Indian Agni BM Technology origin

[ravan]

@ moan moan
lets say A invented the world's first gun. A shares the cockin mechanism with B.
now B with the help of his frens makes a gun with the same cockin mechanism(A din give him the blue prints, he jus told him its working principle.)
yah so B makes a gun that has 10 times the range, 10 times muzzle velocity and maintainance free.
now a company comes and says that B has copied from A because A gave B some technical papers. so according to u B is incapable and has copied from A. this is wat ur sayin....
n u know wat this implies right? wah? wat was that? i thought heard a growl!

---------- Post added at 09:50 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:50 PM ----------

@ moan moan
lets say A invented the world's first gun. A shares the cockin mechanism with B.
now B with the help of his frens makes a gun with the same cockin mechanism(A din give him the blue prints, he jus told him its working principle.)
yah so B makes a gun that has 10 times the range, 10 times muzzle velocity and maintainance free.
now a company comes and says that B has copied from A because A gave B some technical papers. so according to u B is incapable and has copied from A. this is wat ur sayin....
n u know wat this implies right? wah? wat was that? i thought heard a growl!

 

[Myth_buster_1]

@ growl growl
ur failure to justify ur baseles accusations proves ur brain's incapacity. super sakti, huh! tryin to be smart are we... go learn wat propulsion exactly is? 1st stage is a copy it seems,... n ur tellin me ur so called source, whose content guarantee u give with ur life, got access to the missile's propulsion design...
i mean all missile builders across the globe must be sharin their propulsion systems with wisconsin so that they can analyze and tell... by god! n ur talkin bout my brain capacity...

Woow. sounds like you are having a brain seizure.
You need some help dude.

 

[Myth_buster_1]

@ moan moan
lets say A invented the world's first gun. A shares the cockin mechanism with B.
now B with the help of his frens makes a gun with the same cockin mechanism(A din give him the blue prints, he jus told him its working principle.)
yah so B makes a gun that has 10 times the range, 10 times muzzle velocity and maintainance free.
now a company comes and says that B has copied from A because A gave B some technical papers. so according to u B is incapable and has copied from A. this is wat ur sayin....
n u know wat this implies right? wah? wat was that? i thought heard a growl!

---------- Post added at 09:50 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:50 PM ----------

@ moan moan
lets say A invented the world's first gun. A shares the cockin mechanism with B.
now B with the help of his frens makes a gun with the same cockin mechanism(A din give him the blue prints, he jus told him its working principle.)
yah so B makes a gun that has 10 times the range, 10 times muzzle velocity and maintainance free.
now a company comes and says that B has copied from A because A gave B some technical papers. so according to u B is incapable and has copied from A. this is wat ur sayin....
n u know wat this implies right? wah? wat was that? i thought heard a growl!

You sound totally insane and it seems to me you are having a mental attack.
So if A makes cake the B makes cookies and C makes Pie? SO if A makes it at home the B doesnt and C does so at the end of the day India makes it at home. get it? I am trying to apply Indian analogy to help you out.

 

[ravan]

looks like ur havin the brain seizure.
mine s workin jus fine. i know its hard to accept dat ur only good for growlin. a vet perhaps maybe can fix u rite up! or wisconsin has a special vet jus for u with whom u share all ur valuable propulsion details with!

 

[ravan]

just outta curiosity growl growl, wat's ur profession?

 

[Myth_buster_1]

looks like ur havin the brain seizure.
mine s workin jus fine. i know its hard to accept dat ur only good for growlin. a vet perhaps maybe can fix u rite up! or wisconsin has a special vet jus for u with whom u share all ur valuable propulsion details with!

Coming from a guy who is in state of denial. I can not help you kid other then educate you with the reality.
Yet again Wisconsin project is treated like some blog by some one who has no idea what they are talking about.
Go to their website and read "About us" and you will hopefully learn what they are capable of and what they do.

 

[asq]

@ growl growl
ur failure to justify ur baseles accusations proves ur brain's incapacity. super sakti, huh! tryin to be smart are we... go learn wat propulsion exactly is? 1st stage is a copy it seems,... n ur tellin me ur so called source, whose content guarantee u give with ur life, got access to the missile's propulsion design...
i mean all missile builders across the globe must be sharin their propulsion systems with wisconsin so that they can analyze and tell... by god! n ur talkin bout my brain capacity...

u repeating his name twice shows superiority complex. Post the posts in a mannerfull way, and dont call brains incapcity etc etc.

Manners must be adhered to at all times, state your case in factual and mannerfull way. stick to facts and only facts.

---------- Post added at 07:04 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:03 PM ----------

just outta curiosity growl growl, wat's ur profession?

raven. No personal questions pleaase.

 

[asq]

looks like ur havin the brain seizure.
mine s workin jus fine. i know its hard to accept dat ur only good for growlin. a vet perhaps maybe can fix u rite up! or wisconsin has a special vet jus for u with whom u share all ur valuable propulsion details with!

Again u r talking about brain seizures.
It is a personal attack and is not needed, State the facts, and those u may or may not like them but that is his openion and u can state yours.
but i sugest no insults ans personal questions.

 

[asq]

You are right, we don't have scientist like A Q khan. so no indigenous tech(pakistani meaning).

Do not bring A.Q, Khan in this discussions, He is our Hero, and he is blamed wrongly by those who themselves have given Nuclear technology to others. I will not name names, but u know who they are.

Now u bringing A.Q. Khan in this disussion about jets is not in any way about Agni discussions..

 

[RiazHaq]

There is plenty of evidence and documentation from sources such as the Wisconsin Project to show that the Indian missiles and bombs are no more indigenous than Pakistan's. The fact is that neither India nor Pakistan were first to split the atom, or to develop modern rocket science. The Industrial Revolution didn't exactly start in India or Pakistan or even in Asia; it began in Europe and the rest of the world learned from it, even copied it.

The differences between India and Pakistan in terms of the technology know-how and the knowledge base are often highly exaggerated to portray India as "technology power house" and Pakistan as a backwater. Some of these analyses by Indian Brahman pundits and commentators have racial and religious overtones implying that somehow Brahmin or Hindu minds are superior to those of the people of other religions or castes in South Asia.

What is often ignored by such anti-Pakistan Indian analysts is the fact that neither of the two Indian pioneers, nuclear scientist Homi Bahbha and rocket scientist Abul Kalam, belong to the Hindu faith or the Brahmin caste. The false sense of Indian superiority is pushed by self-serving Indian and some western analysts to justify their own biased conclusions.

These analysts have fed what George Perkovich described in his book "India's Nuclear Bomb" on page 410 as "general Indian contempt for Pakistan's technical capabilities" and may cause serious miscalculations by the Indian security establishment about Pakistan's defense capabilities. Indian chauvinistic analyses have been put in perspective by another piece in Newsday (Friday, May 15, 1998; Page A5: "India Errs Nuclear Power Isn't Real Power"), in which George Perkovich talked about the rise in India of a radicalized, ultra-nationalistic BJP for the "glory of the Hindu race and rashtra (nation)". Perkovich added that "the Bharatiya Janata Party, has long felt that nuclear weapons offer a quicker ride to the top. Like atavistic nationalists elsewhere, they believe that pure explosive power will somehow earn respect and build pride."

The extreme right-wing influence on South Asian analysts has the potential for serious miscalculations by either India or Pakistan in the nuclear and the missile arena, and it does not augur well for the future of Indo-Pak region and the world at large.

Haq's Musings: India's "Indigenous" Copies of Foreign Nukes, Missiles

Country Info: India - Wisconsin Project on Nuclear Arms Control

 

[Jagjit_Singh_Arora]

^^^ As some member already said. We don't have scientist like AQ Khan. So no orginal (blue print) for us.

 

[toxic_pus]

Nice tactics Riaz. If a thread gets locked post the same article in another thread, with some convenient edits. Anyway, here is what I had written there in response to a part of your earlier post - the part that you have now conveniently edited out. I am tempted to call it a progress, but only just, because your blog continues spew the BS.

India copied the Scout missile to make it SLV3, and its 30-foot first stage later became the first stage of the Agni.

India's other missile, the "Prithvi" (earth), which uses a liquid-propelled motor to carry a one-ton payload 150 miles, resembles the widely sold Soviet Scud-B. Indian sources say that the Agni's second stage is a shortened version of the Prithvi, according to Gary Milhollin of the Wisconsin Project.

The first Agni (lets call it Agni TD) missile was a technology demonstrator and, as the name suggests, it was used to validate various technologies, most prominent of which was the Re-entry Vehicle (RV). The actual development of the missile was still underway and was quite far away from being fully functional. But testing of these technologies, like re-entry vehicle, terminal navigation etc. couldn't wait for the missile to be functional. It was then that a decision was taken to use SLV-3's 1st stage as missile booster and liquid fueled Prithvi as 2nd stage. Agni TD was born thus, as a testbed vehicle and not as a missile.

Agni II, has since been an all solid, 2 stage missile, very different in shape, size and performance. It no longer uses the SLV-3's 1st stage as booster or liquid fueled Prithvi as 2nd stage. It uses HTPB as its fuel as opposed to SLV-3's PBAN. Agni II is about 20 m in length, 1 m in diameter and has a launch weight of about 16 tons. Agni TD on the other hand was 16.7 m in length, 2 m in diameter and a launch weight of about a whopping 48 tons.

Also note, the chronology of Agni development is Agni TD, Agni II, Agni I, Agni III. The naming seems goofed up because the Agni is named on the basis of ascending order of range and not on the chronology of development. And Agni TD is no longer functional.

When Gary Milhollin wrote his piece in 1989, he was in no position to know about the details of Agni's development. He therefore had to rely on interpolation - the age old tactics of scare mongers. His piece was perhaps right for that time. But today, two decades hence, it has lost all its relevance.

Citing such article to prove that Indian missiles are not indigenous, is just a sign of desperation.

There is a new growler in town.

 

[RiazHaq]

Here's an excerpt from an interesting post by an Indian blogger Vijainder Thakur at sawf.com:

August 22, 2008 - While Indian defense industry has had little success with indigenous design and development of weapons system (Arjun, LCA) its record with license production has been equally dismal (Hawk trainers, Su-30MKI fighters and T-90S tanks).

It is amazing how after years of 'license production' of weapon systems like Gnats, MiG variants, Jaguars, Vijayanta tanks our defense industry has failed to come up with a product of its own that our defense forces are ready to buy.

Russian newspaper Kommersant, reporting on a deal between India and Rosoboronexport for the license production of Smerch multiple launch rocket system mocks Indian capabilities saying:

"India has had little success with military equipment production, and has had problems producing Russian Su-30MKI fighter jets and T-90S tanks, English Hawk training jets and French Scorpene submarines."

Rosoboronexport, is facilitating the manufacture of the Smerch multiple rocket system both in India and China and the news report hints at the radically different approaches adopted by the two countries towards assisted production.

China first developed an unlicensed analog to Smerch called the A-100 in the 90s. However, they were unable to indigenously develop solid-fuel rocket motor matching those of the Smerch system. So their current deal with Rosoboronexport for Smerch focuses only on the transfer of solid propellant rocket motor technology through Perm Powder Mill.

The Indian deal on the other hand simply entails license production in India. My hunch is it entails no transfer of critical technology.

The Russians will come here set up the plant for us and supply the critical manufacturing machinery. Indian labor and technical management will run the plant which will simply assemble the system. Critical components and the solid propellant rocket motor fuel will still come from Perm Powder Mill. However, bureaucrats in New Delhi and the nation as a whole will be happy. The Smerch system will be proudly paraded on Rajpath every republic day as an indigenous weapon system.

A decade or so down the line, Smerch will get outdated and India will negotiate a new deal with Russia for the license production of a new multiple rocket system for the Indian Army.

India's unenviable reputation as an Arms Manufacturer

China and India Make Smerch Rockets - Kommersant Moscow

 

[deepak75]

^^^^^^ Didn't you just post exactly the same content from another blog on another thread on this forum???? Normally bandwidth on forums is very precious. Why do you do this Sir? And even this post is from 2008

http://www.defence.pk/forums/wmd-missiles/6215-ancestry-indian-missile.html

 

[TheWarriorIndian]

^^^^^^ Didn't you just post exactly the same content from another blog on another thread on this forum???? Normally bandwidth on forums is very precious. Why do you do this Sir? And even this post is from 2008

http://www.defence.pk/forums/wmd-missiles/6215-ancestry-indian-missile.html

For obvious Reason