Indian Air Force News & Discussions

[jha]

Indian Air Force completes trails of basic trainer aircraft

The Indian Air Force (IAF) has completed trails of five aircraft shortlisted for the basic trainer contract and the evaluation report is expected to be submitted to the MoD by the end of December or early January. The five aircraft which participated in the trials are the American Hawker Beechcraft T-6C, the Pilatus PC-7 MkII, the Korean Aerospace Industries KT-1, EADS PZL-130 Orlik TC-II from Poland and Grob 120TP from Germany.


The trails were conducted at the Jamnagar Air Base in Gujarat and included flights by the IAF instructor-pilots for a period of five days each till the end of October. The acquisition of the basic trainer aircraft is an urgent procurement to make up the grounding of the HPT-32 Deepak basic trainers manufactured by Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL). A total of 75 aircraft are to be procured from abroad.

The trainer aircraft procurement process started only during the first quarter of this year and bids were submitted by seven aircraft manufacturers in response to an RFI. The final five which participated in the trails were downselected and an RFP issued to them. The IAF expects to start receiving the aircraft within six months of the award of contract.

The IAF is under pressure to speed up the acquisition process as its basic training has been undermined ever since the HPT-32 trainers were grounded in July 2009 after 17 crashes. Indian media has reported that an entire batch of Indian Air Force trainee pilots graduated without the basic 24-week training on ad-initio propeller trainers.

The pilots are being trained on the newly procured BAE Systems Hawks but this too had suffered due to a delay in delivery of parts by BAE Systems. However, the issue was resolved at the time of the follow-on contract for an additional 57 Hawk jet trainers signed earlier this year.

The contract hopefuls are expected to be present at Aero India 2011.

Indian Air Force completes trails of basic trainer aircraft : Defense news

 

[sancho]

Boeing is also planning to bring a wide range of aircraft, which include the F/A-18 Super Hornet, one of the contenders for the multi-medium role combat aircraft deal.

They attended AI this year too and it was reported before, that they will come in 2011 again.

Indian Air Force completes trails of basic trainer aircraft

The Indian Air Force (IAF) has completed trails of five aircraft shortlisted for the basic trainer contract and the evaluation report is expected to be submitted to the MoD by the end of December or early January. The five aircraft which participated in the trials are the American Hawker Beechcraft T-6C, the Pilatus PC-7 MkII, the Korean Aerospace Industries KT-1, EADS PZL-130 Orlik TC-II from Poland and Grob 120TP from Germany.

Interesting, as expected no Finmecca jet trainer, but surprising is that no Embraer Tucanos are available anymore.

 

[jha]

They attended AI this year too and it was reported before, that they will come in 2011 again.




Interesting, as expected no Finmecca jet trainer, but surprising is that no Embraer Tucanos are available anymore.

Surprising indeed..

In this lot i support Grob120..very cost effective and there are chances that the production line will be moved to india and HAL will become partner in global sales..

 

[sancho]

Surprising indeed..

In this lot i support Grob120..very cost effective and there are chances that the production line will be moved to india and HAL will become partner in global sales..

Then you might find this interesting too (google translated):

Grob Aircraft: successful presentation in India, new equipment in the UK

2010-11-25

More than 25,000 km laid the Grob G 120 TP back to present to the trainer in India for military flight training as part of a large tender and demonstrate its performance in flight demonstrations. In Swabia on the way from the Indian subcontinent and return the plane made in several countries station there, too present its flight characteristics. In Great Britain the mandate is given to equip the trainers there used G 115 E fleet with new, powerful collision warning systems.

Around the globe, the Grob training aircraft Aircraft in service and other forces interested in the purchase of the aircraft, especially in its new version of a turboprop. In a large tender India seeks new training aircraft and has also coarse Aircraft invited to present the new coach G 120 TP live.

Together with a Cessna Caravan, the aircraft was on its way to India and was able to impress in flying displays. "We have a large range of G demonstrate 120 TP successfully and are very optimistic that we are now in the next step in the short selection for the new training aircraft of Indian Air Force," summarizes the company's CEO, Johann Heitzmann, the initial results and responses together.

On the way back, the coach made several station in order in the Middle East to introduce its flight characteristics and demonstrate. The aircraft manufacturer from Mattsies is on several tenders worldwide in the race and hopes that soon other nations on the list of customers for rough training aircraft can be set.

Grob Aircraft: erfolgreiche Präsentation in Indien, neue Ausrüstung in Großbritannien - GROB Aircraft


It will be interesting how such a small vendor will be able to compete against EADS, Kawasaki, or Beechcraft.

 

[jha]

^^ I know this has the least chance of getting selected..But still i favor this..

 

[AIRFORCE BRAT]

MILITARY AVIATION AND AEROSPACE NEWS: Indian Air Force completes trails of basic trainer aircraft

Indian Air Force completes
trails of basic trainer aircraft SOURCE : Defenseworld.net The Indian Air Force (IAF) has
completed trails of five aircraft
shortlisted for the basic trainer
contract and the evaluation
report is expected to be
submitted to the MoD by the end of December or early
January. The five aircraft
which participated in the trials
are the American Hawker
Beechcraft T-6C, the Pilatus
PC-7 MkII, the Korean Aerospace Industries KT-1,
EADS PZL-130 Orlik TC-II from
Poland and Grob 120TP from
Germany.
The trails were conducted at
the Jamnagar Air Base in Gujarat and included flights by
the IAF instructor-pilots for a
period of five days each till the
end of October. The acquisition
of the basic trainer aircraft is
an urgent procurement to make up the grounding of the
HPT-32 Deepak basic trainers
manufactured by Hindustan
Aeronautics Limited (HAL). A
total of 75 aircraft are to be
procured from abroad. The trainer aircraft
procurement process started
only during the first quarter of
this year and bids were
submitted by seven aircraft
manufacturers in response to an RFI. The final five which
participated in the trails were
downselected and an RFP
issued to them. The IAF
expects to start receiving the
aircraft within six months of the award of contract.
The IAF is under pressure to
speed up the acquisition
process as its basic training has
been undermined ever since
the HPT-32 trainers were grounded in July 2009 after 17
crashes. Indian media has
reported that an entire batch
of Indian Air Force trainee
pilots graduated without the
basic 24-week training on ad- initio propeller trainers.
The pilots are being trained on
the newly procured BAE
Systems Hawks but this too
had suffered due to a delay in
delivery of parts by BAE Systems. However, the issue
was resolved at the time of
the follow-on contract for an
additional 57 Hawk jet trainers
signed earlier this year.
The contract hopefuls are expected to be present at Aero
India 2011

 

[AIRFORCE BRAT]

Self delete...

 

[AMCA]

Any Idea when IJT sitara is Entering Service??

 

[AIRFORCE BRAT]

Any Idea when IJT sitara is Entering Service??

don't know but i think its going under some stablity test in russia due to some problem due to their engine AL-56..

 

[AMCA]

don't know but i think its going under some stablity test in russia due to some problem due to their engine AL-56..

hmnnn I see, it is indeed a stunning aircraft, and HAL must make it ready within 2012 for the market to not slip away from India...

 

[AIRFORCE BRAT]

yes! But 12 pre production are stated to induct by june next year.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Indian Air Force completes trails of basic trainer aircraft

The Indian Air Force (IAF) has completed trails of five aircraft shortlisted for the basic trainer contract and the evaluation report is expected to be submitted to the MoD by the end of December or early January. The five aircraft which participated in the trials are the American Hawker Beechcraft T-6C, the Pilatus PC-7 MkII, the Korean Aerospace Industries KT-1, EADS PZL-130 Orlik TC-II from Poland and Grob 120TP from Germany.


The trails were conducted at the Jamnagar Air Base in Gujarat and included flights by the IAF instructor-pilots for a period of five days each till the end of October. The acquisition of the basic trainer aircraft is an urgent procurement to make up the grounding of the HPT-32 Deepak basic trainers manufactured by Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL). A total of 75 aircraft are to be procured from abroad.

The trainer aircraft procurement process started only during the first quarter of this year and bids were submitted by seven aircraft manufacturers in response to an RFI. The final five which participated in the trails were downselected and an RFP issued to them. The IAF expects to start receiving the aircraft within six months of the award of contract.

The IAF is under pressure to speed up the acquisition process as its basic training has been undermined ever since the HPT-32 trainers were grounded in July 2009 after 17 crashes. Indian media has reported that an entire batch of Indian Air Force trainee pilots graduated without the basic 24-week training on ad-initio propeller trainers.

The pilots are being trained on the newly procured BAE Systems Hawks but this too had suffered due to a delay in delivery of parts by BAE Systems. However, the issue was resolved at the time of the follow-on contract for an additional 57 Hawk jet trainers signed earlier this year.

The contract hopefuls are expected to be present at Aero India 2011.

Indian Air Force completes trails of basic trainer aircraft : Defense news

Apropos of nothing - this is a rant, so please do not read further unless you have your hobbyhorse filters on! - it is a pity that we cannot have any kind of basic indigenous development for even aircraft like this.

Surely seventy odd years of work is sufficient to build some basic capability in metal-forming, use of composites, assembling of instruments, engine design and aerodynamic design, enough to build a blessed basic trainer! This is not control system stuff; the irony being that we successfully developed flight control systems which work very well indeed, and we find ourselves reaching for global alternatives for this entry level technology. Is it me, or is there some contradiction somewhere?

Look at the numbers involved.

This basic aircraft is not just a basic entry level trainer, it is also a small air-taxi, potentially (with some ruggedisation and some reinforcement, possibly a higher duty cycle engine) a crop-dusting vehicle, a light observation vehicle for the gunners (until UAVs take over the role completely) and simply a flying machine of affordable price which flying clubs can put at the disposal of its members.

Beyond this is an infinite vista of possibilities: larger passenger aircraft, turbo-jet versions of all the prop planes, light transport aircraft for tactical intervention, all the way up to the big ticket items that make the international press as mouth-watering news.

So why are we buying these even now?

 

[Joe Shearer]

Lockheed offsets mock MoD norms

Lockheed offsets mock MoD norms

US defence major Lockheed Martin’s offset proposals, arising from its sale to India of six C-130J Super Hercules transport aircraft for $962 million (about Rs 3,835 crore), are seen by some defence ministry officials as violating provisions of the offsets policy. They say they make a mockery of the ministry’s stated aim of promoting an indigenous defence industry.

Lockheed Martin’s $275-million offset offer was proposed on November 21 and cleared by the defence ministry. However, several ministry officials fear that allowing Lockheed Martin to bypass offset liabilities would invite similar disregard by other vendors.




The largest component of Lockheed Martin’s offset offer is a $121-million proposal to import and operate a “weapons system trainer” (WST), which is a simulator on which instructors from Mahindra & Mahindra will train Indian Air Force (IAF) crews of the C-130J.

The first shocker is the cost of the WST, one of four simulators needed to train C-130J aircrews. For this piece of hardware alone, Lockheed Martin is claiming offsets credit worth $121 million, almost 45 per cent of its entire offset liability.


DOG FIGHT
Offset
proposal Value
($ mn) Defence ministry
guideline
Manufacture of RFID
components 119 Does not qualify as not
military hardware
Simulator import 48 Straight imports cannot be
treated as offsets
Contracts to M&M 55 Relates to import (of simulator)
Aircraft engine
design services 20 Eligible only for military engines
Technology transfer 15 No provision
F-16 avionics 15 Eligible for offset components
Travel savings 3 Not permissible


This has been possible because the IAF, for reasons unknown, did not include simulators while actually purchasing the C-130J. Had the WST been part of the C-130J contract, Lockheed Martin would have been liable — in accordance with Defence Offset Policy, a part of the Defence Procurement Procedure of 2008 (DPP-2008) — to pay 30 per cent of the cost of the simulator as offset.

Pushpinder Singh, a noted aerospace expert and editor of Vayu magazine, points out: “Simulators are vital for training crewpersons. That is why every buyer of aircraft includes training simulators in the primary contract. That benefits the buyer because the vendor becomes liable for offsets for the simulator as well.”

Responding to an emailed query from Business Standard, Lockheed Martin confirmed:

“The requirement for a WST was not included under the letter of request for the C-130J issued by the government of India in December 2006. Lockheed Martin chose to include a WST in its offset proposal… The government agreed with our view and approved the proposed offset project after negotiations.”

When contacted by Business Standard for a comment on IAF’s actions, the defence ministry did not respond.

Considered individually, almost every component of Lockheed Martin’s simulator offset proposal violates the defence ministry’s policy. Take, for instance, offset credit for $48 million to directly import the simulator, which will be installed in Hindon outside Delhi and operated by M&M, Lockheed Martin’s Indian offset partner.

Straight imports of defence equipment cannot be treated as offsets under defence offset policy. Lockheed Martin, however, claims: “Direct foreign investment is permitted as an offset under the terms of the DPP. The milestone credits for the WST project are based on direct foreign investment in India, which results in the provision of aircrew training facilities and capabilities.”

This, say offset experts, is factually incorrect. Para 2.1(b) of the offset policy permits “direct foreign investment for industrial infrastructure for services...” But the policy defines “services” as “maintenance, overhaul, upgrades, life extension, engineering, design, testing of defence products, defence related software or quality assurance services”. What is being provided in this case is a ready-built simulator.

Lockheed Martin’s other offset proposals have rung alarm bells within the ministry. They include offset credit of US $20 million for “aircraft engine design services” with Bangalore-based engineering firm QuEST. This would only be treatable as an offset if the design services were for military engines, but there is no way of ensuring that.

It has proposed offset credit of $15 million for “manufacture of F-16 avionics components” with Tata Power. While this would indeed be eligible for offsets, Tata Power confirms that there is no ongoing dialogue with Lockheed Martin.

Finally, a whopping offset credit of $119 million for “manufacture of RFID components” with Bharat Electronics. RFID components are not military equipment under the DPP-2008, and this manufacture does not qualify for offsets.

Worried by such violations of the offset policy, the defence ministry is carrying out a major review. But the Indian defence industry, which was supposed to benefit from offsets, is concerned that instead of tightening policy, the ministry is poised to create further loopholes that would benefit foreign vendors.

This is just one more chapter in the pathetic story of our refusal to take an integrated training establishment seriously. Right from the time of the Abdul Kalam report (the COFA report), the simulator gap has been pointed out to whoever will listen, again and again and again. Fact is, nobody is listening. So simulators remain afterthoughts, without considering the huge, almost incalculable savings that they represent. Not even the Air Force seems to be listening; one would imagine that by now, every MiG 21 base in the country should have had a couple of full function simulators, ensuring that no pilot ever goes more than a day or two without a real or a simulated sortie. Against this, for people in the know who are reading this, the actual numbers deployed are frighteningly low.

Meanwhile, only three establishments in the west was specailised in making simulators. My information is that at least one of them, a British subsidiary of BAe, has gone to the wall; the other two now enjoy almost a monopoly position, and it is difficult to get reasonable prices from them. We had a chance to pick up the entire Bristol-based establishment; did we do anything about it?

No prizes for guessing the answer.

 

[sudhir007]

don't know but i think its going under some stablity test in russia due to some problem due to their engine AL-56..

Sorry it Saturn AL-55I(16.9 kN of thrust (thrust-to-weight ratio of 5.59)) not AL-56

 

[sancho]

^^ I know this has the least chance of getting selected..But still i favor this..

I wouldn't mind more German stuff too, but when you see that we have to induct these trainers as fast as possible, bigger vendors should be more capable, not to mention that they have more political assistance.