Indian Air Force News & Discussions

[ApparentRaceTraitor]

Yes but at the same time an MKI being used purely as a display a/c is a complete and utter waste of resources and capabilities. Using Trainers is cost effective and practical. If you were going to use an MKI you'd have to strip the a/c right down to the bare bones and remove most of the systems that make it as lethal as it is so you'd be paying 5-6 times more ( a MKI costs anywhere from $50-100 MN these days depending on the spec and batch) for a machine you only take out on special occasions and don't use 97% of its systems (that you've paid for)!


India isn't that rich yet where it can throw MKIs into a display team.

Oh yeah my bad, I forgot that the SK team use trainers as well, I don't know why I was thinking that they use a dedicated aircraft designed solely for them (well I am pretty high at the moment so forgive me). I suppose that operating expenses would definitely outweigh propaganda value in this case.

 

[Abingdonboy]

Oh yeah my bad, I forgot that the SK team use trainers as well, I don't know why I was thinking that they use a dedicated aircraft designed solely for them (well I am pretty high at the moment so forgive me). I suppose that operating expenses would definitely outweigh propaganda value in this case.

Indeed. The only nations that use combat/jet a/c in their display teams are the US (Blue Angels and Thunderbirds) and Russians (Sky Knights) most/all other nations use subsonic AJTs. And let's not discount what these birds can do in the hands of skilled pilots- just look up what the SK did, what the RAF's Red Arrows can do, what the French Patrouille de France can do etc etc all in subsonic trainers!


+ I think the manoeuvre you reffered to was the "Vertical Charlie" performed at the end of the 2013 Indian Republic day, check it out here:

5.40-


Very impressive indeed- TVC + Canards= Supermanoeuvrability!!

 

[OrionHunter]

Oh la. All these aircrafts and weapons just to contain China which is under embargo and cannot purchase anything. P 8 Orion, C 17 Globemaster, training aircraft from Switzerland, Hawk from Britain, Airbus refueling from Europe, Rafale from France, more Su 30 MKI from Russia, more avionics and radar for the SU 30 MKI from Israel, Apache from the US, engines for LCA from the US etc...

And tetra-pack noodles from China....

 

[Abingdonboy]

 

[Invincible INDIAN]

India's air power is all set to get a huge boost as the Indian Air Force (IAF) is holding talks with various companies over the purchase of different types of aircraft in the near future.

On Friday, Union minister of state for defence Jitendra Singh went on a sortie in one of the newly inducted PC-7 MK-11 basic trainer aircraft flown by a pilot at the Air Force Academy, Dundigal. "It was magical. We also did a few maneuvers. It reminded me of the days when I used to fly," Jitendra Singh said.

It cost Rs 3,500 crore for purchasing 75 PC-7 MK-11 aircraft from Switzerland, developing the required infrastructure and ground facilities.

As about a dozen of the basic trainer aircraft have arrived, they will be used for ab initio training of pilots by the IAF from July this year. The rest of the aircraft is expected to reach by August 2015. These aircraft have been purchased keeping in mind the needs of training up to the year 2060, Air Chief Marshal N A K Browne said. He, however, said the IAF actually needs 173 aircraft.

To the question whether the induction of the new trainer aircraft means there would be no more mishaps at Dundigal like before when the HPT-32 trainer aircraft was being used, the Air Chief said, "Military aviation, one must understand, has risks".

He said the earlier HPT-32 trainer aircraft had 'engine cuts' and this problem could not be understood or rectified. The Air Chief also pointed out that IAF had seen the best safety record in its entire history last year. He said the C-17 Globemaster III airlifters will arrive in India from the US on June 17. These aircraft, purchased from Boeing, will be used for 'strategic air lifting' by the IAF.

As part of the modernisation of the IAF, he said negotiations were being held for the purchase of the air-to-air refuelling tanker A330 MRTT from Airbus. He said negotiations had been completed for the purchasing of the C-130J aircraft. These aircraft reportedly will be used for the Special Forces.

Browne said the negotiations went off 'smoothly' for acquiring the Medium Multi Role Aircraft (MMRC) and the deal is expected to be finalised by September or October this year. He also said by the end of next year the IAF would have the Light Combat Aircraft (LCA).

Replying to a question, the air chief said the IAF had been sanctioned
20 more hawk aircraft which are expected to be delivered in three years time. "I am also missing the disbanded Surya Kiran team. When the hawk aircraft arrive, the aerobatics team will be revived," he said.

Jitendra Singh said there would be complete transparency in the new acquisitions being made by the defence ministry. "The Defence Procurement Policy-2013 will create a better environment for the Indian industry to be involved in defence production," the minister said.

Wish if I could have 100 thanks for you....

MMRCA "Rafale" all the wayyy

 

[Capt.Popeye]

I think the 'wow'-factor would be better reinforced through the use of actual fighter jets in IAF inventory. Remember the stunts pulled by the MKIs during (I don't remember exactly) the Republic Day thingy? IMO the same stunts pulled by the planes previously used by the SK team could not potentially generate the same propaganda value that any hotshot MKI pilot could(not meaning hotshot in a bad way, the way I understand it, you need to have the hotshot attitude to be able to commandeer one of those babies) that can be used to reinforce it's image and attract new recruits. In the end I think it makes more sense, fiscal and man-power wise to not have a dedicated acrobatics team. But that is just my opinion.

Yeah, its just your opinion. Not the IAF's opinion.

 

[RPK]

http://www.defenceweb.co.za/index.p...e-saab&catid=48:defence-technology&Itemid=109


Skinner said that Saab South Africa’s contract with the Indian air force, one of its biggest customers to date, with a current order value in excess of R400 million, is the perfect illustration of long-term use of South African products and technology as this platform will remain in production for many years to come.

“India developed a local helicopter, the [Dhruv] ALH or advanced light helicopter, with Saab selected as the default self-protection system for its air force and army. We’re now working with them on several levels: the provision of the original systems, training and technology transfer to allow the Indian industry to initially handle the in-country support, and eventually almost full local production of our systems,” he explained.

 

[sancho]

Interesting wrt the Avro replacement:



Airbus Military readies winglet-equipped C295W for market

 

[Abingdonboy]

@sancho residing in Germany- you wouldn't happen to be an employee of Airbus Military would you??!!

 

[AirDefence]

 

[sancho]

@sancho residing in Germany- you wouldn't happen to be an employee of Airbus Military would you??!!

Yes, it's a part time job besides being Indian defence minister, which I am as well according to some members.

But honestly, the C295W seems to be a seriously strong contender in the Avro replacement and this new specs seems to be promissing and especially tailored for our Hot and High requirements.
The quality and capability of Airbus / Eurocopter speaks for itself and I am predicting deals for the Fennec, the A330 MRTT and this C295 for a long time. Btw, Indian media now got a chance to fly with the A400M too:

Riding the Atlas | StratPost


Lets hope IAF at least evaluates alternatives before considering a follow order of C17.

 

[Abingdonboy]

Yes, it's a part time job besides being Indian defence minister, which I am as well according to some members.

But honestly, the C295W seems to be a seriously strong contender in the Avro replacement and this new specs seems to be promissing and especially tailored for our Hot and High requirements.
The quality and capability of Airbus / Eurocopter speaks for itself and I am predicting deals for the Fennec, the A330 MRTT and this C295 for a long time. Btw, Indian media now got a chance to fly with the A400M too:

Riding the Atlas | StratPost


Lets hope IAF at least evaluates alternatives before considering a follow order of C17.

@sancho I was just joking.


But anyway- the way is see it playing out wrt follow-on C-17s is if the IAF is pleased with them when they enter service this year then they will defiantly go for more C-17s- starting out with the 6 follow-ons as stipulated in the original contract. These 6 will prolong the C-17 production time by a few months, maybe a year and this will buy the IAF some time to decide whether it wants more than 16 C-17s (as rumours are they want 20-25).


Wrt looking at other options- I don't see why they would nessercarily be evaluating alternatives to the C-17 but who knows? AFAIK though Airbus Miltary haven't briefed the IAF on the A400 to date.

And anyway @sancho aren't you always going on about cutting down on the diversity present in the IAF fleet? You want to add a 5th transport type to the IAF's fixed wing fleet?

Wrt the C295 vs others- I think for this particular deal the IAF simply needs a "cheap and cheerful" solution- nothing fancy or overqualified. Simply put this bird will constitute the very lowest rung of the IAF's transport fleet. All this marketing by Airbus is going to be aimed at nations for which the C-295 will for the back bone of their fleet for the IAF it simpy needs to get <20 tonnes of crgo from a to b as cheaply as possible.

 

[sancho]

@sancho I was just joking.


But anyway- the way is see it playing out wrt follow-on C-17s is if the IAF is pleased with them when they enter service this year then they will defiantly go for more C-17s- starting out with the 6 follow-ons as stipulated in the original contract. These 6 will prolong the C-17 production time by a few months, maybe a year and this will buy the IAF some time to decide whether it wants more than 16 C-17s (as rumours are they want 20-25).


Wrt looking at other options- I don't see why they would nessercarily be evaluating alternatives to the C-17 but who knows? AFAIK though Airbus Miltary haven't briefed the IAF on the A400 to date.

And anyway @sancho aren't you always going on about cutting down on the diversity present in the IAF fleet? You want to add a 5th transport type to the IAF's fixed wing fleet?

Wrt the C295 vs others- I think for this particular deal the IAF simply needs a "cheap and cheerful" solution- nothing fancy or overqualified. Simply put this bird will constitute the very lowest rung of the IAF's transport fleet. All this marketing by Airbus is going to be aimed at nations for which the C-295 will for the back bone of their fleet for the IAF it simpy needs to get <20 tonnes of crgo from a to b as cheaply as possible.

They should evaluate it, because of the huge costs of the C17 and higher operational advantages of the A400. The C17 is a good aircraft, but in IAF only for high altitude and long range transport roles and the 10 we have orderd fills these niche, but what IAF lacks is, credible numbers of aircrafts that can transport vehicles and heavier cargo all around India and to the most ammounts of air strips, that's where the A400 excells, besides that as an MRTT it would increase our tanker capability too. Btw, I don't count the C130Js, since they were procured for specific reasons only:

Saras
C295W
MTA (C130J)
A400
C17

 

[Abingdonboy]

They should evaluate it, because of the huge costs of the C17 and higher operational advantages of the A400. The C17 is a good aircraft, but in IAF only for high altitude and long range transport roles and the 10 we have orderd fills these niche, but what IAF lacks is, credible numbers of aircrafts that can transport vehicles and heavier cargo all around India and to the most ammounts of air strips, that's where the A400 excells, besides that as an MRTT it would increase our tanker capability too. Btw, I only count 4 transport aircrafts, since the C130Js were procured for specific reasons only:

Saras
C295W
MTA (C130J)
A400
C17

I understand where you are coming from and I think you make a point worth making but for sure it seems that IAF is not thinking this way.


Like we discussed- maybe there is a chance of the IAF getting a sweet deal with some of the Luftwaffe's 30 excess A400s on order that they're looking to sell off.

And yeah I did include the C-130J-30 in my figure but mistakingly omitted the Do-228/Saras. So, with the A400, the IAF's fixed wing transport fleet would consist of 6 different a/c types. Which is a lot- obviously!


Whilst the C-130s were bought for a specific role and this aren't part of the mainstream transport fleet but are still present in their inventory and are thus still a burden on training, logistics, MRO etc so you can't immediately discount them just ecause they aren't present in exceedingly high numbers.

 

[sancho]

Wrt the C295 vs others- I think for this particular deal the IAF simply needs a "cheap and cheerful" solution- nothing fancy or overqualified. Simply put this bird will constitute the very lowest rung of the IAF's transport fleet.

Missed that part, but that exactly why the C295 is such a good option! It is cheap to procure and to operate, but is not a tactical aircraft the the C130, MTA or even the C27J. That's why it will suit perfectly to the basic uttility transport roles of the Avro and the improvements of the new version only benefits our requirements, since more payload can be carried now to high altitude areas.
Not to mention that it remains a good option for IN as well, as a hi lo mix with the P8I, only that you can buy 5 x C295 for the cost of a single P8I.