Indian Air Force News & Discussions

[HRK]

https://twitter.com/x/status/560325286357499904

which MiG fleet 21 or 27 ??

 

[Manindra]

which MiG fleet 21 or 27 ??

MIG 29

 

[HRK]

MIG 29

as we know MiG 29 is already a 4th gen plane .... a confusing tweet

 

[Etilla]

as we know MiG 29 is already a 4th gen plane .... a confusing tweet

Mig 21 Bison...

HAL just repeating old things to stay relevant in front of media.

 

[sancho]

as we know MiG 29 is already a 4th gen plane .... a confusing tweet

It's a 3rd generation fighter but will be 4th generation after the upgrade, with modern radar and avionics, IFR capability, glass cockpit and of course the A2G capability that will be added.

Continued from - Indian Air Force News & Discussions | Page 187

IAF crash reports 2015

1) January 27, 2015 - Mig 27 crashed near Barmer in Rajasthan
IAF's MiG-27 aircraft crashes in Rajasthan, pilot safe

 

[Krate M]

@sancho would you consider mig27 a higher priority for replacement than mig21?
Can LCA in its current configuration be a decent replacement?

 

[sancho]

@sancho would you consider mig27 a higher priority for replacement than mig21?
Can LCA in its current configuration be a decent replacement?

No, once because the Mig 27 will be replaced already by MKIs in numbers and operational terms, secondly, because it's a dedicated strike fighter, with operational use mainly in war times, while the Mig 21 fleet remains important for air policing and the general air defence roles, even in peace times. That's why LCA's strike capabilities are a nice to have feature for IAF, but not important at the moment. while proper A2A capabilities would be more important to replace the Mig 21s.

 

[Krate M]

@sancho did not understand fully, can you explain bit more

 

[Etilla]

No, once because the Mig 27 will be replaced already by MKIs in numbers and operational terms, secondly, because it's a dedicated strike fighter, with operational use mainly in war times, while the Mig 21 fleet remains important for air policing and the general air defence roles, even in peace times. That's why LCA's strike capabilities are a nice to have feature for IAF, but not important at the moment. while proper A2A capabilities would be more important to replace the Mig 21s.

Can Tejas carry greater payload than Mig-27?
If not how can it replace it?

Also Mig-27 has basic air-air capability to defend itself if attacked.
Tejas is a sitting duck

 

[sancho]

@sancho did not understand fully, can you explain bit more

The MKIs we have on order will replace all Mig 27s, so no additional order needed in that regard. The Mig 21s on the other side were meant to be replaced by LCA and MMRCA and the induction / procurement of both are delayed, which makes these orders more important.
Operationally as explained, the strike fighters are only important in war times, while we need the interceptors in peace time roles too, which makes the Mig 21 replacement more important as well.

Can Tejas carry greater payload than Mig-27?
If not how can it replace it?

It doesn't replace it, but offers good CAS capabilities with the LGBs it already has integrated and in this config it's pretty much equal to the Mig 27s and Jags.

Also Mig-27 has basic air-air capability to defend itself if attacked.
Tejas is a sitting duck

LCA has basic defence capabilities too, with WVR missiles, it's sensors, avionics and jamming capabilities should be even better than what the Migs or Jags have.

 

[Krate M]

@sancho Got the point you make.
What my point is
1 Mig 27 upgrade deal seems to be a dud, so it would be the top priority for replacement, because bison program for mig 21 would allow to be useful for a bit longer.
2 For the time being, till the a2a capabilities are proven, LCA can be used as a stop gap non ideal replacement for mig 27, this would reduce at least one of the type needing urgent replacement allowing to keep up the squadron numbers, the squadron can shift to su30 when they become available.
The mk1 would prove their a2a capabilities by that time and replace a mig 21 squadron.
I am assuming increased order and production rates for mk1, so that production lines don't remain idle.

Can Tejas carry greater payload than Mig-27?
If not how can it replace it?

Also Mig-27 has basic air-air capability to defend itself if attacked.
Tejas is a sitting duck

LCA can fire wvr ir guided missile r73 which has better range than the r60 the mig 27 can fire.
It has a radar which mig lacks so mig27 has no bvr capacity, has similar payload capacity, most important it has a good engine. Better avionics and rwr etc.
The only thing LCA can't do and mig27 can is fire guns, which should be taken care of in next couple of months.

 

[Etilla]

@sancho Got the point you make.
What my point is
1 Mig 27 upgrade deal seems to be a dud, so it would be the top priority for replacement, because bison program for mig 21 would allow to be useful for a bit longer.
2 For the time being, till the a2a capabilities are proven, LCA can be used as a stop gap non ideal replacement for mig 27, this would reduce at least one of the type needing urgent replacement allowing to keep up the squadron numbers, the squadron can shift to su30 when they become available.
The mk1 would prove their a2a capabilities by that time and replace a mig 21 squadron.
I am assuming increased order and production rates for mk1.


LCA can fire wvr ir guided missile r73 which has better range than the r60 the mig 27 can fire.
It has a radar which mig lacks, has similar payload capacity, most important it has a good engine. Better avionics and rwr etc.
The only thing LCA can't do and mig27 can is fire guns, which should be taken care of in next couple of months.

Mig 27 can carry 4 ton of external weapons

Tejas can carry upto 3 tons of external weapons

Mig27 can fire R27,73,60,77 missiles

Mig27 has a much larger combat radius 780km than Tejas 300km

Only difference is engine because Tejas engine is imported and Mig27 engine license made at HAL so naturally the Mig27 engine will be defective.

So why will IAF replace a fighter jet with an inferior one?

 

[Krate M]

@Etilla
LIVEFIST: SPECIAL REPORT: The Story Of India's MiG-27 Upgrade
The MiG-27 continues, however, to be a highly controversial aircraft in Indian service, recently seeing a long spell of grounding. Former IAF flight safety chief Air Marshal PS Ahluwalia has long argued that the MiG-27 engine has fundamental flaws that make it a dangerous machine to fly, and should be phased out forthwith.



Not a fault of hal that mig 27 engine has problems, was main reason for removal from Russian air force VVS. It is a well-known fact in air force circles.

The payload difference is negated by the need to use pylons for external radar and laser target designator pod in mig.

Please give me a reference or link for
1 ability to fire r73
2 combat range with payload details
3 performance of its engine in other airforces.

The reason for replacement is obvious, don't try to troll please.

 

[sancho]

What my point is
1 Mig 27 upgrade deal seems to be a dud, so it would be the top priority for replacement, because bison program for mig 21 would allow to be useful for a bit longer.

Could it be that you are confusing the Jaguar upgrade here? Of the 4 x Mig 27 squads we have left, 2 are already upgraded and were suppose to serve till FGFA arrives, but the ongoing engine problems forced IAF to order the additional 2 MKI squads too. So the Mig 27 replacement is already an ongoing one and has no relation to the LCA.

 

[Krate M]

Could it be that you are confusing the Jaguar upgrade here? Of the 4 x Mig 27 squads we have left, 2 are already upgraded and were suppose to serve till FGFA arrives, but the ongoing engine problems forced IAF to order the additional 2 MKI squads too. So the Mig 27 replacement is already an ongoing one and has no relation to the LCA.

I know it has no relation with LCA.
But 2 squadron of LCA can replace the mig 27, improving aircraft availability and safety.
Mig 23/27 has had the worst safety record in IAF service per hours flown.
Both mig27 and jaguar need engine replacement, but only jaguar seems likely, provided government goes for it. So far the upgrades were only in avionics and sensors.
I am advocating ordering 2 more squadron of LCA mk1 to accelarate replacement of the mig27. As a like for like replacement for the time being, then to be made multirole.