What's new

Indian Army Bunkers & Tunnels are Toast on LOC

I dont think Pakistan will use Precious Missile like TOW. Maybe they are using Bhaktar Shikans
What u say @HRK @Signalian @Gryphon
does it matter ?

"https://t.co/eap1im6phg">pic.twitter.com/eap1im6phg</a></p>&mdash; himat (@himat35261317) <a href=" ">
The usual exaggeration. LOC pe India ko Chapperrain parr rai hain - tikka tikka k.

Usage of USA Made Weapon, be it - TOW or F-16 or AH-1 or M-109. India wants to show USA that weapons supplied by USA are being used against India. Not sure if TOW is being used or not, but how else to bring in limelight that yes Pakistani Army is thrashing Indian Army. India thinks USA will listen and stop supplying weapons to Pakistan.

There was a time, decades ago, SSG operated with mujahideen inside IOK. However, post 2000, this does NOT happen. BAT's dont exist. SSG snipers are deployed on LOC, however ATGM, mortar, LMG etc is not specifically assigned to SSG only. I know few units deployed on LOC which have been in WANA, SUI, Waziristan in actual combat and then are deployed on LOC. What will India face then ? Battle hardened veterans who have killed dozens of Indian trained and supplied terrorists operating on Pakistani soil. These veterans will definitely prove deadly with their years of combat experience. These are regular infantry mostly, not SSG. Pakistan cannot afford to deploy SSG evverywhere.

The report mentioned India sniper fire caused Pakistan to used ATGM - stupid analysis. Pakistan will use ATGM nonetheless- whether Indian army uses sniper, LMG, mortar, artillery, AAA Guns it doesnt matter.
 
. .
Because, it's my land and land of some of my forefathers who defeated your Hindu friends. I dont find any reason for migration. Nonetheless, all of the land belongs to the Almighty.



Sir, I have a great respect for you. But, the guy has cleared his stance in unambiguous terms. So, we should believe him that he considers Hindus as his friends. Whether these Hindus live in Pakistan or India does not bother me. They are same and belong to the same religion. They can be Pakistanis and can be loyal Pakistanis, but they can not be my friends. I would also like to clarify that I strongly believe that their rights should be protected, they should be given freedom to exercise their religious practices and they should be given equal opportunities to prosper in the society. However, they can not be my friends and this thing is more clear to me than the mid day sun.

For me, it was always a religious war and will remain a religious war.



Yes, its a problem for me. I am not suggesting that Hindus are all bad, I just believe that they can not be my friends.
We take our guidnce from our Hadi SAW. He SAW made pacts with non muslims and respected them irrespective till such time that the Non muslims broke the pacts themselves. There is no instance short of treachery where he SAW has driven non muslims out of the state or persecuted them .
Adi ibn Muttim was a non muslim who on account of his friendship with Abu Talib gave shelter to my Hadi SAW. After Badr Rasool Allah SAW stated "By Allah if Addi ibn Muttim was alive and he came and asked me for all these prisoners Iwould free them without thinking twice. After my Habeeb SAW went to His Habeeb Izza wa Jal, the muslims who conquered other lands wouldd allow all inhabitants to stay on their cities and run them in accordance with their customs. They would even set up camps outside the city.
My teaching is from my Hadi SAW and He teaches me to respect and protect all non muslims if they remain loyal to your cause. If you are his SAW follower you will follow his ways as well.
Regards
A
 
.
Running around like a headless chicken isnt going to distract me from the bullsh$t you posted. What the actual f$ck are you even doing on Pakistan Defense forum, oh yes I forgot you disgusting fascist have no shame.


Those that live in Pakistan have green flowing through their veins it doesnt matter what they believe in or who they are. They are our brothers in arms and 10X better then those muslims that joined the kaffirs against the Islamic state of Pakistan.


Hindus of Pakistan slapped their ugly arse faces by raising voices for the oppressed in india.


Those that ran, ran from all religions and races. Most of our Hindus stayed behind and faced the evil that was created by the enemy. They fought with us, shoulder to shoulder. In Swat, FATA and on the borders. They lost their lives protecting millions of muslims. Shame on you for even thinking this sh$t. You just washed away the sacrifices those people gave so that you can wake up in the morning and have fu&king tea.

Shame on all of you that think like him. You lot don't deserve Pakistan and Pakistan doesnt need ungrateful sh$ts like you.


What makes you think your going to heaven? You just tossed aside the sacrifices of those that saved ungrateful sh$ts like you. Surely you dont expect allah to award those that bash their saviors. Disgusting
Why getting upset all I stated are facts you cannot prove me wrong .
 
. .
We take our guidnce from our Hadi SAW. He SAW made pacts with non muslims and respected them irrespective till such time that the Non muslims broke the pacts themselves. There is no instance short of treachery where he SAW has driven non muslims out of the state or persecuted them .
Adi ibn Muttim was a non muslim who on account of his friendship with Abu Talib gave shelter to my Hadi SAW. After Badr Rasool Allah SAW stated "By Allah if Addi ibn Muttim was alive and he came and asked me for all these prisoners Iwould free them without thinking twice. After my Habeeb SAW went to His Habeeb Izza wa Jal, the muslims who conquered other lands wouldd allow all inhabitants to stay on their cities and run them in accordance with their customs. They would even set up camps outside the city.
My teaching is from my Hadi SAW and He teaches me to respect and protect all non muslims if they remain loyal to your cause. If you are his SAW follower you will follow his ways as well.
Regards
A

Indeed, we take our guidance from our Hadi Syedi o Maulai Rasool Allah P.B.U.H. We love Him A.S more than any one else and we are committed to stand for his Deen. In the same spirit, we can not love or make friendships with His enemies or the people who rejected his Deen. Friends of Rasool Allah A.S are our friends and His enemies are our enemies. How can any follower of Rasool Allah A.S love or respect enemies of his Syedi o Hadi A.S? When Quran is clearly saying that:


Indeed, those who oppose Allah and His Messenger are abased as those before them were abased. And We have certainly sent down verses of clear evidence. And for the disbelievers is a humiliating punishment. Surah e Mujadla 5


Indeed, the ones who oppose Allah and His Messenger - those will be among the most humbled. Mujadla 20


Quran has given a clear verdict on this matter. Quran being the first source of shariah will be given preference. Quran is saying that those who appose Allah and His Messenger A.S are abased and you people are suggesting that they are respectable and we should love them. Can you quote any verse of Quran in which Quran consider non believers as respectable? As far as my knowledge of Quran goes, it is suggesting otherwise:


O Prophet, fight against the disbelievers and the hypocrites and be harsh upon them. And their refuge is Hell, and wretched is the destination. Surah e Toba 73


Quran does not distinguish between Pakistani Hindus and Indian Hindus, they belong to the same religion, the same Millat, the same nation. This notion is the basis of 'two nation theory'. The only difference between these two groups of non believers is the fact that Pakistani Hindus have accepted the supremacy of Islamic state and they vowed to remain loyal to this Islamic state. They are enjoying rights of freedom of religion and practice due to this agreement between them and Islamic state.

And fight against the disbelievers collectively as they fight against you collectively. And know that Allah is with the righteous [who fear Him]. Surah e Toba 36

Sir, you have stated rightly that Prophet P.B.U.H have made pacts with non believers and I am not denying this historical fact. However, you have drawn wrong conclusions from this fact like other prominent Muslim leaders who supported congress before partition. Can you please Quote a verse of Quran or Sahih Ahaades where Muslims were being commanded to respect, love or show affection towards non Muslims? You have given the example of pacts and then you just linked it to respect for non Muslims. Sir, I am unable to find any connection between these two things.

I am not advocating or supporting the persecution of Non Muslim Pakistanis. They should be given their due rights with utmost sincerity, they should be protected from persecution and they should be allowed to practice their religion freely. I dont know why you are discussing persecution issue. We dont have any difference of opinion regarding this.

We have to understand the difference between "Muamlaat" and "Mawalaat" with non believers. Islam does not stop Muslims to conduct wordily affairs of day to day life with non Muslims. All of the examples you quoted above are related to these matters. We are allowed to conduct trade with non Muslims, to establish relation with non Islamic states, to sign agreements and to interact in a peaceful way. All of this is permissible until such acts does not damage the interest of Muslims or not going against the basic principles of Shariah. If one or all such acts are opposing the principles of shariah then these "Muamlaat" are also not permissible.

"Mawalaat" with non Muslims is not permissible in any case. They can not be our fiends, they can not be our allies, we cant make love affairs with enemies of Rasool Allah A.S. We can not express or posses feelings of love and affection with non believers. It is prohibited in unambiguous terms in Quran itself:

O you who have believed, do not take your fathers or your brothers as allies if they have preferred disbelief over belief. And whoever does so among you - then it is those who are the wrongdoers.

Say, [O Muhammad], "If your fathers, your sons, your brothers, your wives, your relatives, wealth which you have obtained, commerce wherein you fear decline, and dwellings with which you are pleased are more beloved to you than Allah and His Messenger and jihad in His cause, then wait until Allah executes His command. And Allah does not guide the defiantly disobedient people." Surah e Toba 23, 24

Please also keep in mind that Surah e Toba is among the surahs which were revealed at the last years of Prophetic missions.

Fiqh e Islami also makes a clear distinction between Muamlaat and Mawalaat. Muamlaat are permissible in those cases which are not directly or indirectly hurting the interest of Muslims or not going against the injunctions of shariah. Mawalaat are absolutely non permissible, in any case or form. These principles are also discussed and accepted by Islamic jurist in books like Radul Mukhtar, Jamae Ramooz, hidaya, bahr ur Raiq, Fath ul Qadeer, kaafi, tabayun, jamae Sagheer, Ghaya tul Bayan, ghuniya and maeraj ud daraya.

Jurist have further divided Mawalaat into various categories like Mawalat e Haqeeqi and Mawalaat e sauriya. These categories and their Ahkaam can be seen in above mentioned books. I am intentionally skipping the detail because then the discussion would become more complex.

Moreover, this debate is not a new one. Ulma e Rabaniyeen have already settled this issue when they rejected the arguments of some pro Congress Muslim leaders during the khilafat movement.

You have quoted the words of our Habeeb e Kareem A.S and the example of Adi ibn e Muttim without quoting references. Nevertheless, your example is just suggesting that Prophet A.S was returning the favour to a person who provided Him a shelter. Can this example and verses of Quran with clear and unambiguous verdicts be compared? For example in Surah e Fatah - which was also revealed in last years of Prophetic mission - Quran is highlighting the attributes of Ashab un Nabi:

Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah ; and those with him are forceful against the disbelievers, merciful among themselves. Surah e Fatah 29

Now Sir, Quran is saying that Ashab e Rasool were forceful against the disbelievers and you are suggesting that we should be gentle with them. I am finding clear contradictions between your statements and the word of God.

I never raised any objections to the humane behaviour of Muslims towards their Zimmis. I am infect a great admirer of this behaviour.

Those that live in Pakistan have green flowing through their veins it doesnt matter what they believe in or who they are. They are our brothers in arms and 10X better then those muslims that joined the kaffirs against the Islamic state of Pakistan.

Muslims who joined Kafirs are still Muslims. Their treachery to the right cause make them traitors, defectors but not Kafirs. We will fight these traitors and will punish them for leaving the right cause. Nonetheless, a kafir and a non practicing or a bad Muslim can not become equal. Kafir is a kafir and can not be compared with a Muslim.

What makes you think your going to heaven?
I never made such claims. However, I pray that may God lift me with Muslims and may God grant me a place alongside believers.

The path of those upon whom You have bestowed favor, not of those who have evoked [Your] anger or of those who are astray. Fatiha 7

You just tossed aside the sacrifices of those that saved ungrateful sh$ts like you.

Brother, who taught you this language? Only God is my saviour and no one else.

Surely you dont expect allah to award those that bash their saviors. Disgusting

Surely, Kufaars are not my saviours.



@Pakhtoon yum @Rafi
I will try to find lecture about it. The 'friends' as mentioned by hadith means friends/well wisher/ a guide of sirat-e-mustaqeem etc etc.... So if you don't have alcohol beverages at your pizza shop (in UK), a true muslim will appreciate it despite your financial loss. But a non-muslim friend with concern tell you to have alcohol to increase the sale. So overall your muslim friend is your 'friend' here bcz he is thinking about qiyamah. Same rules go for Chinese, or US people etc... remember Holy Prohet (SW) did trade with jews and other non muslim and pacts of mutual defence. Yes, we cannot integrate with them but having a healthy relation of respect and understanding is not an issue. You can hang out, play and live with non-muslim people.

Sir, I have clarified and defended my stance in above paragraphs while replying to Sir Araz. I hope it will clarify many misconceptions.
 
Last edited:
.
I am not as learned as you but still can be right as were ashab-e-kahf or the person in Surah Yasin who came running to people to say ' listen to (3) Prophets' as those were not scholars but just know one main right thing.
who appose Allah and His Messenger A.S are abased
oppose= there can be a strong Arabic word for it. like kafir . kafir are people who oppose even after they see miracles. Like Abu Lahab etc who saw moon parting but still didn't believe. So every non-muslim is not kaffir.

This notion is the basis of 'two nation theory'
For sure our ummat is based upon Islam as was during holy Prophet's SW time when His tribes people (Abu lahab, hakam, etc) were enemy but Hz Bilal RZ was in nation=ummah.
And fight against the disbelievers collectively
When it is a matter of fight then fight. Collectively may mean here that even the enemy have people of your tribes or nationality. It was common in early times and even now. Like both sides have rajputs, jatts etc. or any other meaning.
Can you please Quote a verse of Quran or Sahih Ahaades
The general commandment that be good to orphans, widow, maskeen etc are for every religion's orphans, widow etc. Yes, you cannot give Zakat to them but general (nafli) sadqah etc.
O you who have believed, do not take your fathers or your brothers as allies if they have preferred disbelief over belief. And whoever does so among you - then it is those who are the wrongdoers
Same reason that when they are astray they cannot be allies as our objectives are different. Whether in war, commerce, life etc. Yes, it doesn't mean we should break relation with them but they are not our well wisher. It is too common here that kids don't pray here but parents. Husbands despite being worshipper (namazi) gamble (that is debateable). So we mustn't quit relations with them, where possible, but object their wrong doings.
 
.
Why getting upset all I stated are facts you cannot prove me wrong .
Irrelevant facts fascist gtfo

Indeed, we take our guidance from our Hadi Syedi o Maulai Rasool Allah P.B.U.H. We love Him A.S more than any one else and we are committed to stand for his Deen. In the same spirit, we can not love or make friendships with His enemies or the people who rejected his Deen. Friends of Rasool Allah A.S are our friends and His enemies are our enemies. How can any follower of Rasool Allah A.S love or respect enemies of his Syedi o Hadi A.S? When Quran is clearly saying that:


Indeed, those who oppose Allah and His Messenger are abased as those before them were abased. And We have certainly sent down verses of clear evidence. And for the disbelievers is a humiliating punishment. Surah e Mujadla 5


Indeed, the ones who oppose Allah and His Messenger - those will be among the most humbled. Mujadla 20


Quran has given a clear verdict on this matter. Quran being the first source of shariah will be given preference. Quran is saying that those who appose Allah and His Messenger A.S are abased and you people are suggesting that they are respectable and we should love them. Can you quote any verse of Quran in which Quran consider non believers as respectable? As far as I my knowledge of Quran goes, it is suggesting otherwise:


O Prophet, fight against the disbelievers and the hypocrites and be harsh upon them. And their refuge is Hell, and wretched is the destination. Surah e Toba 73


Quran does not distinguish between Pakistani Hindus and Indian Hindus, they belong to the same religion, the same Millat, the same nation. This notion is the basis of 'two nation theory'. The only difference between these two groups of non believers is the fact that Pakistani Hindus have accepted the supremacy of Islamic state and they vowed to remain loyal to this Islamic state. They are enjoying rights of freedom of religion and practice due to this agreement between them and Islamic state.

And fight against the disbelievers collectively as they fight against you collectively. And know that Allah is with the righteous [who fear Him]. Surah e Toba 36

Sir, you have stated rightly that Prophet P.B.U.H had made pacts with non believers and I am not denying this historical fact. However, you have drawn wrong conclusions from this fact like other prominent Muslim leaders who supported congress before partition. Can you please Quote a verse of Quran or Sahih Ahaades where Muslims were being commanded to respect, love or show affection towards non Muslims? You have given the example of pacts and then you just linked it to respect for non Muslims. Sir, I am unable to find any connection between these two things.

I am not advocating or supporting the persecution of Non Muslim Pakistanis. They should be given their due rights with utmost sincerity, they should be protected from persecution and they should be allowed to practice their religion freely. I dont know why you are discussing persecution issue. We dont have any difference of opinion regarding this.

We have to understand the difference between "Muamlaat" and "Mawalaat" with non believers. Islam does not stop Muslims to conduct wordily affairs of day to day life with non Muslims. All of the examples you quoted above are related to these matters. We are allowed to conduct trade with non Muslims, to establish relation with non Islamic states, to sign agreements and to interact in a peaceful way. All of this is permissible until such acts does not damage the interest of Muslims or not going against the basic principles of Shariah. If one or all such acts are opposing the principles of shariah then these "Muamlaat" are also not permissible.

"Mawalaat" with non Muslims is not permissible in any case. They can not be our fiends, they can not be our allies, we cant make love affairs with enemies of Rasool Allah A.S. We can not express or posses feelings of love and affection with non believers. It is prohibited in unambiguous terms in Quran itself:

O you who have believed, do not take your fathers or your brothers as allies if they have preferred disbelief over belief. And whoever does so among you - then it is those who are the wrongdoers.

Say, [O Muhammad], "If your fathers, your sons, your brothers, your wives, your relatives, wealth which you have obtained, commerce wherein you fear decline, and dwellings with which you are pleased are more beloved to you than Allah and His Messenger and jihad in His cause, then wait until Allah executes His command. And Allah does not guide the defiantly disobedient people." Surah e Toba 23, 24

Please also keep in mind that Surah e Toba is among the surahs which were revealed at the last years of Prophetic missions.

Fiqh e Islami also makes a clear distinction between Muamlaat and Mawalaat. Muamlaat are permissible in those cases which are not directly or indirectly hurting the interest of Muslims or not going against the injunctions of shariah. Mawalaat are absolutely non permissible, in any case or form. These principles are also discussed and accepted by Islamic jurist in books like Radul Mukhtar, Jamae Ramooz, hidaya, bahr ur Raiq, Fath ul Qadeer, kaafi, tabayun, jamae Sagheer, Ghaya tul Bayan, ghuniya and maeraj ud daraya.

Jurist have further divided Mawalaat into various categories like Mawalat e Haqeeqi and Mawalaat e sauriya. These categories and their Ahkaam can be seen in above mentioned books. I am intentionally skipping the detail because then the discussion would become more complex.

Moreover, this debate is not a new one. Ulma e Rabaniyeen have already settled this issue when they rejected the arguments of some pro Congress Muslim leaders during the khilafat movement.

You have quoted the words of our Habeeb e Kareem A.S and the example of Adi ibn e Muttim without quoting references. Nevertheless, your example is just suggesting that Prophet A.S was returning the favour to a person who provided Him a shelter. Can this example and verses of Quran with clear and unambiguous verdicts be compared? For example in Surah e Fatah - which was also revealed in last years of Prophetic mission - Quran is highlighting the attributes of Ashab un Nabi:

Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah ; and those with him are forceful against the disbelievers, merciful among themselves. Surah e Fatah 29

Now Sir, Quran is saying that Ashab e Rasool were forceful against the disbelievers and you are suggesting that we should be gentle with them. I am finding clear contradictions between your statements and the word of God.

I never raised any objections to the humane behaviour of Muslims towards their Zimmis. I am infect a great admirer of this behaviour.



Muslims who joined Kafirs are still Muslims. Their treachery to the right cause make them traitors, defectors but not Kafirs. We will fight these traitors and will punish them for leaving the right cause. Nonetheless, a kafir and a non practicing or a bad Muslim can not become equal. Kafir is a kafir and can not be compared with a Muslim.


I never made such claims. However, I pray that may God lift me with Muslims and may God grant me a place alongside believers.

The path of those upon whom You have bestowed favor, not of those who have evoked [Your] anger or of those who are astray. Fatiha 7



Brother, who taught you this language? Only God is my saviour and no one else.



Surely, Kufaars are not my saviours.





Sir, I have clarified and defended my stance in above paragraphs while replying to Sir Araz. I hope it will clarify many misconceptions.
The reason why your still breathing is fact to that those "kaffirs" in the PA gave their lives to save your ungrateful arse. @waz what in the hell is this sh$t?

@Pakhtoon yum @Rafi
I will try to find lecture about it. The 'friends' as mentioned by hadith means friends/well wisher/ a guide of sirat-e-mustaqeem etc etc.... So if you don't have alcohol beverages at your pizza shop (in UK), a true muslim will appreciate it despite your financial loss. But a non-muslim friend with concern tell you to have alcohol to increase the sale. So overall your muslim friend is your 'friend' here bcz he is thinking about qiyamah. Same rules go for Chinese, or US people etc... remember Holy Prohet (SW) did trade with jews and other non muslim and pacts of mutual defence. Yes, we cannot integrate with them but having a healthy relation of respect and understanding is not an issue. You can hang out, play and live with non-muslim people.
Islam emphasizes on humanity above anything else. Its disgusting to read the bs by @Mutakalim
 
.
Indeed, we take our guidance from our Hadi Syedi o Maulai Rasool Allah P.B.U.H. We love Him A.S more than any one else and we are committed to stand for his Deen. In the same spirit, we can not love or make friendships with His enemies or the people who rejected his Deen. Friends of Rasool Allah A.S are our friends and His enemies are our enemies. How can any follower of Rasool Allah A.S love or respect enemies of his Syedi o Hadi A.S? When Quran is clearly saying that:


Indeed, those who oppose Allah and His Messenger are abased as those before them were abased. And We have certainly sent down verses of clear evidence. And for the disbelievers is a humiliating punishment. Surah e Mujadla 5


Indeed, the ones who oppose Allah and His Messenger - those will be among the most humbled. Mujadla 20


Quran has given a clear verdict on this matter. Quran being the first source of shariah will be given preference. Quran is saying that those who appose Allah and His Messenger A.S are abased and you people are suggesting that they are respectable and we should love them. Can you quote any verse of Quran in which Quran consider non believers as respectable? As far as I my knowledge of Quran goes, it is suggesting otherwise:


O Prophet, fight against the disbelievers and the hypocrites and be harsh upon them. And their refuge is Hell, and wretched is the destination. Surah e Toba 73


Quran does not distinguish between Pakistani Hindus and Indian Hindus, they belong to the same religion, the same Millat, the same nation. This notion is the basis of 'two nation theory'. The only difference between these two groups of non believers is the fact that Pakistani Hindus have accepted the supremacy of Islamic state and they vowed to remain loyal to this Islamic state. They are enjoying rights of freedom of religion and practice due to this agreement between them and Islamic state.

And fight against the disbelievers collectively as they fight against you collectively. And know that Allah is with the righteous [who fear Him]. Surah e Toba 36

Sir, you have stated rightly that Prophet P.B.U.H had made pacts with non believers and I am not denying this historical fact. However, you have drawn wrong conclusions from this fact like other prominent Muslim leaders who supported congress before partition. Can you please Quote a verse of Quran or Sahih Ahaades where Muslims were being commanded to respect, love or show affection towards non Muslims? You have given the example of pacts and then you just linked it to respect for non Muslims. Sir, I am unable to find any connection between these two things.

I am not advocating or supporting the persecution of Non Muslim Pakistanis. They should be given their due rights with utmost sincerity, they should be protected from persecution and they should be allowed to practice their religion freely. I dont know why you are discussing persecution issue. We dont have any difference of opinion regarding this.

We have to understand the difference between "Muamlaat" and "Mawalaat" with non believers. Islam does not stop Muslims to conduct wordily affairs of day to day life with non Muslims. All of the examples you quoted above are related to these matters. We are allowed to conduct trade with non Muslims, to establish relation with non Islamic states, to sign agreements and to interact in a peaceful way. All of this is permissible until such acts does not damage the interest of Muslims or not going against the basic principles of Shariah. If one or all such acts are opposing the principles of shariah then these "Muamlaat" are also not permissible.

"Mawalaat" with non Muslims is not permissible in any case. They can not be our fiends, they can not be our allies, we cant make love affairs with enemies of Rasool Allah A.S. We can not express or posses feelings of love and affection with non believers. It is prohibited in unambiguous terms in Quran itself:

O you who have believed, do not take your fathers or your brothers as allies if they have preferred disbelief over belief. And whoever does so among you - then it is those who are the wrongdoers.

Say, [O Muhammad], "If your fathers, your sons, your brothers, your wives, your relatives, wealth which you have obtained, commerce wherein you fear decline, and dwellings with which you are pleased are more beloved to you than Allah and His Messenger and jihad in His cause, then wait until Allah executes His command. And Allah does not guide the defiantly disobedient people." Surah e Toba 23, 24

Please also keep in mind that Surah e Toba is among the surahs which were revealed at the last years of Prophetic missions.

Fiqh e Islami also makes a clear distinction between Muamlaat and Mawalaat. Muamlaat are permissible in those cases which are not directly or indirectly hurting the interest of Muslims or not going against the injunctions of shariah. Mawalaat are absolutely non permissible, in any case or form. These principles are also discussed and accepted by Islamic jurist in books like Radul Mukhtar, Jamae Ramooz, hidaya, bahr ur Raiq, Fath ul Qadeer, kaafi, tabayun, jamae Sagheer, Ghaya tul Bayan, ghuniya and maeraj ud daraya.

Jurist have further divided Mawalaat into various categories like Mawalat e Haqeeqi and Mawalaat e sauriya. These categories and their Ahkaam can be seen in above mentioned books. I am intentionally skipping the detail because then the discussion would become more complex.

Moreover, this debate is not a new one. Ulma e Rabaniyeen have already settled this issue when they rejected the arguments of some pro Congress Muslim leaders during the khilafat movement.

You have quoted the words of our Habeeb e Kareem A.S and the example of Adi ibn e Muttim without quoting references. Nevertheless, your example is just suggesting that Prophet A.S was returning the favour to a person who provided Him a shelter. Can this example and verses of Quran with clear and unambiguous verdicts be compared? For example in Surah e Fatah - which was also revealed in last years of Prophetic mission - Quran is highlighting the attributes of Ashab un Nabi:

Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah ; and those with him are forceful against the disbelievers, merciful among themselves. Surah e Fatah 29

Now Sir, Quran is saying that Ashab e Rasool were forceful against the disbelievers and you are suggesting that we should be gentle with them. I am finding clear contradictions between your statements and the word of God.

I never raised any objections to the humane behaviour of Muslims towards their Zimmis. I am infect a great admirer of this behaviour.



Muslims who joined Kafirs are still Muslims. Their treachery to the right cause make them traitors, defectors but not Kafirs. We will fight these traitors and will punish them for leaving the right cause. Nonetheless, a kafir and a non practicing or a bad Muslim can not become equal. Kafir is a kafir and can not be compared with a Muslim.


I never made such claims. However, I pray that may God lift me with Muslims and may God grant me a place alongside believers.

The path of those upon whom You have bestowed favor, not of those who have evoked [Your] anger or of those who are astray. Fatiha 7



Brother, who taught you this language? Only God is my saviour and no one else.



Surely, Kufaars are not my saviours.





Sir, I have clarified and defended my stance in above paragraphs while replying to Sir Araz. I hope it will clarify many misconceptions.

The Pakistani Christian pilots who fought toe for toe with India over the course of Pakistan's history are our brothers in arms, over some Indian bootlicker who curses Pakistan every day.
 
.
The Pakistani Christian pilots who fought toe for toe with India over the course of Pakistan's history are our brothers in arms, over some Indian bootlicker who curses Pakistan every day.
He'd rather get bombed and his family killed then have it saved by him. This is truly a disgusting creature.
 
. . .
@waz @Mutakalim @Pakhtoon yum
He has explained his point of view in detail in next posts so don't tag him from previous posts. The non-muslims who fought for us deserve our gratitude and respect. They are our mohsin and shaheed like any other hero (hero is independent of religion so Shaheed title is legit in that sense). It is totally right (give credit where credit is due) as Hz Musa acknowledged Firoun upbringing and favours but not his regime.

The muslims who are bootlicking Indian govt are still our brother but deserve double punishment. As they know who is right but still aligning with wrong (talking about who sell nation/religion for personal gains say Mir Jaffar type etc).

As IArmy muslims, they are enemy as per professional/political/war sense. They have to be killed/captured in action when needed but no one can take their brotherhood from ummah.

Same goes for Pakistani Muslims who fight with us, for any reason, are brother/countrymen but enemy too. They deserve too double punishment.
 
Last edited:
. .
@araz @Signalian
short.. plz watch.. where they explain weapons especially

There is just one weapon, an assault rifle, rest are gadgets used for monitoring. If India Army still reports that infiltration is occurring from Pakistan's side, then whats the use of all such equipment.

Take Pulwama for example, Indian Army is using Thermal imagers, quad copters, scopes of different kinds, IR torches, IR halogens, listening devices and sensors detecting movement and T/I camera with remote access on LOC. Even then Pakistan managed to infiltrate explosive material successfully ?

Bharti sena ko chulo bhar paani mein doob marna chaiye !

Surely, Kufaars are not my saviours.
Not yours perhaps, however Pakistan's yes and thats what matters.

The Pakistani Christian pilots who fought toe for toe with India over the course of Pakistan's history are our brothers in arms, over some Indian bootlicker who curses Pakistan every day.
Pakistan Armed Forces has awarded Gallantry medals (at least 2 Military medals) to following NON-MUSLIM Military Personnel:

Air Vice Marshal Eric Gordon Hall
Major General Julian Peter
Air Vice Marshal Michael John O’Brien
Air Commodore Nazir Latif
Squadron Leader Peter Christy
Wing Commander Mervyn Leslie Middlecoat
Cecil Chaudhary
Rear-Admiral Leslie Norman Mungavin

Pakistan Salutes them for their services to Pakistan and its Armed Forces.
flag.jpg
 
.

Latest posts

Back
Top Bottom