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Rubbish , the Germans were surrounded due to bad strategy. The crucial failing they had was attacking the soviet union without the British. that's why they lost the war, they over extended themselves to early, and their allies had no where near the same capabilities as the Germans ...
You get my post wrong! I didn't said the tanks were the reason why Germany lost the war, because Hitlers failed tactic of fighting Russia and Britain at the same time was, but that technological superior Tiger tanks, could not stand against higher numbers of lower tech Russian tanks. The Germans wasn't able to produce Tigers in the same rate as the Russians could produce their tanks, because they were cheaper and easier to produce and although 1 tiger could take out several of them, they were replaced fast.

The point here is, that technological superiority, can be countered with numerical superiority too. That's why I said, we have to focus on both!
We don't have to match PLAAF exactly one on one, but must have quality fighters in numbers for a real deterance. Imo MMRCA and FGFA must

In the end the WWII ended with one side gaining clear technological dominance , with the US dropping the A-bomb .

WWII proved the victor would always be the one with more. technology.
That's not correct! Actually even at the end of the war, the Germans was technological superior what V2 missiles, the first jet fighters, or helicopter clearly proves. But they were totally outnumbered, lacked in supply of fuel and numbers of arms that could be produced and must fight on several borders at the same time.

Let me say one thing bluntly , we cant compete with the PLAAF in terms of numbers, their military budget it 3x ours...
...Our advantage has to be qualitative , we need a clear technological leg up over China . This is the only option we have, our force multipliers need to be our main focus.

First of all, I agree that we can't compete on numbers, but if they also pay clearly more for military, how do you expect us to get a clear technological edge over them?
Not going to happen imo, because they are the only country in the world who is, or will be able to take on the US and they are in front of us in technological terms. All we can do is to catch up and use the advantages of using foreign techs, that they don't have.

However, my point was we must focus on both quality and numbers, which doesn't meant 1000s of costly 5. gen fighters. I only say we need a bigger fleet of high level fighters to balance the numerical superiority of PLAAF.
The USAF for example have a high low mix of maybe 25% of top level fighters only (F15/F22) and lower level fighters in numbers. PLAAF goes the same way with J10 in and J11 at the moment. IAF imo should have a better ballance of 50 - 60% top level fighters (medium and heavy class) and only a lower number of low level fighters (light class LCA). This kind of ballance will of course be costlier to maintain, but is the only way to have a capable deterrance against PLAAF. We always will be on par or only slightly above them when it comes to techs and can't compete in general numbers, so at least the top level fighters should be in equal numbers.

Well i doubt a 2 front war , would ever happen.

even if it did and all our allies and benefactors did nothing.
this includes Russia , US and the UN . Our benefactors in Europe as well.

We could always push ourselves on to a staunch defensive .
We will loose territory, but we have too much manpower for them to ever over run the country.

And there is always our Nuclear deterrence.
I wouldn't put much hope on the European countries and the US will help, because it is in their interest to have a powerful democracy in Asia, that can counter China to some extend. But only Russia is able and reliable enough to help us in such times and that's why I like the way of partnerships and co-developments that we have with them.

Hehe manpower? So you mean the advantage in numbers, not of techs? ;)
I agree, they can't over run us, but more important is, to make sure that they can't get air superiority over us! There must be the focus of our future developments and also on capabilities to attack their eastern cost. We have nukes now, but they don't pose a threat to China, because the balistic missiles lacks in range. So long range missiles, SSBNs/SSNs and long range carriers are needed to counter China. The sooner, the better!
 
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You get my post wrong! I didn't said the tanks were the reason why Germany lost the war, because Hitlers failed tactic of fighting Russia and Britain at the same time was, but that technological superior Tiger tanks, could not stand against higher numbers of lower tech Russian tanks. The Germans wasn't able to produce Tigers in the same rate as the Russians could produce their tanks, because they were cheaper and easier to produce and although 1 tiger could take out several of them, they were replaced fast.

You have your facts wrong, at the start of the war the Germans had fast moving and weak armoured Panther tanks. They got pulverised by at the time far more superior soviet tanks.

Soviets were the ones who came up with Slanted armour to boost protection.

Nearing the end of war The Germans came out with the Tiger and Panzer tanks , that pulverised all opposition.

In fact after the war figures were published showing that, in order for the German tank divisions to have won. Every one German tank had to destroy 24 allied or soviet tanks. The K/D ratio for German tanks was 21.


That's not correct! Actually even at the end of the war, the Germans was technological superior what V2 missiles, the first jet fighters, or helicopter clearly proves. But they were totally outnumbered, lacked in supply of fuel and numbers of arms that could be produced and must fight on several borders at the same time.
A-bomb > V-2

simple as that. That just goes to show despite the Germans huge technological advantage. When some one else has it , the battle just becomes one sided.


First of all, I agree that we can't compete on numbers, but if they also pay clearly more for military, how do you expect us to get a clear technological edge over them?
Not going to happen imo, because they are the only country in the world who is, or will be able to take on the US and they are in front of us in technological terms. All we can do is to catch up and use the advantages of using foreign techs, that they don't have.

Does that mean we give up, Israel a nation far smaller , stands at the fore front of technological design and development.

Don't say don't.

And FYI

NO one takes on America , no one.
Not even China has any where near capability to win a conventional war by any standard. Technology wise they are not that far ahead,
They are still behind Israel, many European firms and Russia.

they still import Russian Engines. and S-300 batteries. They still don't have AESA

The US is making Lasers and rail guns , while we work out what they were doing in the 90's . That is the technological advantage.

In fact since i mentioned Israel , think about how they are completely surrounded but remain the most powerful force in the region due to their technological edge

However, my point was we must focus on both quality and numbers, which doesn't meant 1000s of costly 5. gen fighters. I only say we need a bigger fleet of high level fighters to balance the numerical superiority of PLAAF.

But your not thinking logistics,

Its not just planes, Its also pilots and crew.

Where are they going to come from.

Can we afford to operate so many people.

The USAF for example have a high low mix of maybe 25% of top level fighters only (F15/F22) and lower level fighters in numbers. PLAAF goes the same way with J10 in and J11 at the moment. IAF imo should have a better ballance of 50 - 60% top level fighters (medium and heavy class) and only a lower number of low level fighters (light class LCA). This kind of ballance will of course be costlier to maintain, but is the only way to have a capable deterrance against PLAAF. We always will be on par or only slightly above them when it comes to techs and can't compete in general numbers, so at least the top level fighters should be in equal numbers.

USAF is will be inducting the F-35 in the thousands.
more than 2000 + in the states alone.
4000+ F-35 will be exported to member nations and customers

The F-22 was just not financially sound.

F-35 will be the mainstay of the USAF.

Sure the IAF has said it will have 42 squadrons by 2020. That's the best it can do.


I wouldn't put much hope on the European countries and the US will help, because it is in their interest to have a powerful democracy in Asia, that can counter China to some extend. But only Russia is able and reliable enough to help us in such times and that's why I like the way of partnerships and co-developments that we have with them.

I meant diplomatic help,

No one other than Russia will lend us a hand militarily , May be Israel

Hehe manpower? So you mean the advantage in numbers, not of techs? ;)

Technological advantage makes sense , with in reasonable numbers.

You cant make the billion dollar solider and expect him to fight a million others. There is fine balance. It has to tip technology wise by maintain a minimum numerical breadth.
 
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A brand new SU-30 MKI

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HAL update: Programs, Finance, new MD for Bangalore Complex, Rolls Royce JV
14 Apr 2010 HAL PR/8ak: Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) has announced a 10% growth in sales for the year 2009-10 at Rs. 11,415 cr (~US$2.6b) and 12% growth in Profit before Tax at Rs 2,617 cr. The order book has increased by over Rs 12,000cr during the year with new orders for domestic and export projects.

One of the major achievements for the Company during the year has been the maiden flight on the Technology Demonstrator of the indigenously designed Light Combat Helicopter (LCH) took place on 29 Mar 2010. A new military variant, ALH Mk III, was introduced during the year. This is powered by the Shakti engine and is intended for the IAF /Army to meet their high altitude operational requirements. This is being followed by an armed variant ALH MK IV which is presently undergoing weapon trials. HAL expects to sell up to 175 LCHs to the armed forces.

HAL has also ventured into design and development of a Light Utility Helicopter which gives HAL an edge in offering total solution to its customers in light helicopters in the 2 to 6 ton category.

On development in Fixed Wing category HAL stated:

* The Intermediate Jet Trainer project progressed well with successful integration of the new Russian engine AL-55I. Operational clearance for the IJT is expected to be achieved shortly. In parallel, the first batch of Limited Series Production aircraft is also getting ready for delivery to IAF. Follow on orders for IJT has already been received at Rs 6,180 Crs.
* Preliminary studies are underway to launch development of a new indigenous Basic Turboprop trainer to replace the HPT-32 aircraft.
* HAL secured an order in Dec 2009 for DARIN III upgrade of Jaguar aircraft worth Rs 3100 Crores & the program has been well initiated.


Business Standard quoted Wing Commander Arun Kumar Sinha saying that HAL Kanpur will start building an improvised version of AN-32 aircraft as a multi-role aircraft for armed forces and private carriers.

In late March, Rolls Royce (RR) announced that it would set up a new company, jointly owned 50:50 by RR and HAL, to manufacture compressor shroud rings. Construction of a new purpose-built production facility, incorporating the latest in modern manufacturing techniques, would commence later this year with component production beginning in 2012. RR's Adour engines are used on BAE's Hawk Advanced Jet Trainers and on the IAF's Jaguars.

Sify reports that the HAL's engine division in Sunabeda Orissa now has a separate overhauling department for Sukhoi-30 MKI fighter aircraft with the long term plans of manufacturing AL-31FP engines for Sukhoi-30 KLI aircraft under license.

And taking up the various challenges ahead, Mr D Balasunder (see photo) has been appointed Managing Director, Bangalore Complex, Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL)y. Prior to this he was the General Manager of HAL’s Aerospace Division.

Most of HAL’s Divisions in Bangalore, now comes under his purview, which include Aircraft, Overhaul, Foundry & Forge, Engines, Aerospace, IMGT, Airport Services and Limited Series Production (LSP) of LCA as well as IJT. He said, “the focus will be on the HAWK production as additional orders are expected. Concurrent production of LCA and Darin-III upgradation of Jaguar, are other key areas”, he added.

Hailing from Karnataka, Mr Balasunder joined HAL’s Engine Division as Chief Supervisor in 1975, after his M. Tech from I.I.T Madras. During his 35 years of career in HAL, he held various key posts and was General Manager heading the IMGT, Helicopter and Aerospace Divisions. His expertise includes price negotiation for 159 Advanced Light Helicopters (Dhruv) with MoD, rolling out of first ALH with Glass Cockpit (IADS) to Army and record supply or 8 ALHs in 2006-07, making ALH’s participation in International Air Shows, substantial reduction in debtors 2006-07, implementation of ERP system in Division, notable export thrust of ALH in the steep global competition.
 
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3605228124bc5576638006.jpg


http://www.brahmand.com/news/Su-30MKI-The-frontline-of-the-IAF/3631/1/15.html

Su-30MKI at a glance

The SU-30MKI multi-role fighter is a two-seat highly-manoeuvrable aircraft designed for air-superiority and for strikes on ground and naval targets. These aircraft have significantly enhanced the combat capabilities of the Indian Air Force.

Su-30MKI is a tailor-made aircraft for Indian specifications. It has an "international" avionics portfolio, including sub-systems and units made by 14 foreign firms from 6 countries. The aircraft features state of the art avionics developed by Russia, India and Israel which includes display, navigation, targeting and electronic warfare systems. Other key avionics used in the aircraft were sourced from France and South Africa.

The Su-30MKI avionics suite features have a number of advanced components, including integrated radar sighting system capable of detecting and tracking up to 15 air targets, while simultaneously attacking four of them, optronic sighting–and-navigation system with laser gyro navigator. The aircraft is provided with an ECCM facility intended to subvert hostile electronic and electro-optical countermeasures and etc. The superiority of the Su-30MKI’s radar in terms of target detection range, scanning sectors and jamming immunity makes it highly effective in long-range air combat.

The aircraft also features helmet-mounted displays, head-up-display, multifunction colour LCDs with image mixing capability including hi-tech GPS system (GLONASS/NAVSTAR compatible).

Engines with thrust-vectoring nozzles enable the Su-30MKI to perform such manoeuvres as "cobra", "vertical reverse", "roll in bell", "turn in cobra", etc. In these manoeuvres, the angle of attack can reach 180 degree. The Su-30 MKI’s super manoeuvreability gives it 30% superiority over its competitors in close air combat. This super manoeuvreability can be effectively used in combat.

The fighter aircraft has a co-pilot to improve the crew’s performance, weapon employment efficiency and blend perfectly for group missions.


Indian Contribution to Su-30 MKI

The Su-30MKI contains advanced avionics which were developed by DRDO under a project code named "Vetrivale" in close collaboration with the PSUs and the Indian Air Force.

The following are the significant components developed from the Indian side:

Mission Computer cum Display Processor - MC-486 and DP-30MK (Defence Avionics Research Establishment - DARE)
Radar Computer - RC1 and RC2 (DARE)
Tarang Mk2 Radar Warning Receiver (RWR) + High Accuracy Direction Finding Module (HADF) (DARE)
IFF-1410A - Identification Friend or Foe (IFF)
Integrated Communication suite INCOM 1210A (HAL)
Radar Altimeter - RAM-1701 (HAL)
Programmable Signal Processor (PSP) - (LRDE)
Multi Function Displays (MFD) - Samtel/DARE

The other DARE-developed product, the Tarang Mk2 (Tranquil) radar warning receiver, is manufactured by state-owned BEL at its Bangalore facility. It alerts the pilot to all surrounding "threats" such as radar-controlled guns and missiles for initiating evasive action or counter-measures.

DRDO also brought into the limelight a new design of the Core Avionics Computer (CAC) which is basically made for the Su-30MKI aircraft but with a single module adaptation can be used across many other aircraft platforms.

The Su-30MKI equipped with a phased array radar and an engine with thrust vector control is currently the only aircraft of this level in the world.

IAF in combat exercises over the period

In military exercises, military resources are employed for combat training and for testing strategies in simulated combat. Joint air combat exercises are meant for strengthening of military cooperation between the participating countries and also for the enhancement of interoperability and mutual understanding between military pilots of the two countries.

IAF has participated in many air combat military exercises with friendly nations.

Cope India 2004 saw India and the United States engaging in a series of mock combats, in which the top pilots from the two countries matched their skills against each other. This was the first bilateral dissimilar air combat exercise together conducted by the IAF and USAF after a gap of more than two decades, mainly to enhance relations and to understand each other's mutual capabilities.

USAF pilots found that IAF pilots were of superior quality who outperformed US pilots in beyond visual range air combat engagements by simulated launching of medium-range missiles from Su-30K and Mirage 2000H against USAF aircraft. The US aircraft lost in 90% of within visual range air combat engagements.

After its triumphant success in Cope India 2004, IAF also participated with its primary Su-30K fighter-interceptor in SINDEX 2004 with Singapore and in Garuda II with France. Garuda I was the first-ever joint exercise between India and France which was held in 2003 in Gwalior, India. Co-operative Cope Thunder 2004 was also another air exercise in 2004 where IAF's six Jaguar deep-penetration strike aircraft and two IL-76 transport aircraft flew to Alaska in US to participate in the multi-national exercise. Sukhoi aircraft was not part of the IAF contingent during these two exercises.


Su-30MKI in air combat exercises

Su-30MKI, for the first time took part in joint war games with foreign air forces, in Cope India 2005.

During the air combat mission, Su-30MKI protected AWACS aircraft against F-16 attacks and also intercepted large group of strike aircraft. The US aircraft lost nearly 50% of dogfights, even after E-3 AWACS aircraft provided all the information support. The two sides performed 300 sorties, including aerobatic flights, single type dog fights and mixed type group flights. It was the first-ever exercise where AWACS came into limelight on the Indian territory.

Indra Dhanush 2006 was the first ever joint exercise between Royal Air Force (RAF) and Indian Air Force. Su-30MKI tested its waters with RAF Tornado F3. The RAF pilots were of the viewpoint that the Su-30 MKI combat capabilities surpassed those of the Tornado F3 fighter-interceptor.

Again Su-30MKI aircraft was far more superior and impressed France with its super manoeuvreability during the Garuda III military exercise held in Kalaikunda Air Force Base in India. For the first time IAF got a chance to operate on board the AWACS aircraft to familiarize itself in AWACS operation. This experience became a sort of training to operate the customized built Indian AWACS with a Russian aircraft fitted with Israeli Phalcon radar.

Indra Dhanush 2007 saw the first deployment of Su-30MKI fighter aircraft outside India and first ever participation of the European Typhoon in joint exercises with foreign air forces.

Red Flag exercise is considered to be the most demanding the mother of all military exercise conducted anywhere in the world. The Red Flag exercise normally host only NATO member-countries and close US allies. But on rare occasions a non-NATO member is invited to participate.

A typical Red Flag exercise involves a variety of attack, fighter and bomber aircraft (F-15Es, A-10s, B-1s, etc.), reconnaissance aircraft (UAV - Predator), electronic countermeasures suppression aircraft (EC-130s, EA-6Bs and F-16s), air superiority aircraft (F15s, F-16s, etc), airlift support (C-130s, C-141s), search and rescue aircraft (HH-53s, HC-130s), and aerial refuelling aircraft (KC-130s, KC-135s). The E-3 Airborne Warning and Control System (AWACS) aircraft plays a significant role in the training by using its unique radar capability to monitor and support the forces.

Red Flag 2008 saw the active participation of IAF with the USAF. Other nations like France and Korea were also the part of the joint exercise.

The exercise visualised the combat employment tactics of Su-30MKI in strike missions. The fighter aircraft surpassed both the F-15 and F-16 fighter aircraft.

65 aircraft and helicopters and over 1000 multi-national personnel were involved in the exercise.

Su-30MKI also proved its mettle at the Desert Eagle 2008 exercise held at Al Dafra Air Force Base, UAE. The aircraft was engaged in air combat training engagements with the F-16 and Mirage 2000-9 fighters of UAE Air Force and Air Defence.

Su-30MKI didn't participate in the earlier air combat exercises, i.e; Cope India 2004, SINDEX 2004, and Garuda II. It was the Su-30K fighter interceptor alongwith Mirage, MiG and other transport aircraft, which played a key role during these military exercises with other nations.


Conclusion

The inclusion of the Su-30MKI in the Indian Air Force has definitely given an added military strength to India's defence wing. IAF has received immense confidence with such successes in the air combat exercises with various nations. Countries like USA and other NATO nations see Su-30MKI as one of the best combat aircraft in service.

Because of these results, IAF is modifying its infrastructure with modernised Su-30MKI to train its forces in fighting the next generation war.

To enchance combat potential of the Su-30MKI, the modification of this aircraft is currently implemented to integrate the BRAHMOS supersonic cruise missile into its weaponry suite. The Su-30MKI armed with the BRAHMOS missile will attain the deep-strike capability of engaging ground and sea-surface targets at a distance of up to 300 km.

Finally, Su-30MKI gives the Indian Air Force a capability that will remain unmatched by all rivals for the foreseeable future.
 
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Eastern Air Command chief reviews preparedness of the fleet

Kolkata, Apr 9 (ANI): Air Marshal KK Nohwar, Air Officer Commanding in Chief (AOC-in-C), Eastern Air Command (EAC), who is on a four-day visit to various Indian Air Force (IAF) bases in West Bengal, on Friday, visited the Air Force Station in Barrackpore near Kolkata.

Air Marshal Nohwar, who reached the IAF base at Barrackpore on Thursday afternoon, would also be visiting the Air Force Station in Panagarh, before proceeding back to EAC Headquarters at Shillong.

Earlier on Wednesday and Thursday, he visited the IAF base at Kalaikunda.

Air Marshal Nohwar was received by the Base Commander Air Cmde DK Vashisht at the Air Force Station in Kalaikunda on his arrival.

The Air Marshal inspected various operational and support facilities at the base. He expressed his appreciation on the preparedness of the base and was extremely happy to see the infrastructure matching the international standards.

During his interaction with Air Warriors at Kalaikunda, he said that the base had become very important due to regular joint exercises at the base with foreign air forces.

At the Air Force Station in Barrackpore, Air Marshal Nohwar was received by Base Commander Group Captain Pankaj Bishnoi.

The Air Marshal also took a stock of air and ground defences at the base.

He also visited the training facilities, which impart theory knowledge about the AN-32 and Mig 21 systems to aircrew and ground crew. Air Marshal Nohwar inspected various communication facilities at the base.

Air Marshal Nohwar is accompanied by wife Anita Nohwar, who is the president of Air Force Wives Welfare Association at the command level.

She interacted with the members of AFWWA at AF Stations in Kalaikunda and Barrackpore and took a stock of welfare activities initiated at these bases.

Nohwar also visited and appreciated the School “Umeed- Asha Kiran” at Air Force School in Barrackpore meant for the special children. (ANI)

Eastern Air Command chief reviews preparedness of the fleet
 
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FIRST LOOK: India's IJT Sitara In IAF Colours (Tippy Grey) Finally



Photo from Vayu II/2010. Clicked by a Sony Ericsson mobile phone
 
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FIRST LOOK: India's IJT Sitara In IAF Colours (Tippy Grey) Finally



Photo from Vayu II/2010. Clicked by a Sony Ericsson mobile phone
Any update about IJT-36. when it will induct by iaf and wht about it flight test there is no update. ??? can anyone have alteast update ???
 
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SBI launches defence salary package for Indian Air Force-Jobs-News By Industry-News-The Economic Times

NEW DELHI: The State Bank of India today launched a defence salary package for the Indian Air Force with an array of concessional services such as zero balance accounts, interest rate concessions on loans, preferential allotment of lockers and free mobile banking.

"I recommit that SBI would serve the very best we can," SBI chairman O P Bhatt said at the launch of the product here.

The package includes free drafts and free cheque books and provides for free funds transfers to any of the State Bank Group's network of almost 16,000 branches or any other bank in India, besides free ATM cards and other features.

SBI further said that it plans to add 5,000 ATMs to its existing count of 20,000, which will benefit more than one lakh Air Force personnel, as the bank intends to establish a large number of ATMs to serve Air Force formations.

The package enables Air Force personnel to open zero balance accounts with an unique lifetime account number, valid even after retirement, and offers free mobile banking services, preferential allotment of lockers and interest rate concessions on home, car and personal loans, among others.

"The bank's network of business correspondents appointed in unbanked rural areas will also be available for the basic banking requirement of the Air Force personnel and their families," SBI said.

Speaking on the occasion, Air Chief Marshal P V Naik said, "I hope SBI would meet the expectations of defence personnel," adding that he would urge the SBI chairman to translate it into a reality at the earliest.

A similar package was announced for Army and Navy personnel earlier.
 
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Guys how many Fulcrums do we have in active service in IAF nad how many are upgraded to SMT sttandard..?

thx.
 
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66 including the two seater conversion trainers,none of them has been upgraded as of today,the deal has already been signed,the upgradation should start by end of this year and completed over a period of two years.
 
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66 including the two seater conversion trainers,none of them has been upgraded as of today,the deal has already been signed,the upgradation should start by end of this year and completed over a period of two years.

better the upgrade take place..or atleast in my opinion they r sitting ducks for f-16 blk 52.

nd guys a bit Off topic:
how does it fare against the older F-16 s of PAF?
 
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