Indian Air Force News & Discussions

[jha]

As Per Sources close to idrw.org , final design of AMCA based on Staff requirements (ASR) issued by Indian Air Force in 2010 , might be ready by end of 2012 or early 2013 and will be send to Indian air force , Development time for the first AMCA TD aircraft will take 5 and more years ,since ASR issued by Indian Air Force changed the definition of “Near Stealth aircraft” to “Stealth aircraft” , which means further research has to be carried out in Reducing Exhaust temperature and also work on reducing infrared signature .

Research work done on MCA , cannot fully be carried out in AMCA , since lot of changes has been sorted in ASR issued by IAF .ASR of IAF also means that a new engine for a 5th generation fighter aircraft has to be developed ,and Joint venture on Kaveri engine will have to incorporate new technology which are yet to be developed or discussed ,instead of just mating of Eco of M-88-3 engine with Kaveri which was the plan earlier , will just not do as per sources and soon joint meeting with French will be held soon on development of new engine to power a Stealthy 5th generation aircraft .

only after rounds of meetings with french , DRDO will take a call on engines , sources also mention DRDO might also consider other options . Many of the Research done for MCA (Low observable aircraft), might be carried out in Tejas MK-3 , but ADA major concentration is to make sure Tejas MK-2 is ready in time , which will decide the fate of Tejas Mk-3 .

DRDO has been aiming 2018-20 period for the first flight of AMCA , but with lot of Research and Development yet to began , and stiffer ASR issued by IAF , means they might be delays and AMCA also has to go through same process has LCA , first two aircraft’s will be TD and then Prototypes and only if IAF is happy with the project and project is able to achieve all the technological requirements only then it might go for Production .

Even in Avionics front lot of technologies like AESA Radar or Infra-red search and track (IRST) system and appropriate electronic warfare systems are to be developed . DRDO currently is working on Design optimization of AMCA to cover Stealth aspects laid out in ASR of IAF .

AMCA Update

 

[SQ8]

Fictional "what if" Su-30 MKI(J) Electronic Attack aircraft of the IAF.
A possible guise of the MKI could be as an electronic warfare platform similar to the EA-18G. With ample room for housing equipment and a large payload capacity allowing for the carriage of heavy ECM pods, an Electronic Warfare variant of the MKI would be able to provide excellent ECM and EW coverage for an IAF attack force while offering an additional SEAD/DEAD capability. Its long range would ensure that it can fly all the way with a deep strike force and provide Electronic protection throughout ingress and egress.
Seen here with a fictional loadout:
Embedded as part of the wingtip structure are possible Gardineye/FUE ECM pods or similar ones of Israeli origin.
The aircraft also carries Powerful SPS-1 Siren pods for deceptive jamming and even more powerful large ECM pods with possible phased arrays for jammer transmission.
Along with its extensive EW suite, the aircraft is also carrying two KH-31P Anti Radiation Missiles for Anti-Radar attack and 4 ASTRA BVRAAMS for self protection.

 

[janon]

^^
I've always thought that's an excellent idea. MKI has loads of power, and ample space to house all the wiring required to reconfigure it as an EW variant. I don't understand why the IAF didn't do that before. It could be a potent force multiplier, to have a few MKIS in EW role in every squadron. Or a dedicated squadron of MKI variants. Does Russia have any growler equivalents, even if less capable I mean, fighters conigured for EW role?

 

[sancho]

^^
I've always thought that's an excellent idea. MKI has loads of power, and ample space to house all the wiring required to reconfigure it as an EW variant. I don't understand why the IAF didn't do that before. It could be a potent force multiplier, to have a few MKIS in EW role in every squadron. Or a dedicated squadron of MKI variants. Does Russia have any growler equivalents, even if less capable I mean, fighters conigured for EW role?

Check this thread:

http://www.defence.pk/forums/indian-defence/37431-su-30-mki-growler.html#post528173


The MKI or better the Flanker base is indeed a good platform for an EW fighter. A lot of power, range and many hardpoints to carry additional weapons (unlike the F18 Growler) too. But EW techs are advancing and today you can integrate highly capable jamming systems into the fighter itself. In future (possibly till the end of the decade), we will see AESA radars as powerful jammers too, so carrying dedicated jamming pods might be not needed anymore.
A good example is the Rafale with SPECTRA and the SEAD attacks it did in Libya for example. It was able to detect enemy radars, precisly locate them and guide even PGMs on them, all this without any specific pod, or weapon. They even denied the help of F18 Growlers or F16 CJs, that are dedicated SEAD versions, because any Rafale offers this high protection and detection capability, not only some like it is the case of the F18 Growlers.
Thales initially developed an EW pod for fighters as well, but some of the techs are already integrated into SPECTRA and it doesn't seems to be developed anymore:

 

[sancho]

The following pic was posted on BR and is said to be the new Super 30 MKI cockpit:

Su 35 cockpit for comparison:

Touchscreen displays and HUD looks indeed different, will be interesting to see what the other changes will be.

 

[Abingdonboy]

^^ whoa, nice (potential) catch Sancho! I think the MFDs might be right but I think I read somewhere the Super UPG will also feature a new wide-angle HUD, which is absent in the pic.

 

[SQ8]

There still seems to be a missing standardization in all these Sukhoi cockpit concepts that pop up.
Possibly since there are still many configs being tried and multiple permutations may exist.
Although I am an opponent of too many displays in the cockpit as it can be a distraction.
The F-35's concept of a single large screen displaying all data in the simplest manner possible is the way to go.

 

[sancho]

There still seems to be a missing standardization in all these Sukhoi cockpit concepts that pop up.
Possibly since there are still many configs being tried and multiple permutations may exist.
Although I am an opponent of too many displays in the cockpit as it can be a distraction.
The F-35's concept of a single large screen displaying all data in the simplest manner possible is the way to go.

If that is Super 30s cockpit, the displays should be Indian made, by HAL or Samtel, that's why the layout is different to Russian or other Flankers.

 

[SQ8]

If that is Super 30s cockpit, the displays should be Indian made, by HAL or Samtel, that's why the layout is different to Russian or other Flankers.

Then I guess with the Rafale coming in, IAF pilots will be getting a new kit of Silk gloves to operate those touch screens..and the same could happen for this cockpit..

How chic!

 

[Abingdonboy]

There still seems to be a missing standardization in all these Sukhoi cockpit concepts that pop up.
Possibly since there are still many configs being tried and multiple permutations may exist.
Although I am an opponent of too many displays in the cockpit as it can be a distraction.
The F-35's concept of a single large screen displaying all data in the simplest manner possible is the way to go.

I agree with you. The Russians seem to "bolt-on" any new component they like especially when it comes to cockpits without a process of standardisation. But I suppose due to the number of different operators procuring such weapons all asking for customisation this is the result. As Sancho pointed out- if this is the Super UPG for MKIs then it is clear why the cockpit layout will look different to any cockpit for SU-30s that has gone before. Wrt to the F-35 and the single display, I think in the Super MKI cockpit with the two large MFDs you get a similar sort of feel as F-35s single MFD which is split into two anyway.

 

[sancho]

Not IAF but interesting in regard of MKI too:

USAF F-15Cs train with Su-30MKMs for the first time

...Recently in April, the 18th Wing's 67th Fighter Squadron, which flies active electronically scanned array radar-equipped versions of the venerable Eagle, participated in a two-week exercise in Malaysia where the unit flew with Russian-built Mikoyan MiG-29s and, for the first time, Sukhoi Su-30MKMs.

"We flew with the Sukhois in 1 vs. 1, within-visual-range missions (BFM) as well as in beyond-visual-range (BVR), large force missions," says Brigadier General Matt Molloy, commander of the 18th Wing.

"As expected, their new aircraft performed marvelously," Molloy adds. "They displayed great maneuverability during the BFM (basic fighter maneuvers) sorties and strong situational awareness in the BVR (beyond visual range) missions."...

USAF F-15Cs train with Su-30MKMs for the first time - The DEW Line

 

[DacterSaab]

can anyone tell me what's the ball like thing i've outlined in red under the wing????

 

[sancho]

can anyone tell me what's the ball like thing i've outlined in red under the wing????

It's the Damocles targeting pod at the pod station under the air intake, here is a better view at it:

 

[DrSomnath999]

Check this thread:

http://www.defence.pk/forums/indian-defence/37431-su-30-mki-growler.html#post528173


The MKI or better the Flanker base is indeed a good platform for an EW fighter. A lot of power, range and many hardpoints to carry additional weapons (unlike the F18 Growler) too. But EW techs are advancing and today you can integrate highly capable jamming systems into the fighter itself. In future (possibly till the end of the decade), we will see AESA radars as powerful jammers too, so carrying dedicated jamming pods might be not needed anymore.
A good example is the Rafale with SPECTRA and the SEAD attacks it did in Libya for example. It was able to detect enemy radars, precisly locate them and guide even PGMs on them, all this without any specific pod, or weapon. They even denied the help of F18 Growlers or F16 CJs, that are dedicated SEAD versions, because any Rafale offers this high protection and detection capability, not only some like it is the case of the F18 Growlers.
Thales initially developed an EW pod for fighters as well, but some of the techs are already integrated into SPECTRA and it doesn't seems to be developed anymore:

well sancho ,this is one of the major asset of rafale's so called omni role capabilty ,as rafale doent need to built into another
separate platform like EA 18 growler as rafale itself is a spectular electronic attack aircraft thanks to it's SPECTRA Electronic
warfare suite ,& RBE 2 AESA radar .
IT's amazing capabilty in operation harmattan in libya in SEAD/DEAD role was demonstrated flawlessly by french airforce with
cueing it's AASM missile with help of spectra to supress libyan airdefences .

6)JAMMING THE ENEMY:

http://www.dassault-aviation.com/fileadmin/user_upload/redacteur/Defence/Rafale/FoxThree_Fox15.pdf

well thats not all it can fire 6 AASM at a single go

OFCOURSE we may see Spectra NG in future which is going to be more advanced than it's predesccor

 

[SQ8]

I wonder if there is space to integrate a Targeting Laser and FLIR into the Rafale like the F-16 Block 60 and eliminate the need for the Damocles or other TGP altogether??