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Indian Acquisition of the Gorshkov

Very true.. hence the striving for technology to built an indigenous carrier.. ditto is the reason behind building LCA... Develop our own capabilities so that our future generations don't have to face this blackmailing and arm twisting :) .. so now you know the importance of LCA, indigenous carrier and INS Arihant.. they might not be perfect but they're the first step in the right direction none the less!! after all we don't have "friends" like you guys do eh ;)
 
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Posting updates only:

Contracts & Key Events


Nov 16/09:

Amidst rumors of major British defense budget cuts, The Guardian reports that India has expressed formal interest in the 65,000t CVF/Queen Elizabeth class carrier program. The UK MoD is desperately looking for long-term budget savings, but canceling either of its full-size carriers at this point would be rival the cost of finishing them:

“According to senior defence sources, Whitehall officials are examining the feasibility of selling one of the carriers. It is understood they are planning to put forward the option as part of the government’s strategic defence review, which will start early next year…. “Selling a carrier is one very serious option,” a defence source said this weekend, although the government is a long way from committing to any sale. It could take between six and 12 months to reach a decision, he added.”

Each Queen Elizabeth carrier costs about $3.5 billion, and the negotiating difference around the Admiral Gorshkov is currently around $2.2+ billion. The question is whether India would be able to buy one of the CVF carriers for less than the UK paid, in order to offer the Treasury monies that it could not otherwise obtain from the CVF program. If a refund could be forthcoming from the Russians, and a deal done with the British, investing the Vikramaditya’s $3 billion could net India a comletely new ship rather than an old and refurbished one, with double the Gorshkov’s aerial complement. Key questions include whether those deals could be secured, and whether India is prepared to wait until 2016 for the British carrier, as opposed to 2013 (and sliding…) for Gorshkov.

Then again, $2.2 – $2.5 billion could also secure India an America class light carrier from Northrop Grumman, with a similar tonnage and aerial complement to the Gorshkov, but markedly better electronics and defensive systems. If India begins to look beyond Russia for options, Britain’s CVF program is not its sole alternative.

Nov 1/09:

The Times of India reports that INS Viraat is now on the verge of completing its sea-acceptance trials and work-up phase, after an 18-month-long comprehensive refit and upgrade program in Mumbai and Kochi. This will give India an aircraft carrier again. The 28,000-tonne carrier will complete its 50th year as an operational warship in November 2009, having serves as both HMS Hermes and INS Viraat.

INS Vikramaditya: Waiting for Gorshkov…
 
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Gorshkov price is settled with Russia at $2.3 billion IDRW.ORG

The price of aircraft carrier Gorshkov has been finally settled at US $2.3 billion.

Notwithstanding some bitterness, the Indian side finally agreed to pay this price after being told by the Prime Minister’s Office that the high level of friendship with Russia has to be maintained and an agreement had to be worked out, preferably before Manmohan Singh left for Moscow Dec 6.

That was indeed done on the morning of Dec 4, Navy Day, with a visiting Russian delegation, according to the latest issue of India Strategic defence magazine. Defence ministry officials refused to comment on the development.

The Indian side had asked for some additional onboard equipment at least as part of the increased price, but within that price, which the Russians agreed to. Details of that were still being finalized with the Russians 10 days later in the Indian capital.

The original agreement with the Russians signed in 2004 was for $974 million for the carrier’s refurbishment and upgrade, Gorshkov itself being offered free of cost. The delivery was then set for 2008.

In 2007, Rosoboronexport, the sole Russian agency responsible for selling and exporting weapon systems, indicated a delay in the delivery of the carrier. In 2008, it demanded an additional $1.2 billion in writing saying it had made mistakes in calculations and that it had to many more miles of wiring for instance than it had originally thought.

After that, during the negotiations to settle the dispute arising from this new demand, Rosoboronexport representatives mentioned varying figures asking for still more money, taking the cost of the carrier to $2.9 billion.

Rising prices of oil, which is consumed during the trials, was among the reasons quoted for this second revision of the Gorshkov cost.

The Indian side had agreed to consider the written request for additional $1.2 billion but declined to entertain anything above that.

Well placed sources from Moscow told India Strategic that the Russian government asked Rosoboronexport to come down to $2.4 billion and it also submitted a letter in this regard to the Indian Navy’s negotiating team.

Finally, India agreed to pay a total of $2.3 billion but with a request for some additional equipment, and the Russians agreed to that.

India has also agreed for delivery of the carrier, which the Navy urgently needs, by 2012 without any penalty.

It may be noted that the Russian government paid the Sevmash shipyard, which is doing the repair work on Gorshkov, $250 million as credit to ensure that the work did not stop. India had paid $600 million at the time of the contract, and another $122 million in August this year.

India has already paid more than $600 million for 16 Mig 29K carrier borne aircraft, the first four of which have been delivered at the INS Hansa, the naval base in Goa.

The Indian Navy has asked for 29 more Mig 29Ks, the proposal for which has been cleared by the government. An order is likely to be placed soon.

These deals, although related to the Gorshkov, are separate and the Mig 29K aircraft will operate from both the Gorshkov and India’s first indigenous aircraft carrier now under construction at the Kochi shipyard in southern India.

There has been no official confirmation of the price from either side but Russian sources said that the agreed price was “close to what the Indian Navy wanted”.

The Indian prime minister’s delegation did announce though from Moscow that the agreement over the price had been reached.

“We do not know if the two sides shared some vodka over the deal, but there is goodwill between the negotiators on both the sides following the conclusion of the price,” said an informed source.
 
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Gorshkov price is settled with Russia at $2.3 billion IDRW.ORG

The price of aircraft carrier Gorshkov has been finally settled at US $2.3 billion.

Notwithstanding some bitterness, the Indian side finally agreed to pay this price after being told by the Prime Minister’s Office that the high level of friendship with Russia has to be maintained and an agreement had to be worked out, preferably before Manmohan Singh left for Moscow Dec 6.

That was indeed done on the morning of Dec 4, Navy Day, with a visiting Russian delegation, according to the latest issue of India Strategic defence magazine. Defence ministry officials refused to comment on the development.

The Indian side had asked for some additional onboard equipment at least as part of the increased price, but within that price, which the Russians agreed to. Details of that were still being finalized with the Russians 10 days later in the Indian capital.

The original agreement with the Russians signed in 2004 was for $974 million for the carrier’s refurbishment and upgrade, Gorshkov itself being offered free of cost. The delivery was then set for 2008.

In 2007, Rosoboronexport, the sole Russian agency responsible for selling and exporting weapon systems, indicated a delay in the delivery of the carrier. In 2008, it demanded an additional $1.2 billion in writing saying it had made mistakes in calculations and that it had to many more miles of wiring for instance than it had originally thought.

After that, during the negotiations to settle the dispute arising from this new demand, Rosoboronexport representatives mentioned varying figures asking for still more money, taking the cost of the carrier to $2.9 billion.

Rising prices of oil, which is consumed during the trials, was among the reasons quoted for this second revision of the Gorshkov cost.

The Indian side had agreed to consider the written request for additional $1.2 billion but declined to entertain anything above that.

Well placed sources from Moscow told India Strategic that the Russian government asked Rosoboronexport to come down to $2.4 billion and it also submitted a letter in this regard to the Indian Navy’s negotiating team.

Finally, India agreed to pay a total of $2.3 billion but with a request for some additional equipment, and the Russians agreed to that.

India has also agreed for delivery of the carrier, which the Navy urgently needs, by 2012 without any penalty.

It may be noted that the Russian government paid the Sevmash shipyard, which is doing the repair work on Gorshkov, $250 million as credit to ensure that the work did not stop. India had paid $600 million at the time of the contract, and another $122 million in August this year.

India has already paid more than $600 million for 16 Mig 29K carrier borne aircraft, the first four of which have been delivered at the INS Hansa, the naval base in Goa.

The Indian Navy has asked for 29 more Mig 29Ks, the proposal for which has been cleared by the government. An order is likely to be placed soon.

These deals, although related to the Gorshkov, are separate and the Mig 29K aircraft will operate from both the Gorshkov and India’s first indigenous aircraft carrier now under construction at the Kochi shipyard in southern India.

There has been no official confirmation of the price from either side but Russian sources said that the agreed price was “close to what the Indian Navy wanted”.

The Indian prime minister’s delegation did announce though from Moscow that the agreement over the price had been reached.

“We do not know if the two sides shared some vodka over the deal, but there is goodwill between the negotiators on both the sides following the conclusion of the price,” said an informed source.

How do we know that there is not going to be any more delays. If India had not paid the money yet, then it should try to get the air craft carrier some where else. Sounds like India is being told to bend over 1 more time for another screw.
 
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And it was supposed to be “a gift by Russia to India", if i am not wrong.
 
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Guys what you think is this a fair deal ?.

Glad to see that India and Russia have finally reached to a negotiation. This is another sign of improved Indo-Russia friendship. This was one major block between the ties. After Obama became a president, India got a bit skeptical and it looked for allies apart from US. Indo-Russia friendship is time tested and both respect each other. This is the tight time to get this on a new level. Below is good link to read.

The Hindu : Opinion / News Analysis : Revitalising India-Russia ties

I must say India is doing a good job in diplomacy. India is having good relations with all except few unpreviledged ones!!
 
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given the facts that russia and india have settled on this deal for many times, how it can be assured that russian won't lift the price again?

let's wait and see, I would but the experience tells that india won't get the AC unless india pays more than 2.3 billion.
 
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given the facts that russia and india have settled on this deal for many times, how it can be assured that russian won't lift the price again?

let's wait and see, I would but the experience tells that india won't get the AC unless india pays more than 2.3 billion.

And Hear is the Man With "CRISTAL BALL"

Sir Why don't use that Cristal Ball for China and give some advantage for your people......
 
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And Hear is the Man With "CRISTAL BALL"

Sir Why don't use that Cristal Ball for China and give some advantage for your people......

I am New here but i was reading this PK DEFENCE FORAM for year or so... and i see this fellow... dragging and distroying every topic with how china's builing,trains,air port and roads are batter then India...


I am not able to understand one thing that if Indan is sooo lower class and SUB HUMANS than why on the GODS name this fellowo is westing his valuable time in Indian defence:what:

Please Sir, We are SUB HUMAN........... please utilise you time some where else...... i hope there are enough work in china for you and YOUR CRISTA BALL so :wave: and have a nice time in china.....

could you please stop trolling? it is a very reasonable question to ask how russia can be trusted on such projects.

please keep in your mind that russia currently still refuse to deliver IL-76 to india and China even when both these two countries have contracts on hand and are willing to pay the full listed price.

your emotional reaction actually explains why we had the gap.
 
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