Indian Army Chief answer to Pakistan Journalist

[Abu Zolfiqar]

That's why your former general has a bounty on his head, barking on the other side of Asia.

says the guy sitting and meowing away in some thrifty motel on flamingo

which bounty are you talking about? I think an other member already showed you a link that even Interpol refused to arrest him on politically motivated/fabricated charges

 

[EzioAltaïr]

Point 5353. . .

....is a peak lying directly on the LoC, with no sides having any claim to it. Pakistan never won 5353 from Indians, as there were no Indians there in the first place (as per the winter retreat agreement), and India never attacked it as it's on the LoC, and we like to respect borders.

 

[notorious_eagle]

....is a peak lying directly on the LoC, with no sides having any claim to it. Pakistan never won 5353 from Indians, as there were no Indians there in the first place (as per the winter retreat agreement), and India never attacked it as it's on the LoC, and we like to respect borders.

Seriously, don't you guys ever get tired of lying. I mean who are you trying to fool here, we all have internet and can access information online. Have some freaking integrity and stop lying out of your a**.

Near Tiger Hill, Point 5353 still Pak-occupied

Standing tall and dominating the famous Tiger Hill on the Line of Control (LoC) is a grim reminder of the Kargil war. Point 5353, the highest peak in the region which has a clear view of the National Highway 1 D, remains occupied by Pakistan even a decade after the battle.

While the point is clearly on the Indian side of the LoC, it remains in Pakistani control which has fortified it with reinforced bunkers and has even built a special road nearby to carry up supplies for soldiers.

The Indian Army, which made several unsuccessful attempts to occupy the post after the Kargil war, has since given up the post as "untenable" given the geography of the region that makes it fairly easy for Pakistani troops to climb.

What makes Point 5353 so valuable for the two armies is that it has a clear view of the national highway that connects the Kashmir valley with Kargil. The main reason the Army retaliated hard to the Pakistani intrusion in 1999 was that disruption of traffic on the road would cut off supplies to Ladakh and the Siachen glacier.

While officers say that Point 5353 is surrounded by three Indian posts, including Point 5240 and any action from there would be neutralised, the fact remains that artillery observers from the post can easily direct fire on a 25 km stretch of the national highway.

Besides, the most dominating feature in the region has a clear view of the Tiger Hill and surrounding areas. Sources say Pakistan has constructed concrete bunkers at the location and have a special supply base on their side of the LoC that has substantial reinforcements.

Several attempts to dislodge Pakistani troops from the posts with the help of artillery fire remained unsuccessful till action became impossible after the 2003 ceasefire. The Army has since given up the option of retaking the post in the larger interest of peace in the area.

Even a decade after the war and several revelations by Pakistani officers that the main aim of the intrusion was to cut off the strategic Drass-Kargil highway so that supplies to Siachen would dry up, the road remains under the threat of enemy fire. Besides Drass and Point 5353, several other stretches of the road at places like Kaksar are under Pakistani observation.

While a lot of papers were moved after the Army said that an alternative all-weather road to Leh and Siachen is urgently required, work on the ground remains extremely slow. Efforts are on to make the Manali-Leh highway into an all-weather road but even the most positive estimates say the strategic tunnel at Rohtang pass will take at least seven more years to complete.

Supplies for Leh and the Siachen glacier follow two basic routes — through the Rohtang pass on the Manali-Leh highway or through the Zojila pass on the Srinagar-Leh highway 1 D. While the 13,000 feet Rohtang pass remains cut off longer in winters, the 11,500 feet Zojila pass generally opens earlier and is used to carry supplies for Army units.

What is worrisome is that even after a decade of the Kargil war, highway 1 D remains under the threat of being cut off by enemy fire.

Near Tiger Hill, Point 5353 still Pak-occupied - Indian Express

 

[arbit]

Seriously, don't you guys ever get tired of lying. I mean who are you trying to fool here, we all have internet and can access information online. Have some freaking integrity and stop lying out of your a**.

He might be ignorant perhaps, but whats amusing is amongst all the garbage being spouted by pregerin whatever and his ilk, this was the post that got your goat. Even the TTs are not above petty oneupmanships.
and please don't call 'us people' liars, we are toddlers when it comes to this art which you have perfected beyond belief.

 

[Bang Galore]

Seriously, don't you guys ever get tired of lying. I mean who are you trying to fool here, we all have internet and can access information online. Have some freaking integrity and stop lying out of your a**.

Seriously...? So what? What difference has it made some 14 years after the Kargil war? We still have Siachen & whatever it is that you can see from that peak, you haven't had the guts to make anything from it. You chaps keep talking as if that peak is of importance by itself. It isn't, the fact is that if it gave you a realistic advantage, you would have used it by now. The proof of the pudding after all, is in the eating of it. The facts on the grounds state otherwise. It is pretty obvious that the bloody nose Pakistan got in 1999 has effectively deterred it from trying any more adventures. Silly arguments about holding to the peak in question has earned you nothing, except a hardening of the Indian position on Siachen. Considering that the very idea of the Kargil operation was to force India to vacate Siachen, this is more than a bit counterproductive, what?

 

[Capt.Popeye]

Seriously...? So what? What difference has it made some 14 years after the Kargil war? We still have Siachen & whatever it is that you can see from that peak, you haven't had the guts to make anything from it. You chaps keep talking as if that peak is of importance by itself. It isn't, the fact is that if it gave you a realistic advantage, you would have used it by now. The proof of the pudding after all, is in the eating of it. The facts on the grounds state otherwise. It is pretty obvious that the bloody nose Pakistan got in 1999 has effectively deterred it from trying any more adventures. Silly arguments about holding to the peak in question has earned you nothing, except a hardening of the Indian position on Siachen. Considering that the very idea of the Kargil operation was to force India to vacate Siachen, this is more than a bit counterproductive what?

Kargil and Musharraff's botched-up abomination of a "plan(?)". came as a God-Send to both India's Diplomatic Estt. and Strategic Estt.

For the Diplomatic Estt: Kargil started the process of the de-hyphenation of India and Pakistan in policy making in Washinton and NATO. That process is now completed. The concept of Indo-Pak in Dept of State and Dept. of Def. in Washington is now dead. India achieved that after 5 decades.

For the Strategic Estt: Kargil gave them a voice in formulation of both Strategic and Diplomatic Policy-making in India. Before that they were only part of the consultative process. Now they are part of the Decision-making process. That was clearly demonstrated on various occasions esp wrt the idea of vacating Siachen.

Both Estts. need to thank Musharraff Miyan for being the biggest enabler of these changes.

 

[Bang Galore]

Kargil and Musharraff's botched-up abomination of a "plan(?)". came as a God-Send to both India's Diplomatic Estt. and Strategic Estt.

For the Diplomatic Estt: Kargil started the process of the de-hyphenation of India and Pakistan in policy making in Washinton and NATO. That process is now completed. The concept of Indo-Pak in Dept of State and Dept. of Def. in Washington is now dead. India achieved that after 5 decades.

For the Strategic Estt: Kargil gave them a voice in formulation of both Strategic and Diplomatic Policy-making in India. Before that they were only part of the consultative process. Now they are part of the Decision-making process. That was clearly demonstrated on various occasions esp wrt the idea of vacating Siachen.

Both Estts. need to thank Musharraff Miyan for being the biggest enabler of these changes.

Actually there was something far bigger than what you have cited that was averted. When Vajpayee went to Lahore to make peace, he was the tallest standing Indian leader with a real ability to sell a solution on Kashmir which in 1999, would have involved substantial territorial transfers. Pakistan by the actions in Kargil put those plans into cold storage & then with the events of 9/11, the Parliament attacks & with the change in Indian economic position, what was possible to be contemplated in 1999 was never to be contemplated ever again & all Pakistan ended up negotiating was soft borders, more autonomy & the like. All Indians are in the deep debt of the Pakistani army for having removed that situation from the table. Musharraf must be treated as the saviour of Indian Kashmir & his statue must be put in some park in New Delhi for the tremendous service(even if unintentional) done to the people of India .

 

[GURU DUTT]

Seriously, don't you guys ever get tired of lying. I mean who are you trying to fool here, we all have internet and can access information online. Have some freaking integrity and stop lying out of your a**.

Near Tiger Hill, Point 5353 still Pak-occupied

Standing tall and dominating the famous Tiger Hill on the Line of Control (LoC) is a grim reminder of the Kargil war. Point 5353, the highest peak in the region which has a clear view of the National Highway 1 D, remains occupied by Pakistan even a decade after the battle.

While the point is clearly on the Indian side of the LoC, it remains in Pakistani control which has fortified it with reinforced bunkers and has even built a special road nearby to carry up supplies for soldiers.

The Indian Army, which made several unsuccessful attempts to occupy the post after the Kargil war, has since given up the post as "untenable" given the geography of the region that makes it fairly easy for Pakistani troops to climb.



Near Tiger Hill, Point 5353 still Pak-occupied - Indian Express

well sir ok point 5353 is with what diff does it makes

did you got control of NH 1 d

did you got control of Siachin glacier

What has your own Gen Shahid aziz had said about this issue and how it affected the moral and prestege of PA & pakistan in the world community

What did pakistan Gain from Kargill war and what did it loose

now about IA chief adressing Pakistani journalist please care to tell how was owr chief in any way defensive or how pakistan gained any moral high ground

well truth is very harsh and you know it with kargil pakistan lost all its credebillity as a peace loving nation and also the Kashmir cause and trust of your own strategickk asetss

no one takes pakistani assurances serousli now not even your greatest ally USA & even china (they even asked you to solve your owtstanding issues on LOC voilations mutually )

Pakistan lost its biggest arms supplier and a Aid doaner like USA to india and despite all your valid or invalid reservation both USA /West & Israel are arming India with all the latest stuff + China is doing Billion of dollrs worth trade with India

so please care to enlighten me how has the siachin & kargil conflict made the pakistani case any stronger Thanks

 

[Capt.Popeye]

Actually there was something far bigger than what you have cited that was averted. When Vajpayee went to Lahore to make peace, he was the tallest standing Indian leader with a real ability to sell a solution on Kashmir which in 1999, would have involved substantial territorial transfers. Pakistan by the actions in Kargil put those plans into cold storage & then with the events of 9/11, the Parliament attacks & with the change in Indian economic position, what was possible to be contemplated in 1999 was never to be contemplated ever again & all Pakistan ended up negotiating was soft borders, more autonomy & the like. All Indians are in the deep debt of the Pakistani army for having removed that situation from the table. Musharraf must be treated as the saviour of Indian Kashmir & his statue must be put in some park in New Delhi for the tremendous service(even if unintentional) done to the people of India .

Kashmir has been eternally consigned to the back-burner of international opinion. Musharraff hurt the Kashmir cause more than anybody else could have. That is his lasting legacy wrt to Kashmir.
So Kashmir is destined to remain a "status-quo".

 

[notorious_eagle]

My post was in reference to a false claim that was being propagated by one of your fellow brethren, but it appears that truth has ticked you off so i will play ball.

Seriously...? So what? What difference has it made some 14 years after the Kargil war? We still have Siachen & whatever it is that you can see from that peak,

Well the fact of the matter is it used to be occupied by India, and i was under the assumption that Indian Army operates under the doctrine to protect both worth while and worthless piece of Indian territory. I will leave it up to our strategic commanders to decide whether this peak holds any value or not. But it does appear that the peak holds value because PA commanders have poured in resources.

you haven't had the guts to make anything from it.

Artillery observers. It will help PA's artillery immensely to bring down accurate fire on enemy's positions, besides i haven't researched much so i am not aware of other advantages this peak brings to Pakistan. And how do you know that we haven't had the guts to make anything of it? It is your countrymen that are raising hue and cry about the presence of this peak in PA's possession, not Pakistanis.

You chaps keep talking as if that peak is of importance by itself. It isn't, the fact is that if it gave you a realistic advantage, you would have used it by now.

The fact that IA engaged in several attempts to retake this peak makes your actions contrary to your words. If these peaks held no value, the IA would have no attempted to take them back and avoid themselves additional bloodshed.

The proof of the pudding after all, is in the eating of it.

Indeed, the only problem is your bias is clouding your judgement making it impossible to see the reality.

The facts on the grounds state otherwise. It is pretty obvious that the bloody nose Pakistan got in 1999 has effectively deterred it from trying any more adventures.

Mountain warfare is indeed a tricky situation, the dense static environment in LOC makes any gain extremely costly. This is why PA decided against it, also the fact that the operation in Kargil was a tactical plan made it even worse. And as far as deterring any future misadventures are concerned, Indian consistent whining against Pakistan would speak otherwise. Your commanders and politicians have repeatedly accused Pakistan of engaging in misadventures even after Kargil, the actions of your leaders are contrary to your words.

Silly arguments about holding to the peak in question has earned you nothing, except a hardening of the Indian position on Siachen. Considering that the very idea of the Kargil operation was to force India to vacate Siachen, this is more than a bit counterproductive, what?

No disagreements there, Kargil was indeed a failure because the operational planning was horrible.

 

[Jackdaws]

Can't access the video - says it is blocked

 

[Bang Galore]

My post was in reference to a false claim that was being propagated by one of your fellow brethren, but it appears that truth has ticked you off so i will play ball.



Well the fact of the matter is it used to be occupied by India, and i was under the assumption that Indian Army operates under the doctrine to protect both worth while and worthless piece of Indian territory. I will leave it up to our strategic commanders to decide whether this peak holds any value or not. But it does appear that the peak holds value because PA commanders have poured in resources.



Artillery observers. It will help PA's artillery immensely to bring down accurate fire on enemy's positions, besides i haven't researched much so i am not aware of other advantages this peak brings to Pakistan. And how do you know that we haven't had the guts to make anything of it? It is your countrymen that are raising hue and cry about the presence of this peak in PA's possession, not Pakistanis.



The fact that IA engaged in several attempts to retake this peak makes your actions contrary to your words. If these peaks held no value, the IA would have no attempted to take them back and avoid themselves additional bloodshed.



Indeed, the only problem is your bias is clouding your judgement making it impossible to see the reality.



Mountain warfare is indeed a tricky situation, the dense static environment in LOC makes any gain extremely costly. This is why PA decided against it, also the fact that the operation in Kargil was a tactical plan made it even worse. And as far as deterring any future misadventures are concerned, Indian consistent whining against Pakistan would speak otherwise. Your commanders and politicians have repeatedly accused Pakistan of engaging in misadventures even after Kargil, the actions of your leaders are contrary to your words.



No disagreements there, Kargil was indeed a failure because the operational planning was horrible.

I'm aware of the reality that you seem to overlook. It is 14 years since 1999 & the world has changed so much as to make observing from a peak irrelevant. Whatever it is that you are observing, it seems to have given you nothing tangible whatsoever. We hold Siachen, we hold the Kashmir we have held & you have coveted. What has that peak earned for you? If you believe it is worth the bitterness & the deaths caused, so be it. I'm concerned not with what holding that peak does to what is left of your morale, I was merely pointing out that in practical terms, it means nothing. If you wait a few more years, they would have completely bypassed that road & what would you be watching then from that peak? We can inflict far more pain on you , as we are doing by insisting on staying in Siachen & forcing your lot to stay there. What price that peak? What price that adventure? Whatever small incidents that happen on the LoC or even a larger incident like that in Mumbai doesn't change anything in the overall picture. I don't know whether you draw comfort from the peak you hold or feel the pain of a hardened Indian position on Siachen in the deaths of the soldiers at the Gyari camp, that is your call. The proof of the pudding, as I have repeatedly said, is in the eating. Pakistani adventure in Kargil might have gotten you one peak but that is cold comfort when you consider what has been lost, both militarily & for the democracy of your country (direct correlation to the coup), not to say of any chance to make peace with India on Siachen or the larger question of Kashmir. Any peace now will have to be on our terms or not at all. That is the legacy of the stupidity in 1999.

 

[EzioAltaïr]

Seriously, don't you guys ever get tired of lying. I mean who are you trying to fool here, we all have internet and can access information online. Have some freaking integrity and stop lying out of your a**.

Near Tiger Hill, Point 5353 still Pak-occupied

Standing tall and dominating the famous Tiger Hill on the Line of Control (LoC) is a grim reminder of the Kargil war. Point 5353, the highest peak in the region which has a clear view of the National Highway 1 D, remains occupied by Pakistan even a decade after the battle.

While the point is clearly on the Indian side of the LoC, it remains in Pakistani control which has fortified it with reinforced bunkers and has even built a special road nearby to carry up supplies for soldiers.

The Indian Army, which made several unsuccessful attempts to occupy the post after the Kargil war, has since given up the post as "untenable" given the geography of the region that makes it fairly easy for Pakistani troops to climb.

What makes Point 5353 so valuable for the two armies is that it has a clear view of the national highway that connects the Kashmir valley with Kargil. The main reason the Army retaliated hard to the Pakistani intrusion in 1999 was that disruption of traffic on the road would cut off supplies to Ladakh and the Siachen glacier.

While officers say that Point 5353 is surrounded by three Indian posts, including Point 5240 and any action from there would be neutralised, the fact remains that artillery observers from the post can easily direct fire on a 25 km stretch of the national highway.

Besides, the most dominating feature in the region has a clear view of the Tiger Hill and surrounding areas. Sources say Pakistan has constructed concrete bunkers at the location and have a special supply base on their side of the LoC that has substantial reinforcements.

Several attempts to dislodge Pakistani troops from the posts with the help of artillery fire remained unsuccessful till action became impossible after the 2003 ceasefire. The Army has since given up the option of retaking the post in the larger interest of peace in the area.

Even a decade after the war and several revelations by Pakistani officers that the main aim of the intrusion was to cut off the strategic Drass-Kargil highway so that supplies to Siachen would dry up, the road remains under the threat of enemy fire. Besides Drass and Point 5353, several other stretches of the road at places like Kaksar are under Pakistani observation.

While a lot of papers were moved after the Army said that an alternative all-weather road to Leh and Siachen is urgently required, work on the ground remains extremely slow. Efforts are on to make the Manali-Leh highway into an all-weather road but even the most positive estimates say the strategic tunnel at Rohtang pass will take at least seven more years to complete.

Supplies for Leh and the Siachen glacier follow two basic routes — through the Rohtang pass on the Manali-Leh highway or through the Zojila pass on the Srinagar-Leh highway 1 D. While the 13,000 feet Rohtang pass remains cut off longer in winters, the 11,500 feet Zojila pass generally opens earlier and is used to carry supplies for Army units.

What is worrisome is that even after a decade of the Kargil war, highway 1 D remains under the threat of being cut off by enemy fire.

Near Tiger Hill, Point 5353 still Pak-occupied - Indian Express

Fact and fiction on Point 5353

Addressing an audience of businessmen in Mumbai in early August, Union Defence Minister George Fernandes put forward the sole cogent official response to the revelations about Point 5353. "5353," he said, "is the point over which the LoC goes. The fact i s, our troops had never occupied that. The normal practice among them has been that where the line goes over a peak, then nobody occupies it." The Minister then proceeded to assault what he perceived to be irresponsible media organisations, much to the d elight of the assembled Mumbai businesspersons, many of whom have had their own skirmishes with reporters. But an analysis of Fernandes' statement shows not only little concern for fact, but an alarming willingness to use falsehood to ensure that his cho sen team in the defence establishment can continue to be incompetent with impunity.

 

[SamantK]

Actually there was something far bigger than what you have cited that was averted. When Vajpayee went to Lahore to make peace, he was the tallest standing Indian leader with a real ability to sell a solution on Kashmir which in 1999, would have involved substantial territorial transfers. Pakistan by the actions in Kargil put those plans into cold storage & then with the events of 9/11, the Parliament attacks & with the change in Indian economic position, what was possible to be contemplated in 1999 was never to be contemplated ever again & all Pakistan ended up negotiating was soft borders, more autonomy & the like. All Indians are in the deep debt of the Pakistani army for having removed that situation from the table. Musharraf must be treated as the saviour of Indian Kashmir & his statue must be put in some park in New Delhi for the tremendous service(even if unintentional) done to the people of India .

Interesting, do you have any source on this?

Soft borders was heard, territorial transfers?

 

[Mirza Jatt]

Nicely and very confidently put b the Chief. I like the part where he say he is a man who firmly believes in and respects the civil authority. This puts us apart from many