Indian Acquisition of the Gorshkov

[abdulrafi]

Several controversies and five years after India announced that a Russian sea-based aircraft carrier, Admiral Gorshkov, will be added to the Naval fleet, Defence Minister AK Antony today said: “We have not signed any contract (with the Russians) only negotiations are going on.” A final decision on the contract will be taken after we verify everything including the report of the Comptroller and Auditor General (CAG) of India. Nothing has been decided the minister said as he attempted to put a lid on the controversy which started last week when the CAG “ripped through” the ministry of defence for paying some Rs 10,000 crore more than what was due for the aircraft carrier.Antony’s statement was made to a supplementary question raised by T Shiva of Tamil Nadu in which he also admitted, “I agree Russia has asked for a substantially huge amount.” The CAG report had said that "second-hand" carrier will be 60 per cent costlier than a new one and there is the risk of further delay in its delivery.

In his reply Antony put forward something which may have missed the audit books of the CAG: “Very few countries manufacture such carriers and as per the international relations prevailing in 2004, no country other than Russia was ready to give us a warship of this kind.” Russia agreed to gift the carrier to us. (India had to pay for the re-fit and the fighter jets that would be on the deck of the warship) Russia failed to calculate the cost of the re-fit.In a way Antony may be right the NATO countries have the capability to make such warships and they were not keen to arm India

 

[sudhir007]

Several controversies and five years after India announced that a Russian sea-based aircraft carrier, Admiral Gorshkov, will be added to the Naval fleet, Defence Minister AK Antony today said: “We have not signed any contract (with the Russians) only negotiations are going on.” A final decision on the contract will be taken after we verify everything including the report of the Comptroller and Auditor General (CAG) of India. Nothing has been decided the minister said as he attempted to put a lid on the controversy which started last week when the CAG “ripped through” the ministry of defence for paying some Rs 10,000 crore more than what was due for the aircraft carrier.Antony’s statement was made to a supplementary question raised by T Shiva of Tamil Nadu in which he also admitted, “I agree Russia has asked for a substantially huge amount.” The CAG report had said that "second-hand" carrier will be 60 per cent costlier than a new one and there is the risk of further delay in its delivery.

In his reply Antony put forward something which may have missed the audit books of the CAG: “Very few countries manufacture such carriers and as per the international relations prevailing in 2004, no country other than Russia was ready to give us a warship of this kind.” Russia agreed to gift the carrier to us. (India had to pay for the re-fit and the fighter jets that would be on the deck of the warship) Russia failed to calculate the cost of the re-fit.In a way Antony may be right the NATO countries have the capability to make such warships and they were not keen to arm India

It is alreay posted Gorshkov thread. Please does not make useless thread see before posting

 

[ouiouiouiouiouioui]

India will become fourth country in the world to indigenously build its own aircraft carrier of 40,000 tonne plus. Thus India will join the elite club

Defence Minister A K Antony will lay the keel for country's first indigenous aircraft carrier or air defence ship (ADS) at the Cochin Shipyard's construction dock in Kerala on Feb 28, marking the launch of the first phase of building the 40,000 tonne aircraft carrier.

India becomes fourth country after naval powers of the world like US, Russia, and France to build a carrier with a 40,000 tonne displacement. The United Kingdom has also built its own aircraft carrier, but not such a huge size.

The project codenamed P-71 will initially cost Rs 3,260 crore, but the amount would increase with the progress of the project and as per requirements.

The aircraft carrier will be in the waters by October 2010, as per the phase I contract signed by its manufacturer Cochin Shipyard Ltd (CSL) with the Defence Ministry. The phase II of the contract will end with the delivery of the ship to the Navy by the end of 2014

 

[Gabbar]

Soviet warship turns into India's white elephant​

When Russia gave India a retired Soviet aircraft carrier five years ago, New Delhi was delighted -- little realising the vessel would turn into a costly white elephant.

Russia, India's longtime weapons supplier, said in 2004 it would give the country the 44,570-tonne "Admiral Gorshkov" as a gift, provided Delhi paid a Russian shipyard 974 million dollars to refurbish the carrier.

Since then, the price has skyrocketed for fixing up the 27-year-old ship, which was decommissioned after the collapse of the Soviet Union.

In 2007, Russia demanded 850 million dollars more, citing cost escalations. Then, six months ago, Russia startled India with another demand -- this time for 2.9 billion dollars.

It also pushed back the ship's delivery by four years to 2012 -- a year after India must mothball its last remaining aircraft carrier, the British-origin INS Viraat.

Now India's national auditor has waded into the row, saying the navy could have paid less for a new carrier.

"At best, the Indian navy would be acquiring, belatedly, a second-hand ship with a limited lifespan by paying significantly more than what it would have paid for a new ship," it said in its military spending report.

The Russian price hikes have sparked outrage, forcing Defence Minister AK Antony to assure parliament this week that fresh negotiations were once again under way.

"At present, the price escalation is in the negotiation stage and nothing has been finalised," Antony said, but he conceded India was paying "a substantially huge price" for the Admiral's refit.

New Delhi has already paid hundreds of millions of dollars in advance to Russia's state-run Sevmash shipyard.

"It's no doubt giving India a severe headache but we're stuck with it because if we pull out now, we don't get back a penny," said retired general VN Sharma, a former chief of India's million-plus army.

India must also dig deeper into its pocket for tens of millions of dollars extra to equip the docked Admiral Gorshkov with Sukhoi-30 warjets and Russian missiles, officials say.

Russia's state-run defence export agency Rosoboronexport, which is handling the deal, has rejected suggestions that it is short-changing India.

The Press Trust of India quoted spokesman Vyacheslav Davidenko "Every step in the process of the refit of the aircraft carrier is monitored by the Indian navy's technical team and they have never raised objections," as saying.

The shipyard refitting the vessel has insisted that the cost escalations are due to Indian demands for features not included in the original contract.

Minister Antony says New Delhi, which is trying to build an aircraft carrier of its own, was forced to turn to Russia, as no other country would give India a tactical vessel of such a size.

Russia, which accounts for 70 percent of India's military hardware, has up to nine billion dollars worth of defence orders from New Delhi in the pipeline.

General Sharma said he believes the Russians "grossly miscalculated when writing up this contract in 2004".

But retired rear admiral Raja Menon, who was associated with the project, said he believes Russia is seeking to get as much out of India as it can.

He said Moscow is in the habit of arm-twisting its traditional weapons buyers.

"Russia's track record is very poor in this regard and this time the nation has to take a call on this," he said.

"In other contracts too they had escalated costs and thought they could get away with it again," Menon said.

 

[holysaturn]

Russian aircraft carrier not overpriced: Indian Navy chief

2009-07-30 17:30:00



Indian Navy Thursday contested an audit report on the exorbitant pricing and low capability of a Russian aircraft carrier it has purchased, saying that the deal had been concluded in all 'seriousness'.

'You tell me, if one can get me an aircraft carrier for less than $2 billion I will sign a cheque right here,' Indian Navy chief Admiral Sureesh Mehta retorted when asked to comment on a report of the Comptroller and Auditor General (CAG) report questioning the purchase of the Admiral Gorshkov.


The original deal, signed in 2004, was for India to pay $1.5 billion for the vessel, mothballed since a devastating fire in 1995. Of this, $948 million was to be spent on refitting the 45,000 tonne vessel and the balance on the MiG-29 combat jets and Kamov anti-submarine warfare helicopters that would be deployed on the ship.


Since 2007, however, Russia has steadily been asking for more money, saying the extent of repairs to the vessel had been grossly underestimated. Various reports say Russia is now asking for between $2.2 billion and $2.9 billion.


Protracted negotiations, even at the level of the Indian and Russian defence ministers have so far failed to resolve the impasse.


As for the CAG's adverse comments on the low capability of the carrier, Mehta said: 'I can assure you that there is nothing of this sort. The navy has looked at this ship for long. Since the 1990s we have been looking at it....The deal has been done in extreme seriousness.'


The issue had figured in parliament Wednesday, with Defence Minister A.K. Antony saying that a fresh contract for the carrier would be signed after verifying the CAG's findings.


'Russia has demanded a substantial increase. The negotiations on this so far have been inconclusive. Before we take a final decision, we will verify everything (said against the deal), including the report of the CAG,' Antony had said during question hour in the Rajya Sabha.


According to the CAG report, the objective of inducting the Gorshkov in time to fill the gap's in the navy's capabilities had not been achieved due to the delay in the delivery of the warship.


Originally scheduled to be delivered in 2008, this has now been pushed back to 2012.


By the time the aircraft carrier was delivered, the report said, it was not clear how the navy would be able to provide an 'adequate' battle group to the vessel.


According to the CAG's estimates, the indigenous design and construction of a new carrier would cost $1.145 billion. It would take two years to design, eight years to construct and would have a lifespan of 40 years. Against this, the Gorshkov would have an operational span of only 20 years.

Russian aircraft carrier not overpriced: Indian Navy chief

 

[fatman17]

Soviet warship turns into India’s white elephant

NEW DELHI: When Russia gave India a retired Soviet aircraft carrier five years ago, New Delhi was delighted – little realising the vessel would turn into a costly white elephant. Russia, India’s longtime weapons supplier, said in 2004 it would give the country the 44,570-tonne “Admiral Gorshkov” as a gift, provided Delhi paid a Russian shipyard 974 million dollars to refurbish the carrier.

Since then, the price has skyrocketed for fixing up the 27-year-old ship, which was decommissioned after the collapse of the Soviet Union. In 2007, Russia demanded 850 million dollars more, citing cost escalations. Then, six months ago, Russia startled India with another demand – this time for 2.9 billion dollars.

It also pushed back the ship’s delivery by four years to 2012 – a year after India must mothball its last remaining aircraft carrier, the British-origin INS Viraat. Now India’s national auditor has waded into the row, saying the navy could have paid less for a new carrier.

“At best, the Indian navy would be acquiring, belatedly, a second-hand ship with a limited lifespan by paying significantly more than what it would have paid for a new ship,” it said in its military spending report.

The Russian price hikes have sparked outrage, forcing India’s Defence Minister AK Antony to assure parliament this week that fresh negotiations were once again under way. “At present, the price escalation is in the negotiation stage and nothing has been finalised,” Antony said, but he conceded India was paying “a substantially huge price” for the Admiral’s refit.

New Delhi has already paid hundreds of millions of dollars in advance to Russia’s state-run Sevmash shipyard. “It’s no doubt giving India a severe headache but we’re stuck with it because if we pull out now, we don’t get back a penny,” said retired general VN Sharma, a former chief of India’s million-plus army. India must also dig deeper into its pocket for tens of millions of dollars extra to equip the docked Admiral Gorshkov with Sukhoi-30 warjets and Russian missiles, officials say. Russia’s state-run defence export agency Rosoboronexport, which is handling the deal, has rejected suggestions that it is short-changing India.

“Every step in the process of the refit of the aircraft carrier is monitored by the Indian navy’s technical team and they have never raised objections,” spokesman Vyacheslav Davidenko was quoted as saying by the Press Trust of India. The shipyard refitting the vessel has insisted that the cost escalations are due to Indian demands for features not included in the original contract.

Antony says New Delhi, which is trying to build an aircraft carrier of its own, was forced to turn to Russia as no other country would give India a tactical vessel of such a size. Russia, which accounts for 70 percent of India’s military hardware, has up to nine billion dollars worth of defence orders from New Delhi in the pipeline. General Sharma said he believes the Russians “grossly miscalculated when writing up this contract in 2004”. But retired rear admiral Raja Menon, who was associated with the project, said he believes Russia is seeking to get as much out of India as it can. He said Moscow is in the habit of arm-twisting its traditional weapons buyers.

afp

 

[Haanzo]

Soviet warship turns into India’s white elephant

NEW DELHI: When Russia gave India a retired Soviet aircraft carrier five years ago, New Delhi was delighted – little realising the vessel would turn into a costly white elephant. Russia, India’s longtime weapons supplier, said in 2004 it would give the country the 44,570-tonne “Admiral Gorshkov” as a gift, provided Delhi paid a Russian shipyard 974 million dollars to refurbish the carrier.

Since then, the price has skyrocketed for fixing up the 27-year-old ship, which was decommissioned after the collapse of the Soviet Union. In 2007, Russia demanded 850 million dollars more, citing cost escalations. Then, six months ago, Russia startled India with another demand – this time for 2.9 billion dollars.

It also pushed back the ship’s delivery by four years to 2012 – a year after India must mothball its last remaining aircraft carrier, the British-origin INS Viraat. Now India’s national auditor has waded into the row, saying the navy could have paid less for a new carrier.

“At best, the Indian navy would be acquiring, belatedly, a second-hand ship with a limited lifespan by paying significantly more than what it would have paid for a new ship,” it said in its military spending report.

The Russian price hikes have sparked outrage, forcing India’s Defence Minister AK Antony to assure parliament this week that fresh negotiations were once again under way. “At present, the price escalation is in the negotiation stage and nothing has been finalised,” Antony said, but he conceded India was paying “a substantially huge price” for the Admiral’s refit.

New Delhi has already paid hundreds of millions of dollars in advance to Russia’s state-run Sevmash shipyard. “It’s no doubt giving India a severe headache but we’re stuck with it because if we pull out now, we don’t get back a penny,” said retired general VN Sharma, a former chief of India’s million-plus army. India must also dig deeper into its pocket for tens of millions of dollars extra to equip the docked Admiral Gorshkov with Sukhoi-30 warjets and Russian missiles, officials say. Russia’s state-run defence export agency Rosoboronexport, which is handling the deal, has rejected suggestions that it is short-changing India.

“Every step in the process of the refit of the aircraft carrier is monitored by the Indian navy’s technical team and they have never raised objections,” spokesman Vyacheslav Davidenko was quoted as saying by the Press Trust of India. The shipyard refitting the vessel has insisted that the cost escalations are due to Indian demands for features not included in the original contract.

Antony says New Delhi, which is trying to build an aircraft carrier of its own, was forced to turn to Russia as no other country would give India a tactical vessel of such a size. Russia, which accounts for 70 percent of India’s military hardware, has up to nine billion dollars worth of defence orders from New Delhi in the pipeline. General Sharma said he believes the Russians “grossly miscalculated when writing up this contract in 2004”. But retired rear admiral Raja Menon, who was associated with the project, said he believes Russia is seeking to get as much out of India as it can. He said Moscow is in the habit of arm-twisting its traditional weapons buyers.

afp

how many threads do you guys wanna open on the same newsreport

 

[Penguin]

'NEW DELHI: When Russia gave India a retired Soviet aircraft carrier five years ago, New Delhi was delighted – little realising the vessel would turn into a costly white elephant. Russia, India’s longtime weapons supplier, said in 2004 it would give the country the 44,570-tonne “Admiral Gorshkov” as a gift, provided Delhi paid a Russian shipyard 974 million dollars to refurbish the carrier."
There is no such thing a a free lunch.

"It also pushed back the ship’s delivery by four years to 2012 – a year after India must mothball its last remaining aircraft carrier, the British-origin INS Viraat. Now India’s national auditor has waded into the row, saying the navy could have paid less for a new carrier.“At best, the Indian navy would be acquiring, belatedly, a second-hand ship with a limited lifespan by paying significantly more than what it would have paid for a new ship,” it said in its military spending report."
Couldawouldashoulda. There is no way India could have built a new ship itself by this date. And which country would have supplied India with a similarly equiped new ship if so asked?

"The Russian price hikes have sparked outrage, forcing India’s Defence Minister AK Antony to assure parliament this week that fresh negotiations were once again under way. “At present, the price escalation is in the negotiation stage and nothing has been finalised,” Antony said, but he conceded India was paying “a substantially huge price” for the Admiral’s refit."
People should get it through their heads it is not some mid-life refit of a well maintained ship. In 1994, Gorshkov suffered a boiler room explosion and was docked for a year of repairs before she returned to service in 1995. She was finally withdrawn in 1996 and offered for sale (because of def funding shortage and general economic malaise)) . Russia agreed to sell the Admiral Gorshkov to India on January 20, 2004: count on 8 years of total neglect pierside (on top of whatever leftover damage there was from the earlier mishap). It would take a lot of money to put her back to working order 'as is', leave alone CONVERTING her from a STOVL carrier to a STOBAR carrier (i.e. adding a lot of structure like a new bow and sky-jump, enlarging the angled deck, adding a causeway on the opposite side)

"New Delhi has already paid hundreds of millions of dollars in advance to Russia’s state-run Sevmash shipyard. “It’s no doubt giving India a severe headache but we’re stuck with it because if we pull out now, we don’t get back a penny,” said retired general VN Sharma, a former chief of India’s million-plus army. "
Interesting, how a former ARMY chief is commenting on a NAVY purchase. Interservice rivalry? Wonder what retired IN admirals would have to say about, oh, lets say, tank development or howitzer purchases by the army.

"India must also dig deeper into its pocket for tens of millions of dollars extra to equip the docked Admiral Gorshkov with Sukhoi-30 warjets and Russian missiles, officials say."
These official apparently have poor knowledge of the project: Gorshkov as Vikramaditya is to fly a Mig-29 variant ' (the significantly bigger carrier Kuznetsov can barely handle the carrier-born SU-27 varient!).

"Antony says New Delhi, which is trying to build an aircraft carrier of its own, was forced to turn to Russia as no other country would give India a tactical vessel of such a size."
- Not 'trying to build' but "building".
- Brazil purchased the used French carrier Foch in 2000. After that, no other country had a used carrier vessel available except the US and they have never sold any supercarrier (used or new) to anyone.

"Russia is seeking to get as much out of India as it can. He said Moscow is in the habit of arm-twisting its traditional weapons buyers."
And there's the rub!

 

[aimarraul]

Russia's delay of stealth frigates mirror problems with Gorshkov deal
Yantar's so-called financial problem and exchange rate loss seems an attempt to wrest a higher price from the Indian government just as in the case of Admiral Gorshkov, as exchange rate fluctuations are always factored in international contracts between two countries or overseas companies, says Ravi Kunder

After having delayed the delivery of the Indian aircraft carrier INS Vikramaditya (formerly Admiral Gorshkov) by four years and doubled its price, Russia may delay the delivery of three stealth frigates to the Indian Navy as it says that it has lost RUR500 million due to exchange rate fluctuations. It is now seeking a $60-million loan to complete the construction of the frigates.

Yantar, based in the port city of Kaliningrad on the Baltic Sea also is negotiating a $60-million loan with the Russian national development bank Vnesheconombank (VEB), to complete the construction of three stealth frigates for the Indian Navy. (See: Russian shipyard building Indian frigates runs out of funds)

The state-owned Yantar shipbuilding factory's director general Igor Orlov said this week that when the contract was signed in 2006 to build three Project 1135.6 Krivak IV-class guided missile frigates for the Indian Navy, the exchange rate for the rouble was 28.2 roubles for a $1, but since then, it has fallen to 23.5 roubles resulting in the shipyard losing approximately RUR500 million. Today, however the exchange rate is 31 roubles for $1.

The $60-million loan is over and above the $100 million it had taken recently from the VEB to tide over financial constraints, Russian newswire RIA Novosti said quoting Yantar's director general Igor Orlov.

Yantar's claims of financial problems are somewhat hard to digest since in the first quarter of 2009, it posted a net profit RUR106.390 million (Rs161 million), up from the RUR119.322-million loss in the same period in 2008, according to the company's first quarter result.

In the first quarter of 2009, Yantar's turnover was RUR8.1 billion compared to RUR2.9 billion in the first quarter of 2008, and earnings increased almost 4.4 times to RUR33.996 million.

The company also revealed that its order books were full until 2012.

At a time when most companies have retrenched employees to cut costs during the global financial crisis, Yantar has actually hired more workers since the beginning of this year - in January ithired 100 people and added 62 in the first week of February, with plans to hire another 500.

On 5 August 2009, Orlov announced that the shipyard would be upgraded at a cost of $580 million and the upgrade project would be done in collaboration with Germany's IMG-group.
The Yantar shipbuilding factory is Russia's largest shipyard and since its inception in 1945, it has built 153 military ships and about 500 civillian ones .

The shipyard, escaped bankruptcy on two occasions, once in 2004 and again in 2006.

In 2006, based on the impending $1.6-billion order for the three Indian stealth frigates, Yantar was able to renegotiate its $1.5-million debt with Interregional Investment Bank and Vneshtorgbank, thus avoiding bankruptcy.

It well may be that this so-called financial problem and exchange rate loss, is an attempt to wrest a higher price for from the Indian government just as in the case of Admiral Gorshkov.

This is especially so since exchange rate fluctuations are always factored in in international contracts between two countries or overseas companies.

The Financial Express had reported on 12 December 2007, ''The defence establishment is getting worried at reports emanating from Russia about problems dogging its Rs5,514-crore (around $1.4-billion) project for construction of three more Talwar-class 'stealth' frigates at Yantar shipyard in Kaliningrad. There is a fear that Russia may demand more money for the construction of the three frigates, apart from pushing back their delivery dates.''

It added, ''Although Russia is yet to officially communicate any demand for more money in the frigates' project, Russian officials are publicly holding that it will take ''a minimum of $100 million more'' to construct the three Indian warships at Yantar shipyard.''

So far, Russia has not asked for more money, but saying that it has lost $500 million on the order due to currency fluctuations is a sure sign of what can be expected in the coming months.

Although St. Petersburg-based Severnaya Verf yard was in the race to build the stealth frigates for the Indian Navy, the order was bagged by Yantar shipyard. The order was a follow-up order to the three Krivak Class, Project 1135.6 stealth frigates delivered to India in 2004 built by the Baltisky shipyard. These frigates were delivered two years behind schedule.

In October, alarmed at the news of infrastructure and financial problems at Yantar, India deputed a team of observers headed by deputy chief of the naval staff, Vice Adm. Raman P Suthan to oversee the project's progress.

As late as last month, Orlov had said on the sidelines of the 4th International Maritime Defence Show in St. Petersburg that Russia would deliver three stealth frigates worth $1.6 billion to the Indian Navy in line with the "contract deadline" of 2012. (See: New batch of IN stealth frigates to be delivered on-time: Russia)

"The contract's deadline is 2012. We are not expecting any delays at this point," said Orlov, "Russia will fulfill its obligations on schedule to supply three Project 1135.6 frigates to India by 2012,'' he said.

"The first ship will be floated out this year, the second, probably, in spring 2010, and the third - a bit later," Orlov said.

A RIA Novosti report also quoted him as saying that the Indian government had provided 'sufficient and timely' project financing.

According to a recent analysis titled 'BMF RF ''Naval Military Fleet of the Russian Federation] on Foreign Warship'', published by the authoritative Moscow-based weekly - the Independent Military Review says that the Russian Navy is currently on the verge of 'irreversible collapse.'

It said that the main cause for the 'collapse' is the state of the Russian shipbuilding industry, which is "incapable of producing warships in either the quantity or at the level of quality that their navy customer requires" for the future.

 

[aimarraul]

it's funny indian always claim russia is your best friend....look like russia cherish this friendship very much......

 

[EjazR]

I dont think there are many Indians who would consider Russia "best friend".

Even during the USSR times, Indira Gandhi held onto Non Alignment. Its more to do with strategic partners than friends and thats the reality. Even in the case of Pakistan-China relationship

 

[xebex]

it's funny indian always claim russia is your best friend....look like russia cherish this friendship very much......

Indians consider Russia as an ally same with US. its funny that u got the wrong word.

Like EjazR said, "strategic partership" is the best way to put it.

 

[Mig-29]

it's funny indian always claim russia is your best friend....look like russia cherish this friendship very much......

There is nothing called best friend and worst friend in international politics , its all about strategic partnership ,can you name any other country in the world who has access to high tech defense application from both USA and Russia.

 

[jeet]

it's funny indian always claim russia is your best friend....look like russia cherish this friendship very much......

Top level diplomats and officer dont think the way you think..
they take decision with more wisdom and patience....
We all know russian defence industry is suffering with financial crunch..(even labor crunch)..
Delaying few thing wont make India and Russia enemies...

I know u are seaching some happines somewhere.. and u got it in this article.. thats why jumping right??? Continue!!!
I know u live in a communist country. everything is banned right... everything is filtered... Internet,, Media,, right of speech,, right to vote. .. You people dont even have the right to take small small decisions.. (so i can understand your frustration) .. In this forum , atleast u are getting some happiness by laughing at even small small problems which are faced by India;;;
You continue..I am happy if you are happy!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[aimarraul]

Top level diplomats and officer dont think the way you think..
they take decision with more wisdom and patience....
We all know russian defence industry is suffering with financial crunch..(even labor crunch)..
Delaying few thing wont make India and Russia enemies...

I know u are seaching some happines somewhere.. and u got it in this article.. thats why jumping right??? Continue!!!
I know u live in a communist country. everything is banned right... everything is filtered... Internet,, Media,, right of speech,, right to vote. .. You people dont even have the right to take small small decisions.. (so i can understand your frustration) .. In this forum , atleast u are getting some happiness by laughing at even small small problems which are faced by India;;;
You continue..I am happy if you are happy!!!!!!!!!!!!

hi ,i am from wuhan like your imaginary" chinese girlfriend"