Indian Armies gun arsenal to be revived in big way

[The Huskar]

2017 is the year for the first prototype now,Bw that project has nothing to do with this purchase.They will also be iinducted whenever they get ready.

I was referring to the purchase of towed artillery guns not the self propelled ones.

 

[sancho]

1) BAE Systems teamed with Mahindra Defence offering the FH-77BW L52 Archer,
LIVEFIST: 4th Time Lucky? Army Floats Wheeled Gun Bid
Broadsword: BAE-Mahindras apprehend retendering for 155 mm towed guns: "Rs 8000 cr artillery gun tender might fail again"
TRISHUL: July 2013

2)Krauss Maffei-Wegmann teamed with Ashok Leyland offering the 22.5-tonne AGM (on a 6 x 6 truck)
Ashok Leyland defence arm ties up with Krauss-Maffei - Indian Express
KMW Team with Ashok Leyland to Offer Armored Vehicles in India, and ABroad | Defense Update:

The Mahindra / BAE JV was scrapped and Mahindra bought back the BAE share and the KMW / Ashok Leyland JV was more for a licence production of the complete package, that's why they showed models of the PZH2000 or Donar, rather than a truck based version, which so far was not even realized with German trucks, most likely because the gun module is simply too heavy for a 6 x 6. I'm not even sure if that JV is still on, since there was no news on that since 2012, neither from the Indian nor the German side, while the recent reports suggest that Ashok Leyland has teamed up with L&T and Nexter for the CAESAR, so I wouldn't bet on the old JV's anymore.

The possible JVs back then included...

Defexpo 2012 aftermath – Self-propelled howitzers


And the recent proposal of KMW for their Donar / AGM howitzer as a wheeled alternative was this:

Which then also would be the likely offer to India now, especially since we have tested the same gun in trials in India earlier, based on a Denel G6 platform, which was heavier than many of the currently proposed tracked howitzers, so this new one would be lighter than the earlier offer, but still heavier than most truck based offers.
I still think the German gun is the best choice for us, but it's unclear if it could be fitted on a truck, especially on one of the Indian trucks that are available at the moment.

 

[Daedalus]

The Mahindra / BAE JV was scrapped and Mahindra bought back the BAE share and the KMW / Ashok Leyland JV was more for a licence production of the complete package, that's why they showed models of the PZH2000 or Donar, rather than a truck based version, which so far was not even realized with German trucks, most likely because the gun module is simply too heavy for a 6 x 6. I'm not even sure if that JV is still on, since there was no news on that since 2012, neither from the Indian nor the German side, while the recent reports suggest that Ashok Leyland has teamed up with L&T and Nexter for the CAESAR, so I wouldn't bet on the old JV's anymore.

The possible JVs back then included...

Defexpo 2012 aftermath – Self-propelled howitzers


And the recent proposal of KMW for their Donar / AGM howitzer as a wheeled alternative was this:
View attachment 155818

Which then also would be the likely offer to India now, especially since we have tested the same gun in trials in India earlier, based on a Denel G6 platform, which was heavier than many of the currently proposed tracked howitzers.
I still think the German gun is the best choice for us, but it's unclear if it could be fitted on a truck, especially on one of the Indian trucks that are available at the moment.

Those are old articles, some even from 2010. Even the author was also speculating. He has clearly mentioned that those could be the "likely respondents".
About the JV, the mahindra website still states that they are in JV with BAE, maybe they forgot to update it.
Defence Land Systems

 

[mike2000]

Likely contenders are
1) Nexter Systems teamed with Larsen & Toubro (offering the Caesar),
View attachment 155290

2)BAE Systems teamed with Mahindra Defence offering the FH-77BW L52 Archer,
View attachment 155292

3)Serbia’s Yugoimport SDPR teamed with Punj Lloyd offering the Nora-B52K1,
View attachment 155293

4)Krauss Maffei-Wegmann teamed with Ashok Leyland offering the 22.5-tonne AGM (on a 6 x 6 truck),
View attachment 155291

5)DENEL Land Systems teamed with TATA Power SED offering a customised version of the T-5-52 Mk2000 Condor.
View attachment 155294

India should go for our BAE Archer , they are the best of its kind out there.

 

[mike2000]

Useless waste of Money.Having weapons is suited to first world countries.Third world countries should first concentrate on decreasing poverty rather then spending money on this junk.

loool Well, ideally that will indeed be correct. But we live in an uncertain/unfair world, where a single billionaire like Bill gates alone is worth much more than what is needed to end hunger on earth and feed all the hungry people in this world. So the world is unfair to be begin with. Nothing is the way is suppose to be, so i dont see why you are talking about India should first concentrate on improving its living standards/decreasing poverty. Yes they should focus on this ideally, but they also have to buy weapons to maintain a state of parity/stability vis a vis their bigger/more powerful neighbour in the north and tackle their smaller ennemy in the west. Though to be honest, being a nuclear power, i dont see any country attacking them.lool But then again this is the world we live in, nothing is fair to be begin with. If you had said India should instead invest this money in their own defence industries etc, then i would have completely agree with you.But then again, they dont have the capabilitirs to produce one that is on par with those we have/offer. So they will always want to go for the best in this case.

 

[Daedalus]

India should go for our BAE Archer , they are the best of its kind out there.

Lets see who responds to the RFI, and how the trails go. As for the Archer, as sancho has pointed out, BAE has no Indian partner after it parted ways with mahindra. They will have to form a JV first.

 

[Water Car Engineer]

Likely contenders are
1) Nexter Systems teamed with Larsen & Toubro (offering the Caesar),
View attachment 155290
4)Krauss Maffei-Wegmann teamed with Ashok Leyland offering the 22.5-tonne AGM (on a 6 x 6 truck),
View attachment 155291

Where did you get this? LT, Ashok, Nexter are working together in this bid.

Nexter, L&T and Ashok Leyland forms consortium for Indian Army's MGS programme | Business Standard News

 

[Daedalus]

Where did you get this? LT, Ashok, Nexter are working together in this bid.

Nexter, L&T and Ashok Leyland forms consortium for Indian Army's MGS programme | Business Standard News

Sancho already has pointed that out to me.

 

[sancho]

Those are old articles, some even from 2010. Even the author was also speculating. He has clearly mentioned that those could be the "likely respondents".
About the JV, the mahindra website still states that they are in JV with BAE, maybe they forgot to update it.
Defence Land Systems

Check the link once again, because it says:

Defense Land Systems India formerly a joint venture with BAE Systems

Here the statement to the end of the JV:

Statement on Mahindra and Mahindra and BAE Systems Joint Venture

 

[Mike_Brando]

Towed : 414 FH 77B ,1200 M 46 (these are actually field guns and not howitzers by the way) and unknown number of D 36 and IFGs.Can't say about SP.

Well actually we operate around 200 FH-77B and around 180 Soltam Metamorphosis howitzers at present.The field artillery consists of 1200 or so M-46,around 600 D-30,approx.1700 I.F.G.,around 700+ L.F.G.,300-400 M-101,200 or so M-48 75 mm mountain gun,100 or so S-23,unknown quantity of Sprut-A2A45 Towed guns,80 or so FV433 Abbot SPH,110 Gvozdika SPH and around 100 M-46 Catapult SPH.

 

[Omega007]

Well actually we operate around 200 FH-77B and around 180 Soltam Metamorphosis howitzers at present.The field artillery consists of 1200 or so M-46,around 600 D-30,approx.1700 I.F.G.,around 700+ L.F.G.,300-400 M-101,200 or so M-48 75 mm mountain gun,100 or so S-23,unknown quantity of Sprut-A2A45 Towed guns,80 or so FV433 Abbot SPH,110 Gvozdika SPH and around 100 M-46 Catapult SPH.

Well,as per my info,the number of the IFGs in India Army arsenal should be more than that of 1700 pieces.Rests are quite on the mark though.

 

[Echo_419]

India should go for our BAE Archer , they are the best of its kind out there.

I have a strong feeling the Frenchies are gonna win this thing
they have partnered with the est possible companies out there L&T & Ashok Leyland

 

[Mike_Brando]

Well,as per my info,the number of the IFGs in India Army arsenal should be more than that of 1700 pieces.Rests are quite on the mark though.

Well the figure may be anything between 1700-2500 pieces excluding the L.F.G. I only posted the figures which are available in the public.The thing is no matter how many I.F.G./L.F.G. we have in our arsenal it doesn't change the fact that they are short ranged and lack the punch needed for counter artillery fire and area saturation.

 

[Omega007]

Well the figure may be anything between 1700-2500 pieces excluding the L.F.G. I only posted the figures which are available in the public.The thing is no matter how many I.F.G./L.F.G. we have in our arsenal it doesn't change the fact that they are short ranged and lack the punch needed for counter artillery fire and area saturation.

Well,not totally true since these guns have longer range compared to the Chinese 122mm D 30 howitzers deployed along the LAC.Besides,even if we manage to get the M 777 ultra light howitzers,still there would be a need for the smaller IFGs since you can not deploy the bigger ones every where on the mountainous regions due to lack of space.That is why,NATO still continues to use their own 105mm guns in mountainous regions.
By the way,I think the Metamorphosis project should be revived since India is no longer dependent on Soltam for the 155mm L/45 barrels and if the ~1200 odd M 46 can be upgunned,it could provide a tremendous boost to the Indian Army's towed artillery arm till the ATAGS becomes available.

 

[sathya]

How much will the ammunition cost ? Smart munition technology will be transferred . .?