Indian Acquisition of the Gorshkov
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Gabbar
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Gabbar
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Russia, India to sign new deal for Gorshkov overhaul::
Russia, India to sign new deal for Gorshkov overhaul- Hindustan Times
A new deal between India and Russia on the funds for the refit of aircraft carrier Admiral Gorshkov will be signed in mid-October, the head of the state technology corporation said on Thursday.
"An additional agreement will be signed," Sergei Chemezov, head of Rostekhnologii, told a news conference in Moscow.
Under the original $1.5 billion 2004 contract between Russia's state-run arms exporter Rosoboronexport and the Indian Navy, which includes delivery of MiG-29K Fulcrum carrier-based fighters, the work on the aircraft carrier was to have been completed in 2008.
However, Russia later claimed it had underestimated the scale and the cost of the modernisation, and asked for an additional $1.2 billion, which New Delhi said was "exorbitant".
After long-running delays and disputes, India offered in February 2008 to raise the refit costs for the aircraft carrier, docked at the Sevmash shipyard in northern Russia for the past 12 years, by up to $600 million.
Russia said it was not satisfied with the proposed amount and the issue of the additional funding remains unresolved.
Talks on the additional funding agreement are currently underway. Russia has pledged to finish the Admiral Gorshkov's overhaul as soon as possible and deliver it to India in 2012 if the additional $1.2 billion funding is provided by New Delhi.
According to Russian media, India has no alternative but to allocate the required funds, despite recent objections from the government's accounting office, because the Indian Navy desperately needs to replace its INS Viraat, which, although currently operational, is now 50 years old.
After modernisation, the carrier will join the Indian Navy as INS Vikramaditya, and is expected to be seaworthy for 30 years.
Admiral Gorshkov is a modified Kiev class aircraft carrier, originally named Baku.
The ship was laid down in 1978 at the Nikolayev South shipyard in Ukraine, launched in 1982, and commissioned with the Soviet Navy in 1987.
It was renamed after the collapse of the Soviet Union in 1991.
In 1994, following a boiler room explosion, the Admiral Gorshkov sat in dock for a year for repairs. After a brief return to service in 1995, it was finally withdrawn from service in 1996 and put up for sale.
The ship's displacement is 45,000 tonnes. It has a maximum speed of 32 knots and an endurance of 13,500 nautical miles (25,000 km) at a cruising speed of 18 knots.
Russia, India to sign new deal for Gorshkov overhaul- Hindustan Times
A new deal between India and Russia on the funds for the refit of aircraft carrier Admiral Gorshkov will be signed in mid-October, the head of the state technology corporation said on Thursday.
"An additional agreement will be signed," Sergei Chemezov, head of Rostekhnologii, told a news conference in Moscow.
Under the original $1.5 billion 2004 contract between Russia's state-run arms exporter Rosoboronexport and the Indian Navy, which includes delivery of MiG-29K Fulcrum carrier-based fighters, the work on the aircraft carrier was to have been completed in 2008.
However, Russia later claimed it had underestimated the scale and the cost of the modernisation, and asked for an additional $1.2 billion, which New Delhi said was "exorbitant".
After long-running delays and disputes, India offered in February 2008 to raise the refit costs for the aircraft carrier, docked at the Sevmash shipyard in northern Russia for the past 12 years, by up to $600 million.
Russia said it was not satisfied with the proposed amount and the issue of the additional funding remains unresolved.
Talks on the additional funding agreement are currently underway. Russia has pledged to finish the Admiral Gorshkov's overhaul as soon as possible and deliver it to India in 2012 if the additional $1.2 billion funding is provided by New Delhi.
According to Russian media, India has no alternative but to allocate the required funds, despite recent objections from the government's accounting office, because the Indian Navy desperately needs to replace its INS Viraat, which, although currently operational, is now 50 years old.
After modernisation, the carrier will join the Indian Navy as INS Vikramaditya, and is expected to be seaworthy for 30 years.
Admiral Gorshkov is a modified Kiev class aircraft carrier, originally named Baku.
The ship was laid down in 1978 at the Nikolayev South shipyard in Ukraine, launched in 1982, and commissioned with the Soviet Navy in 1987.
It was renamed after the collapse of the Soviet Union in 1991.
In 1994, following a boiler room explosion, the Admiral Gorshkov sat in dock for a year for repairs. After a brief return to service in 1995, it was finally withdrawn from service in 1996 and put up for sale.
The ship's displacement is 45,000 tonnes. It has a maximum speed of 32 knots and an endurance of 13,500 nautical miles (25,000 km) at a cruising speed of 18 knots.
ouiouiouiouiouioui
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scrap machine..........good for making....museum
Thats what I think too...but the thing to consider is that India needs an AC to keep up training.Long term plans of the IN involve indigenous AC's so the training cannot be lost.Though 3 billion for a training craft seems way out there.Isn't it like half the defense budget of Pakistan?
Gabbar
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Not a big fan of this old AC junk but we dont have any other choice. You probably dont want any gap in the service either. No body else was offering anything within same time frame at that time. Hopfully this is the only AC we will ever buy, we need to increase indigneous capabilities.
Haanzo
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sorry gabbar it really tips me off when someone tells VIKRAMADITYA as OLD JUNK (YOU CAN CALL GORKY AS OLD JUNK) man you should know better ..... yes i agree it might be costly but it certainly wont be a tin can ...i assure you of that
every part of the aircraft carrier is strengthened including the hull ,a new buging thing at the front-base of the carrier is added , the deck space is increased , a new ski jump specifically designed for the gorky
new electerical systems ,navigation ,radar, powerplant everything is new and i suspect even russiand wont have such an advanced ship in her weight category ....and to add all that mig-29k ---- THE BEST RUSSIAN CARRIER BORNE AIRCRAFT -su-33 are too huge to operate on sucha a small ship...and they are not even close to present mig-29 k in terms of sophestication
russians are not selling on old tin can ...itll be one hell of a ship when she is in indian waters
sancho
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But that's the problem now, it maybe comes only one year before the indigenous carrier comes. So in terms of training, it won't be a big benefit!
When the deal was signed it was supposed to come in 2008 the delay as not foreseen and anyway is there a guarantee that the indigenous AC will come by 2014?
sancho
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Yes, but I think we was patient enough and this delay is just too much. Of course not, but Viraat is upgraded to serve longer and with the money of Gorshkov you can easily build another indigenous AC.
Gabbar
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India pays USD 102 million to speed up refit of Gorshkov
Agencies
Moscow, Sept 8:
India has paid another staggering USD 102 million to Russia, to speed up refit work on the aircraft carrier Admiral Gorshkov, pending a final agreement on a huge price hike of almost USD 2 billion demanded by Moscow.
"The advance payment of USD 102 million has given a fillip to repairs and refit works. The workforce would be increased to 2500 for work in two shifts," spokesperson of the Sevmash shipyard Anastasia Nikitinskaya said as Russian officials committed that they would meet the 2012 delivery deadline.
The increasing delay in the delivery of the warship has been described by President Dmitry Medvedev as the 'sole irritant' in Indo-Russian relations.
The issue came up in the delegation level talks between President Pratibha Devisingh Patil and her Soviet counterpart on September 3, during her first state visit to the country.
Director General of Severodvinsk-based Sevmash shipyard Nikolai Kalistratov along with his Chief Engineer was also present at the talks held at Kremlin.
Under the initial USD 1.5 billion contract signed in New Delhi in January 2004, Russia was to deliver retrofitted aircraft carrier in August 2008.
However, the Sevmash shipyard later demanded that USD 974 million allocated for the upgradation of the 44.5 thousand ton vessel, given to the Indian Navy 'free of cost', was not sufficient and demanded an additional sum of USD 2.2 billion. According to Chairman of Russian Technologies State Corporation, Sergei Chemezev, the talks are currently underway for negotiating a new agreement, which may be signed in mid-October. An Indian delegation is expected in Moscow later this month to finalise the accord, even as media reports have suggested that New Delhi's final offer was to pay an additional amount of USD 1.2 billion. Sources here say that although the cost escalation was a 'natural' process due to changed requirements of the Indian Navy, a lot of money paid by India had 'dried up' in the banks for almost four years, with practically no work done on the warship.
Upgradation of Gorshkov, to be inducted as INS Vikramaditya, is expected to be completed in 2011, after which it would undergo sea-trials for delivery in 2012.
RPK
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Indian Navy to induct MiG-29 Ks by Oct- Politics/Nation-News-The Economic Times
NEW DELHI: The first four ship-borne Russian-made Mig-29 K/KUB fighter jets, purchased for the aircraft carrier Admiral Gorshkov, will be inducted
in the Indian Navy by October, officials here said.
Pilot training for the squadron, to be named Black Panther, were completed in the US and Russia, said a senior Indian Navy official. The jets were purchased by the Indian Navy as part of the $740 million contract signed in January 2004 for Admiral Gorshkov, to be commissioned as INS Vikramaditya in the navy.
"The pilots were sent to US for deck landing training and the QFIs (qualified flying instructors) to Russia for conversion flying (for converting to different aircraft). The pilots will do the conversion flying in Goa under the supervision of QFIs," the official told IANS on condition of anonymity.
Four to five batches comprising four pilots each had gone to the US for the deck landing training. As the 45,000-tonne Kiev class aircraft carrier Gorshkov is scheduled to be inducted in service only by 2011 after its refurbishment, the aircraft will be based on shore.
The navy will be getting 12 MiG 29K single-seater aircraft and four MiG 29KUB double-seater trainer aircraft in flyaway condition. The trainer version is similar to the single-seater but with a slightly reduced operational range. The contract also stipulates the procurement of hardware for pilot training and aircraft maintenance, including flight simulators, and interactive ground and sea-based training systems.
The MiG 29K have arrestor gear and stronger landing gear for carrier landings, folding wings and rust proofing to reduce corrosion from salt water. Features of the aircraft include a fully digitised glass cockpit, improved engine protection against ingestion of foreign particles (like birds), a multi-mode radar and increased range due to increase in internal fuel capacity.
The MiG-29K multi-role carrier-based fighter is designed to air cover the ship grouping, gain air superiority and destroy sea surface and ground targets with guided high-precision weapons, day and night, in any weather.
The aircraft, the first bought by the navy after the Sea Harriers, will also be capable of playing the role of an air refueller. The contract with MiG will ensure that the navy gets the entire spectrum of services, including a full mission simulator.
NEW DELHI: The first four ship-borne Russian-made Mig-29 K/KUB fighter jets, purchased for the aircraft carrier Admiral Gorshkov, will be inducted
in the Indian Navy by October, officials here said.
Pilot training for the squadron, to be named Black Panther, were completed in the US and Russia, said a senior Indian Navy official. The jets were purchased by the Indian Navy as part of the $740 million contract signed in January 2004 for Admiral Gorshkov, to be commissioned as INS Vikramaditya in the navy.
"The pilots were sent to US for deck landing training and the QFIs (qualified flying instructors) to Russia for conversion flying (for converting to different aircraft). The pilots will do the conversion flying in Goa under the supervision of QFIs," the official told IANS on condition of anonymity.
Four to five batches comprising four pilots each had gone to the US for the deck landing training. As the 45,000-tonne Kiev class aircraft carrier Gorshkov is scheduled to be inducted in service only by 2011 after its refurbishment, the aircraft will be based on shore.
The navy will be getting 12 MiG 29K single-seater aircraft and four MiG 29KUB double-seater trainer aircraft in flyaway condition. The trainer version is similar to the single-seater but with a slightly reduced operational range. The contract also stipulates the procurement of hardware for pilot training and aircraft maintenance, including flight simulators, and interactive ground and sea-based training systems.
The MiG 29K have arrestor gear and stronger landing gear for carrier landings, folding wings and rust proofing to reduce corrosion from salt water. Features of the aircraft include a fully digitised glass cockpit, improved engine protection against ingestion of foreign particles (like birds), a multi-mode radar and increased range due to increase in internal fuel capacity.
The MiG-29K multi-role carrier-based fighter is designed to air cover the ship grouping, gain air superiority and destroy sea surface and ground targets with guided high-precision weapons, day and night, in any weather.
The aircraft, the first bought by the navy after the Sea Harriers, will also be capable of playing the role of an air refueller. The contract with MiG will ensure that the navy gets the entire spectrum of services, including a full mission simulator.
Never Trust A Used Carrier Salesman
September 29, 2009: Indian officers have admitted that they were partially at fault in the billion dollar aircraft carrier Gorshkov fiasco. It seems it was not all the fault of the Russians that the refurbishment of the decommissioned Russian carrier Gorshkov cost a billion dollars more, and took several years longer. The Indians admit that, when they signed the deal in 2004, they had not had engineers go over the Gorshkov, and agreed, after a cursory inspection, that many electrical and mechanical components, buried within the ships hull, were serviceable. It turned out that many of those components were not good-to-go, and had to be replaced, at great expense. Shortly after the contract was signed, the Russians discovered that the shipyard had misplaced the blueprints for the Gorshkov, and things went downhill from there.
After four years of haggling over Russian demands for more money, India agreed to pay about a billion dollars more, instead of the original (2004) agreed on $1.5 billion, for a Russian shipyard to refurbish an old, damaged, aircraft carrier (the Admiral Gorshkov) for Indian use. Last year, Russia threatened to give the Gorshkov back to the Russian Navy if the Indians didn't, come up with more money.
All this was a sad tale of bungling, corruption, greed and lost blueprints. Work on the 44,000 ton Gorshkov was about half completed, when it was supposed to have been delivered last year, and renamed the INS Vikramaditya. But now delivery has been delayed until 2012. The Russians admitted that this project suffered from inept planning, shoddy workmanship, and poor management, and they wanted India to pay for most of those mistakes. The Indians were not amused, and played hard ball, making much of the fact that India was now the biggest customer for Russian military exports. Russia was also aware that India was increasingly turning to more expensive (and more capable) Western arms suppliers.
The original price for the refurbishment of the of the Gorshkov was $1.5 billion. Building a Gorshkov type carrier today would cost about $4 billion, and take eight years. Two years ago, the Russians admitted there were problems, and demanded another half billion dollars to make it all right. India went along with that. But last year, the Russians raised the price again, and now wanted $3.5 billion for the job, and an additional four years. The Indians refused to pay. The Russians were willing to admit to mistakes and put things right, for a price. For example, the boss of Sevmash naval shipyard, when the Gorshkov deal was negotiated, was fired and under criminal investigation, on suspicion of financial mismanagement.
Naturally, the Indians were not happy with all this, and at first insisted that the Russian government (which owns many of the entities involved) make good on the original deal. India sent its own team of technical experts to Russia, and their report apparently confirmed what the Russians reported, about shipyard officials low-balling the cost of the work needed. This is a common tactic for firms building weapons for their own country. It gets more complicated when you try to pull that sort of thing on a foreign customer. The Russian government initially offered to cover some of the overrun cost. But then they insisted that India cover most of it, or lose the ship entirely. Nothing was said about whether or not the Indians would get any of their money refunded. As Indian anger rose, the Russians began to realize that they would have to eat most of the additional mistakes, or risk losing billions in future sales.
The Admiral Gorshkov entered service in 1987, but was inactivated in 1996 because it was too expensive to operate on a post Cold War budget. This attracted the attention of India, which was looking for a way to expand their carrier aviation capabilities. India is currently building another carrier, from scratch, but that 40,000 ton vessel won't be ready until 2015. India's sole current aircraft carrier, the 29,000 ton INS Viraat, just emerged from 18 months in a shipyard getting maintenance and upgrades, which left India with no carrier capability. This was to have been avoided by the timely arrival (last year) of the refurbished Russian carrier. If that had happened, the INS Viraat would have been retired in 2012, after 53 years service (for Britain and India). But now the INS Viraat will get its engine and hull refurbished, and its electronics upgraded, and possibly serve for another decade.
Under the terms of the new deal, the INS Vikramaditya will be ready for sea trials by the end of 2012. Thus by 2015, India will have two large carriers in operation, and some bitter memories of their experience with the Russians over the Gorshkov.
Naval Air: Never Trust A Used Carrier Salesman
-------------------------------------------------------------
Russia is a strong ally of India but it should not take Indian military orders for granted. As the article clearly points out, India is gradually turning towards Western nations for military cooperation and if the Russians continue with this unprofessional behavior, they might loose their biggest military customer.
That said, India would have spent $4 billion to build a 40,000 ton aircraft carrier. But for $3.5 billion, the Indians are getting completely refitted aircraft carrier from the Russians along with the deadly MiG-29Ks. It is still a good deal and India will still go along with it.
September 29, 2009: Indian officers have admitted that they were partially at fault in the billion dollar aircraft carrier Gorshkov fiasco. It seems it was not all the fault of the Russians that the refurbishment of the decommissioned Russian carrier Gorshkov cost a billion dollars more, and took several years longer. The Indians admit that, when they signed the deal in 2004, they had not had engineers go over the Gorshkov, and agreed, after a cursory inspection, that many electrical and mechanical components, buried within the ships hull, were serviceable. It turned out that many of those components were not good-to-go, and had to be replaced, at great expense. Shortly after the contract was signed, the Russians discovered that the shipyard had misplaced the blueprints for the Gorshkov, and things went downhill from there.
After four years of haggling over Russian demands for more money, India agreed to pay about a billion dollars more, instead of the original (2004) agreed on $1.5 billion, for a Russian shipyard to refurbish an old, damaged, aircraft carrier (the Admiral Gorshkov) for Indian use. Last year, Russia threatened to give the Gorshkov back to the Russian Navy if the Indians didn't, come up with more money.
All this was a sad tale of bungling, corruption, greed and lost blueprints. Work on the 44,000 ton Gorshkov was about half completed, when it was supposed to have been delivered last year, and renamed the INS Vikramaditya. But now delivery has been delayed until 2012. The Russians admitted that this project suffered from inept planning, shoddy workmanship, and poor management, and they wanted India to pay for most of those mistakes. The Indians were not amused, and played hard ball, making much of the fact that India was now the biggest customer for Russian military exports. Russia was also aware that India was increasingly turning to more expensive (and more capable) Western arms suppliers.
The original price for the refurbishment of the of the Gorshkov was $1.5 billion. Building a Gorshkov type carrier today would cost about $4 billion, and take eight years. Two years ago, the Russians admitted there were problems, and demanded another half billion dollars to make it all right. India went along with that. But last year, the Russians raised the price again, and now wanted $3.5 billion for the job, and an additional four years. The Indians refused to pay. The Russians were willing to admit to mistakes and put things right, for a price. For example, the boss of Sevmash naval shipyard, when the Gorshkov deal was negotiated, was fired and under criminal investigation, on suspicion of financial mismanagement.
Naturally, the Indians were not happy with all this, and at first insisted that the Russian government (which owns many of the entities involved) make good on the original deal. India sent its own team of technical experts to Russia, and their report apparently confirmed what the Russians reported, about shipyard officials low-balling the cost of the work needed. This is a common tactic for firms building weapons for their own country. It gets more complicated when you try to pull that sort of thing on a foreign customer. The Russian government initially offered to cover some of the overrun cost. But then they insisted that India cover most of it, or lose the ship entirely. Nothing was said about whether or not the Indians would get any of their money refunded. As Indian anger rose, the Russians began to realize that they would have to eat most of the additional mistakes, or risk losing billions in future sales.
The Admiral Gorshkov entered service in 1987, but was inactivated in 1996 because it was too expensive to operate on a post Cold War budget. This attracted the attention of India, which was looking for a way to expand their carrier aviation capabilities. India is currently building another carrier, from scratch, but that 40,000 ton vessel won't be ready until 2015. India's sole current aircraft carrier, the 29,000 ton INS Viraat, just emerged from 18 months in a shipyard getting maintenance and upgrades, which left India with no carrier capability. This was to have been avoided by the timely arrival (last year) of the refurbished Russian carrier. If that had happened, the INS Viraat would have been retired in 2012, after 53 years service (for Britain and India). But now the INS Viraat will get its engine and hull refurbished, and its electronics upgraded, and possibly serve for another decade.
Under the terms of the new deal, the INS Vikramaditya will be ready for sea trials by the end of 2012. Thus by 2015, India will have two large carriers in operation, and some bitter memories of their experience with the Russians over the Gorshkov.
Naval Air: Never Trust A Used Carrier Salesman
-------------------------------------------------------------
Russia is a strong ally of India but it should not take Indian military orders for granted. As the article clearly points out, India is gradually turning towards Western nations for military cooperation and if the Russians continue with this unprofessional behavior, they might loose their biggest military customer.
That said, India would have spent $4 billion to build a 40,000 ton aircraft carrier. But for $3.5 billion, the Indians are getting completely refitted aircraft carrier from the Russians along with the deadly MiG-29Ks. It is still a good deal and India will still go along with it.
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