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Indians have been barging about how indigenous indian missile technology is while Pak's is just copy of everything. Infact both india and pak have no indigenous missile technology. Without foreigner input both countries program are non existent.

Wisconsin Project on Nuclear Arms Control - Stopping Arms Proliferation at the Source

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Missile Helpers

India did not build its missiles alone. The world's leading rocket producers gave essential help in research, development, and manufacture.

France


* Licensed production of sounding rockets in India
* Supplied the liquid-fuel Viking rocket engine, now the "Vikas" engine of the PSLV second stage
* Tested Indian-produced Vikas engine in France

Germany

* Delivered measurement and calibration equipment to ISRO laboratories
* Trained Indians in high-altitude tests of rocket motors and in glass and carbon fiber composites for rocket engine housings, nozzles and nose cones
* Designed high-altitude rocket test facilities
* Conducted wind tunnel tests for SLV-3 rocket
* Developed radio frequency interferometer for rocket guidance
* Developed computers for rocket payload guidance based on U.S. microprocessor
* Supplied documentation for a filament-winding machine to make rocket engine nozzles and housings
* Helped build Vikas rocket engine test facilities
* Designed hypersonic wind tunnel and heat transfer facilities
* Supplied rocket motor segment rings for PSLV

Russia

* Supplied surface-to-air missiles which became the models for the Prithvi missile and the second stage of the Agni medium-range missile
* Sold seven cryogenic rocket engines

United Kingdom

* Supplied components for Imarat Research Center, home to the Agni missile
* Supplied magnetrons for radar guidance and detonation systems to Defense Research and Development Laboratory

United States

* Launched U.S.-built rockets from Thumba test range
* Trained Dr. Abdul Kalam, designer of the Agni
* Introduced India to the Scout rocket, the model for the SLV-3 rocket and the Agni first stage
* Sent technical reports on the Scout rocket to Homi Bhabha, the head of the Indian Atomic Energy Commission
* Sold equipment that can simulate vibrations on a warhead





The Link Between Space Launch and Missile Technology


Presentation by Gary Milhollin
at the
Asia-Pacific Center for Security Studies

Honolulu, Hawaii


March 16, 2000


Introduction - History

The nuclear and missile arms race in South Asia is getting a lot of attention since the test explosions in 1998. The history of missile development there illustrates the close connection between space launch and missile technology.

In 1963, NASA began the Indian rocket program. NASA launched a U.S. sounding rocket from India's first test range, which the United States helped design. We also trained the first groups of Indian rocket scientists. NASA invited them to NASA's Wallops Island test site located southeast of Washington, DC in Virginia.

While at NASA, Mr. A.P. Kalam, a member of the Indian delegation, learned about the U.S. Scout rocket, which was being flown at Wallops Island. The Scout was the only four-stage, solid-fueled, small payload space launcher in the world. Indian engineers saw the Scout's blueprints during their visit. Two years later, the head of India's Atomic Energy Commission asked NASA for design information about the Scout. Mr. Kalam then proceeded to build India's first big rocket, the SLV-3, which became the only other four-stage, solid-fueled, small payload space launcher in the world. It was an exact copy of the Scout. The first stage of the Scout then became the first stage of India's first large ballistic missile, the Agni-I. The Agni-I's second stage was liquid-fueled, and was based on a surface-to-air missile called the SA-2 that India bought from Russia.
France also helped India master liquid-fuel technology by selling India the technology used to build the "Viking" engine used on the Ariane space launcher. India calls its version the "Vikas." The Agni also needed a guidance system. The German Space Agency obliged with a long tutorial in rocket guidance, which allowed India to develop a guidance system and learn how to produce its components (gyroscopes, accelerometers and so forth). The German Space Agency also tested a model of the first stage of the SLV-3 in one of its wind tunnels in Cologne and helped India build its own rocket test facilities. Germany also trained Indians in how to make composite materials.

Thus, India's biggest nuclear-capable missile is an international product. Under the mantle of peaceful space cooperation, the United States, France and Germany all helped create the most advanced nuclear missile in South Asia.

The story in Pakistan is similar. NASA launched Pakistan's first rocket in 1962. Pakistan's project was also led by the head of Pakistan's Atomic Energy Commission. We must wonder what was going through NASA's mind at this time - it keeps getting requests for space cooperation from the heads of atomic energy commissions. Apparently NASA thought this was normal. NASA also trained Pakistani rocket scientists at Wallops Island, and launched rockets in Pakistan until 1970.

_________________________________


Testimony of Gary Milhollin

Professor, University of Wisconsin Law School and
Director, Wisconsin Project on Nuclear Arms Control

Before the House Committee on Science

June 25, 1998

I am pleased to appear today before this distinguished Committee. In accordance with the Committee's request, I will discuss the U.S. policy of cooperation with foreign space programs and the risk that this cooperation could contribute to the spread of missile technology.

Helping India and Pakistan

I would like to begin with a bit of history. There is an important lesson to be learned about the origin of India's largest nuclear-capable missile, the "Agni."

In November 1963, NASA began the Indian space program by launching a U.S. rocket from Indian soil. Between 1963 and 1975, more than 350 U.S., French, Soviet and British rockets were launched from India's new Thumba Range, which the United States helped design. Thumba's first group of Indian engineers learned rocket launching and range operation from the United States.

Among these engineers was A. P. J. Abdul Kalam, the Agni missile's chief designer. After the Indian nuclear tests last month, he was also hailed as the "father" of the Indian atomic bomb. In 1963-64, he spent four months in training in the United States. He visited NASA's Langley Research Center in Virginia, where the U.S. Scout rocket was conceived, and the Wallops Island Flight Center in Virginia, where the Scout was being flown. The Scout was a four-stage, solid-fueled launcher used to orbit small payloads. It was also used to test the performance of reentry vehicles--a technology necessary to deliver nuclear warheads. According to NASA officials, the Indian engineers saw the blueprints of the Scout during their visit.

In 1965, the Indian government asked NASA for design information about the Scout. The request should have raised some eyebrows. It came from the head of the Indian Atomic Energy Commission. Nevertheless, NASA obligingly supplied the information. Kalam then proceeded to build India's first big rocket, the SLV-3, which was an exact copy of the Scout. The first stage of the SLV-3 is now the first stage of the Agni missile.

The second stage of the Agni is based on a surface-to-air missile known as the SA-2 that India bought from Russia. But in order to build the second stage, India also had to learn about liquid propulsion. For this, India turned to France. The French willingly transferred the technology needed to build a powerful liquid-fueled rocket motor called the "Viking," which powers the European Space Agency's Ariane satellite launcher. Thus, India learned how to build the first stage of the Agni from the United States, and how to build the second stage from France and Russia. The U.S. and French help was supposed to be for peaceful space exploration, but it wound up helping India's missile program.

The Agni also needed a guidance system. For this, India turned to the German Space Agency. In the 1970s and 1980s, Germany conducted an intensive tutorial for India in rocket guidance. The assistance--once again--was supposed to be for peaceful space exploration. But each step in the process for building a guidance system for India's space launcher moved India further down the road to building a guidance system for the Agni missile. In fact, India seems to have invented a new term to describe its progress. Again and again, India's Department of Space, in its annual reports, announced that it was able to "indigenize" another piece of essential equipment.

Germany also provided other help. The German Space Agency tested a model of the first stage of the SLV-3 (identical to the Scout) in its wind tunnel at Cologne-Portz. That first stage is now the first stage of the Agni missile. The German Space Agency also helped India build rocket test facilities, and trained Indians in the use of the special composite materials needed to make rocket nozzles and nosecones. I have included a graphic and a table in my testimony that summarizes the extensive foreign help that India received.

Thus, India's biggest nuclear missile is an international product. Under the guise of peaceful space cooperation, the United States, France and Germany helped create the most advanced nuclear missile in South Asia. The Agni's first stage, second stage and guidance system all come from Western technology, which proves beyond any doubt that you cannot help a country build space launchers without helping it build missiles.

The story in Pakistan is similar. In 1962, NASA launched Pakistan's first rocket, a U.S. made Nike-Cajun, in a project led by Tariq Mustafa, the senior scientific officer of the Pakistan Atomic Energy Commission. NASA also trained Pakistani rocket scientists at Wallops Island. Other NASA-sponsored launches followed until 1970. Thus, the first rockets in both India and Pakistan were launched by NASA under a policy of peaceful space cooperation. The result of that cooperation, however, has been long-range missiles tipped with nuclear warheads.

_________________________________-
Basically the brain of SLV and Agni are "German" R&D and proliferated by India.

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yes we did took help in setting up the infrastructure in the very early stages .but later on we developed our own sytems,the fact some of our test fails (unlike some other countries)shows that that we built the developed the missiles on our own and still is in the process of developing,and by the way the where does the article says the missile is a total copy of any other misile,and if dr kalam went and learn technical know how and developed things on his own then wats wrong,atleast not like a.q. khan whole stole the blueprints from the dutch labrotaries and started the pakistans nuclear programme
 
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Indians have been barging about how indigenous indian missile technology is while Pak's is just copy of everything. Infact both india and pak have no indigenous missile technology. Without foreigner input both countries program are non existent.

without link BS, i can understand ur frustrations but u see even if one goes by your argument. Look at the learning curve.

Our BMD project and large scale indigenous research and development projects. You see India has more scientist involve in defense and space projects more than there is total number of scientist and technocrats in pakistan. And result is ISRO etc. all there to see.

so happy cribbing.
 
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yes we did took help in setting up the infrastructure in the very early stages .but later on we developed our own sytems,the fact some of our test fails (unlike some other countries)shows that that we built the developed the missiles on our own and still is in the process of developing,and by the way the where does the article says the missile is a total copy of any other misile,and if dr kalam went and learn technical know how and developed things on his own then wats wrong,atleast not like a.q. khan whole stole the blueprints from the dutch labrotaries and started the pakistans nuclear programme

You indians are brought up deluded in your pathological lair society.
Kalam went to Sates, he studied 1960s Scout Missile and asked for the blue prints. Scout missile technology is a very part of Agni missile which has mix technology of Soviet SA-2, German, French, systems. Still today india relies heavenly on foreigner technologies like always.
 
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without link BS, i can understand ur frustrations but u see even if one goes by your argument. Look at the learning curve.

Our BMD project and large scale indigenous research and development projects. You see India has more scientist involve in defense and space projects more than there is total number of scientist and technocrats in pakistan. And result is ISRO etc. all there to see.

so happy cribbing.

I have already provided you the link. but of course. you indians are brought up like this deluded in your pathological lair society. Indians are even more brain washed then north koreans.

your BMD is still mix of foreigner technology. I will post a new thread on this topic.
 
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The first stage of the Scout then became the first stage of India's first large ballistic missile, the Agni-I. The Agni-I's second stage was liquid-fueled, and was based on a surface-to-air missile called the SA-2 that India bought from Russia.
France also helped India master liquid-fuel technology by selling India the technology used to build the "Viking" engine used on the Ariane space launcher. India calls its version the "Vikas." The Agni also needed a guidance system. The German Space Agency obliged with a long tutorial in rocket guidance, which allowed India to develop a guidance system and learn how to produce its components (gyroscopes, accelerometers and so forth). The German Space Agency also tested a model of the first stage of the SLV-3 in one of its wind tunnels in Cologne and helped India build its own rocket test facilities. Germany also trained Indians in how to make composite materials.
 
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>>Without foreigner input both countries program are non existent.

1. Why did you bring Pakistan into picture?
2. Via ISRO we Indians gain though if we get helps from other nations (if what you said was true)
3. Pakistan can also get such help from other nations and gain but why has it not tried?

Try answering the 3rd question please. And one can easily find out how much/what intentions you have.
 
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Let me spoil the party here.

Indian missile program is different from Indian Space program. So Agni being inspired from SLV-3 is not a possibility.
I got upset by seeing this thread to such an extend that I though (for a sec) ISRO missions and Agni are from the same Organization ;)

Thanks dude... Hope you can understand how upset I was to write an erroneous reply... :)
 
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The first stage of the Scout then became the first stage of India's first large ballistic missile, the Agni-I. The Agni-I's second stage was liquid-fueled, and was based on a surface-to-air missile called the SA-2 that India bought from Russia.

Agni - I : Learn from people who did it. Master the existing technology. And this is long long time back. Well done India.

France also helped India master liquid-fuel technology by selling India the technology used to build the "Viking" engine used on the Ariane space launcher. India calls its version the "Vikas."

Liquid fuel technology: :what:
Collaboration with ISRO ! The technology apartheid is still at work and we were denied cryogenic engines. India developed its own. Just because someone gave a few manuals of Viking engine and a sample piece, get real, don't paint the town red.

http://article.wn.com/view/2010/01/26/Isro_tests_third_biggest_rocket_motor/

Proud of ISRO to reach the moon from the humble beginning.
Since Pakistan in to this, can you list your achievements in space technology ?


The Agni also needed a guidance system. The German Space Agency obliged with a long tutorial in rocket guidance, which allowed India to develop a guidance system and learn how to produce its components (gyroscopes, accelerometers and so forth). The German Space Agency also tested a model of the first stage of the SLV-3 in one of its wind tunnels in Cologne and helped India build its own rocket test facilities. Germany also trained Indians in how to make composite materials.

Agni is a part of weapons program from DRDO. SLV-3 is developed by ISRO. Are you for real ? An utter cheap post growler.
:rofl: :cheers:
 
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American and Russian (Soviet) space and missiles programmes started from technologies taken from Germans.
Every country has borrowed rocket technology from others in the initial stages and improved upon them.
 
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>>Without foreigner input both countries program are non existent.

1. Why did you bring Pakistan into picture?
2. Via ISRO we Indians gain though if we get helps from other nations (if what you said was true)
3. Pakistan can also get such help from other nations and gain but why has it not tried?

Try answering the 3rd question please. And one can easily find out how much/what intentions you have.

Answer to #3.
Pakistan does not have enough cash with them like india to penetrate deep in western market for almost every other solutions.
 
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Cryogenic rocket engine to propel India into elite club

Bangalore: Come April 15, India will join an elite club of five other nations having the cryogenic engine technology that would give enhanced power to its rockets to lift off into space.

On that day, the Indian Space Research Organisation (Isro) will demonstrate the indigenously developed cryogenic engine upper stage technology while launching the advanced Rs150-crore GSAT-4 satellite onboard the geo-stationary satellite launch vehicle (GSLV)-D3 rocket, Isro chairman K Radhakrishnan said. The lift-off of GSLV-D3 has been scheduled at 4.27 pm on April 15 from Satish Dhawan Space Centre (SDSC) in Sriharikota.

The cryogenic engine for the Rs175-crore GSLV-D3 will provide almost twice the power to lift-off as compared to the existing capacity of rockets.

Isro scientists said a cryogenic engine was a rocket motor designed to maintain liquid fuels in liquid form at temperatures much below zero degree Celsius.

The engine components are also cooled so that the liquid fuel does not boil to a gaseous state while being fed to the engine. The powerful thrust comes from the rapid expansion from liquid to gas with the gas emerging from the motor at very high speed.

Cryogenic engines are known to be the most powerful rocket engines. The other five countries in possession of this engine technology are the US, Russia, France, Japan and China.

“Isro has achieved the feat after 18 years of research in the technology which was initiated when the pact with Russia (to supply cryogenic engines to India) did not go on expected lines,” said Radhakrishnan. The technology is expected to reduce India’s dependency on Russia or any other country for the engine technology.

“However, it will be two months before we announce that the project has been successful as we have to carry out several tests. It will have a huge application when it will be launched on commercial basis,” said RR Navalgund, director, Isro Space Applications Centre (ISAC).


Cryogenic rocket engine to propel India into elite club - dnaindia.com


:cheers:
 
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