is nothing much but I might be wrong.

 

[KS]

Its not who started a fight but who finish it. So far, Pakistan has finish this conflict. Lets see what else India can do. My guess is nothing much but I might be wrong.

Yes you are wrong. Horribly so.

 

[Rajaraja Chola]

Its not who started a fight but who finish it. So far, Pakistan has finish this conflict. Lets see what else India can do. My guess is nothing much but I might be wrong.

really? u are welcome to visit the loc even now and reply me back if u r alive.