Indian Army gets first batch of Sig 716 assault rifles

[Zapper]

The Caracal deal is not stalled, they have some issues with the percentage of commission

From the time Car816 was shortlisted, there was literally no evidence nor statement either from IA or MoD anything on those lines. Unless you have credible proof or your uncle is part of the selection committee, stop speculating random crap

It’s not about frontline troops, its about what their operations are. Different Calibers different uses. So what you are saying is that if a unit moves from the LOC to a Cantonment, they will be changing rifles?

Sig-716 is ofcourse slated for frontline troops which has also been reported by several media outlets including Sig Sauer's official page. I assume the initial 72k ordered will be given to Rashtriya Rifles and their respective Ghatak Platoons deployed in the valley and along LoC

NEWINGTON, N.H., (February 13, 2019) – SIG SAUER, Inc. is pleased to announce the Government of India, Ministry of Defense has officially contracted with SIG SAUER to build and deliver 72,400 SIG716 rifles for its frontline infantry soldiers. The Indian Army, the second largest standing army in the world with more than 1.2 million active troops, is currently undergoing a comprehensive firearms procurement process to advance the capabilities of the Indian Army’s infantrymen.

https://www.sigsauer.com/press-releases/sig-sauer-announces-over-72400-sig-rifles-to-be-deployed-with-indian-army/

The bottom line is that Indian Army really #ucked up with the INSAS and now they are running around like headless chickens

IA primarily trains on the Insas and AK. The recoil of a 7.62 round be it Nato or AK is fairly close so training and acclimatization of the gun wouldn't be an issue. Secondly, Insas has served us long enough and IA isn't running like headless chickens since the Car, Sig & AK deals were formulated long back and there is no hurry to procure any of em. Infact, I don't expect a call to be taken on the AK or CAR deal anytime soon.

But it looks like you just wanna rant outta your blind hatred for India...so be it

 

[bolo]

"Neither is anyone inside our territory nor is any of our post captured" - Indian PM Narender Modi (aka Surrender Modi)

Is Modi telling the truth or lying?

 

[proudindian20]

Recoil seems higher than Insas. Is it because of the different round?

 

[Zapper]

Recoil seems higher than Insas. Is it because of the different round?

Insas uses 5.56 while Sig-716 uses 7.62×51mm NATO round or .308 Winchester

 

[Bilal.]

Insas uses 5.56 while Sig-716 uses 7.62×51mm NATO round or .308 Winchester

I believe the bought the DI version 716i not the short stroke piston Sig716.

 

[Zapper]

I believe the bought the DI version 716i not the short stroke piston Sig716.

IA bought the Sig-716 G2 Patrol as reported by livefistdefence.com who also revealed the first images of the Sig being fired by IA soldiers

https://www.livefistdefence.com/202...rmy-with-their-new-sig716-assault-rifles.html

 

[Bilal.]

IA bought the Sig-716 G2 Patrol as reported by livefistdefence.com who also revealed the first images of the Sig being fired by IA soldiers

View attachment 652057

https://www.livefistdefence.com/202...rmy-with-their-new-sig716-assault-rifles.html

SIG Sauer confirmed that the Indian Army has procured the 7.62x51mm direct impingement 716i Tread, not the short-stroke piston-driven SIG716 G2.

https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog...-army-orders-more-716i-rifles-from-sig-sauer/

Sig 716i Tread (Direct impingement):

Not Sig716g2 patrol (short stroke piston):

 

[Agha Sher]

1.3 billion people and self-proclaimed superpower but can't make a decent assault rifle.

 

[Bilal.]

1.3 billion people and self-proclaimed superpower but can't make a decent assault rifle.

And on top of it. They bought the cheaper less reliable DI version **face palm**

Doesn’t give them any advantage over Pakistan army’s G3 except for the for more attachment points which for the average infantry grunt is useless anyways.

 

[Bossman]

From the time Car816 was shortlisted, there was literally no evidence nor statement either from IA or MoD anything on those lines. Unless you have credible proof or your uncle is part of the selection committee, stop speculating random crap


Sig-716 is ofcourse slated for frontline troops which has also been reported by several media outlets including Sig Sauer's official page. I assume the initial 72k ordered will be given to Rashtriya Rifles and their respective Ghatak Platoons deployed in the valley and along LoC

NEWINGTON, N.H., (February 13, 2019) – SIG SAUER, Inc. is pleased to announce the Government of India, Ministry of Defense has officially contracted with SIG SAUER to build and deliver 72,400 SIG716 rifles for its frontline infantry soldiers. The Indian Army, the second largest standing army in the world with more than 1.2 million active troops, is currently undergoing a comprehensive firearms procurement process to advance the capabilities of the Indian Army’s infantrymen.

https://www.sigsauer.com/press-releases/sig-sauer-announces-over-72400-sig-rifles-to-be-deployed-with-indian-army/


IA primarily trains on the Insas and AK. The recoil of a 7.62 round be it Nato or AK is fairly close so training and acclimatization of the gun wouldn't be an issue. Secondly, Insas has served us long enough and IA isn't running like headless chickens since the Car, Sig & AK deals were formulated long back and there is no hurry to procure any of em. Infact, I don't expect a call to be taken on the AK or CAR deal anytime soon.

But it looks like you just wanna rant outta your blind hatred for India...so be it

Here is my crap on procurement of Caracal from an Indian source dated July 15th:

https://theprint.in/defence/indian-...-deal-in-final-stages-of-confirmation/461288/

So with the small number of Sigs being procured compared to the size of IA there will be very little interoperability with the AK? Now add Caracal to the mix.

No I don’t have blind hatred for India, but I find the Indian military procurement mind boggling. BTW what type of testing these rifles went through and why SIG cannot be made in India? Pakistani small size weapons makers with a couple of CNC machines can make such good copies of the M4 that even Colt cannot tell the difference.

 

[HalfMoon]

Is Modi telling the truth or lying?

Obviously its a lie. Chinese PLA is having pool parties in Indian waters as we speak.

 

[Zapper]

Here is my crap on procurement of Caracal from an Indian source dated July 15th:

I've been seeing such news since 2017. Even for the MMRCA 2.0, SAAB, LM, Boeing all pay reporters to put up an article favorable to their product after which members open threads and go on endless debates.

So with the small number of Sigs being procured compared to the size of IA there will be very little interoperability with the AK?

and your point being? First up, Carbines will be used in CQB's and urban settings while Assault Rifles will primarily be used in Battlefield settings. IA didn't standardize it's gear across all units. It procures in batches and equips soldiers based on where they're deployed and what they're dealing with. For instance, IA procured around 150-170k helmets from Lucknow based MKU industries as a stop gap to replace the Patkas used by RR deployed in the valley and as previously stated, Sigs might go to the same units

why SIG cannot be made in India?

Sig can be made in India except that these rifles were procured on a fastrack basis. For Sig to setup a factory, undergo negotiations, establish supply chain, ToT would all take time which is what the AK-203 deal is. From the time of concluding the deal, the entire first batch of 72k rifles was delivered within 2 years

Pakistani small size weapons makers with a couple of CNC machines can make such good copies of the M4 that even Colt cannot tell the difference

I admit our OFB's are crap with shoddy work culture but the recent small arms they've manufactured are fairly decent like the Amogh Carbine, Excalibur Mk-1, JVPC etc which are being used by state police and paramilitary forces across India. They've got so used to the chai-biscut culture and lazing off all day that they're now protesting against privatization

But again, Indian private startups like SSS Defence have come up with great designs and excellent quality as showcased during DefExpo-2020. I really hope MoD cancels the AK-203 deal and goes with SSS Defence. Their snipers are currently being tested by NSG & Para SF

SSS Defence's P72 Assault Rifle

And on top of it. They bought the cheaper less reliable DI version **face palm**

Doesn’t give them any advantage over Pakistan army’s G3 except for the for more attachment points which for the average infantry grunt is useless anyways.

DI versions are lighter, with noticeably lesser recoil and far more accurate than their gas piston counterparts. The trade off is DI versions causes the fired bullet to retract unburned gunpowder back into the rifle in minute amounts resulting in cleaning the rifle more often. Because gas piston systems are less common than direct impingement ones, they’re usually more expensive and it is harder to find replacement parts for them. Again, the Sig-716 G2 Patrol costs $1800-2000 while the Sig-716i costed IA $1000 resulting in equipping twice the number of soldiers by going with the 716i

These rifles are not being given to Special Forces to equip em with top of the line arms and gear

 

[Bilal.]

I've been seeing such news since 2017. Even for the MMRCA 2.0, SAAB, LM, Boeing all pay reporters to put up an article favorable to their product after which members open threads and go on endless debates.


and your point being? First up, Carbines will be used in CQB's and urban settings while Assault Rifles will primarily be used in Battlefield settings. IA didn't standardize it's gear across all units. It procures in batches and equips soldiers based on where they're deployed and what they're dealing with. For instance, IA procured around 150-170k helmets from Lucknow based MKU industries as a stop gap to replace the Patkas used by RR deployed in the valley and as previously stated, Sigs might go to the same units


Sig can be made in India except that these rifles were procured on a fastrack basis. For Sig to setup a factory, undergo negotiations, establish supply chain, ToT would all take time which is what the AK-203 deal is. From the time of concluding the deal, the entire first batch of 72k rifles was delivered within 2 years


I admit our OFB's are crap with shoddy work culture but the recent small arms they've manufactured are fairly decent like the Amogh Carbine, Excalibur Mk-1, JVPC etc which are being used by state police and paramilitary forces across India. They've got so used to the chai-biscut culture and lazing off all day that they're now protesting against privatization

But again, Indian private startups like SSS Defence have come up with great designs and excellent quality as showcased during DefExpo-2020. I really hope MoD cancels the AK-203 deal and goes with SSS Defence. Their snipers are currently being tested by NSG & Para SF

SSS Defence's P72 Assault Rifle

DI versions are lighter, with noticeably lesser recoil and far more accurate than their gas piston counterparts. The trade off is DI versions causes the fired bullet to retract unburned gunpowder back into the rifle in minute amounts resulting in cleaning the rifle more often. Because gas piston systems are less common than direct impingement ones, they’re usually more expensive and it is harder to find replacement parts for them. Again, the Sig-716 G2 Patrol costs $1800-2000 while the Sig-716i costed IA $1000 resulting in equipping twice the number of soldiers by going with the 716i

View attachment 652140

These rifles are not being given to Special Forces to equip em with top of the line arms and gear

It’s basically an AR10....

 

[21st Century Vampire]

Too big round. Should have gone.
for 5.56mm as much less recoil.

That's because he's burst firing, in the first video the recoil is clearly good (on par or better than some 7.62 out there) at semi automatic that's why there's a reason the Sig 716 is known for excellent accuracy at 900 yards [best one i read is among the many (1.5 - 1 MOA on average) is consistent <1 sub MOA with proper optics] so i expect the 716i Tread to be even better thanks to the lower recoil and your point is incorrect because the rifle is (and will be) for designated marksmanship "DM" (or around the same kind) so only semi automatic will be involved, no bursts no recoil issues. You're also incorrect about the cartridge, 7.62x51 already has advantages over the 5.56 in terms of long range penetration and lethality and the capabilities of the Sig 716 solves most deficiencies in terms of power requisites [Muzzle velocity (the most important difference) around (≈) 1400 f/s at 800 yrds reducing average gap compared to the other caliber by 300 f/s thanks to the platform, a 7.62x51 at this velocity will have more penetrative punch compared to a 5.56 at ≈1800 f/s at 800 yrds due to the caliber] and adds up to the already existing advantages the 7.62x51 has over the 5.56

 

[Anik101]