India wants second line of fighter jets: Report

[dadeechi]

Short answer Make In India of F-16 does not automatically means inducted by IAF period.

HAL chief statement -- F-16 assembly line in India not attractive.

TATA can make deal with the LM to build F-16 with full authority of the LM in India for the international Market ?? Which market ?? only you/ or your source can tell ??

Does your source is the Chaiwalla source near HAL Banglore ??

Of course HAL would not like F-16s as they are not tying up with them. The fact of the matter is that MOD has officially neither confirmed nor denied the possibility of procuring F-16s. The official stance is that the offer was made and is under review.

 

[zebra7]

Of course HAL would not like F-16s as they are not tying up with them. The fact of the matter is that MOD has officially neither confirmed nor denied the possibility of procuring F-16s. The official stance is that the offer was made and is under review.

http://www.defencenews.in/article/I...s-JF-17-and-shows-interest-in-Indias-LCA-4539

 

[dadeechi]

Firstly let me punch hole in your so called story, which is your story and no other claiming this.

How you come with figure 200? You have proof or you also firing blank shots in air? Do you know how many exercises IAF do to check the requirements?

You think MMRCA 126 or 189 figure coming from heaven? Why not 130 or 190?

And on F-16, any requirement coming from IAF or MoD? Or this requirement coming from your laptop.

Please , don't quote me again with your idiocies.

1) 200+ is requirement of the seller for India to obtain ToT in other areas like jet engine assembly in India.

2) The evaluations for all the fighters were already carried out as part of MMRCA. The same question can also be asked how RAFALE is being procured as it is now a government to government to contract and not under original MMRCA RFP which has been cancelled

3) As I have already said 126+ RAFALEs are coming to India. That satisfies the IAF pet project and theme "There is no plan B" to RAFALEs". For all other projects like FGFA, Tejas MK1A and F-16s it is MOD pushing these projects to take care of other parties and requirements as listed below.

RAFALEs - IAF, France and an Indian private player

Tejas MK1A - ADA & HAL

FGFA - Russia and HAL

F-16s - US and an Indian private player

 

[C130]

imagine what could have been if India had gone with building Mirage 2000-5 instead of focusing on LCA Tejas.

you got burnt on the Mirage 2000 upgrade by the French and now the Rafale deal hasn't gone as smoothly as it should have and LCA Tejas isn't as capable as the Mirage-2000 or F-16 (both proven in combat)


only if India could go back 15 years in the past.

 

[dadeechi]

http://www.defencenews.in/article/I...s-JF-17-and-shows-interest-in-Indias-LCA-4539

Sorry! I did not understand what you are trying to say.

 

[zebra7]

imagine what could have been if India had gone with building Mirage 2000-5 instead of focusing on LCA Tejas.

you got burnt on the Mirage 2000 upgrade by the French and now the Rafale deal hasn't gone as smoothly as it should have and LCA Tejas isn't as capable as the Mirage-2000 or F-16 (both proven in combat)


only if India could go back 15 years in the past.

Only if you don't have an idea what is MLU, and what is deep upgradation program.

Sorry! I did not understand what you are trying to say.

Wind is blowing in different direction.

 

[dadeechi]

imagine what could have been if India had gone with building Mirage 2000-5 instead of focusing on LCA Tejas.

you got burnt on the Mirage 2000 upgrade by the French and now the Rafale deal hasn't gone as smoothly as it should have and LCA Tejas isn't as capable as the Mirage-2000 or F-16 (both proven in combat)


only if India could go back 15 years in the past.

True but it is easy to be wise in hindsight.

 

[zebra7]

1) 200+ is requirement of the seller for India to obtain ToT in other areas like jet engine assembly in India.

2) The evaluations for all the fighters were already carried out as part of MMRCA. The same question can also be asked how RAFALE is being procured as it is now a government to government to contract and not under original MMRCA RFP which has been cancelled

3) As I have already said 126+ RAFALEs are coming to India. That satisfies the IAF pet project and theme "There is no plan B" to RAFALEs". For all other projects like FGFA, Tejas MK1A and F-16s it is MOD pushing these projects to take care of other parties and requirements as listed below.

RAFALEs - IAF, France and an Indian private player

Tejas MK1A - ADA & HAL

FGFA - Russia and HAL

F-16s - US and an Indian private player

Bhaiya dadeechi Make in India F-16 does not automatically means F-16 in IAF. IS it so difficult to understand ?

 

[C130]

Only if you don't have an idea what is MLU, and what is deep upgradation program.



Wind is blowing in different direction.

I understand what a MLU is and it's costly and worth it, but I feel India had a good chance of building brand spanking new Mirage-2000 10 years ago. now you are 10 squadrons short of ideal to handle a two front war.

 

[zebra7]

I understand what a MLU is and it's costly and worth it, but I feel India had a good chance of building brand spanking new Mirage-2000 10 years ago. now you are 10 squadrons short of ideal to handle a two front war.

The original plan was itself goes to when India, first inducted Mirage 2000 H and original plan was to buy 50 birds offshelf in flyaway condition, and 200 jets to be build in India by HAL. But the plan have to be shelved due to economical constrain when India was almost bankrupted. Rafale if the offset of the Mirage 2000, and IAF love French birds.

 

[dadeechi]

Wind is blowing in different direction.

If not for MOD's push LCA Tejas MK1A would have never seen the light.

Without MOD's push the chances of Tejas being inducted by foreign countries was greater than IAF inducting them.

In spite of their love for RAFALEs, IAF would any day pick F-16s or Gripens instead of Tejas, if provided with an option. MOD did not give them the option. Their RAFALE request has been met and they would just have to go with MOD in other cases.

 

[Gen Padmanabhan]

imagine what could have been if India had gone with building Mirage 2000-5 instead of focusing on LCA Tejas.

you got burnt on the Mirage 2000 upgrade by the French and now the Rafale deal hasn't gone as smoothly as it should have and LCA Tejas isn't as capable as the Mirage-2000 or F-16 (both proven in combat)


only if India could go back 15 years in the past.

That is sad situation indeed. And I explain later why that happen.

Why India bought so many jets in 80s MiG-29, MiG-23, MiG-27, M2000. And fuked the logistics.

Also when French offered for joint development of LCA as advance version of M2000.

 

[dadeechi]

Bhaiya dadeechi Make in India F-16 does not automatically means F-16 in IAF. IS it so difficult to understand ?

Do you really believe that LM & Indian private player would make all those investments for exporting to other countries when most of the potentials customers of F-16s have already procured them and some are in the process of phasing out them and replacing them with the F-35s?

India is the biggest defence customer who has a need and has not inducted F-16s yet. Without any doubt F-16s MII is primarily for India.

 

[Taygibay]

Good analysis but expectations from Tejas is much more, IAF is pushing for it to be mini Rafale with reduced range and payload. If CAS was the sole requirement and then we could have been done with Tejas much earlier without constant shifting of goal-posts.

Hum! It won't be a mini-Rafale and bright peeps know it by now!
If it can just finish school and get a job, let's accept that. Not all
kids will become doctors?

So find a role for it within actual and real parameters it can fit now.
And of course make it better ASAP. But don't try to change it.

If you keep moving the goal posts, of course it can't score?

Something like that ... & good day mate, Tay.

 

[Spectre]

Hum! It won't be a mini-Rafale and bright peeps know it by now!
If it can just finish school and get a job, let's accept that. Not all
kids will become doctors?

So find a role for it within actual and real parameters it can fit now.
And of course make it better ASAP. But don't try to change it.

If you keep moving the goal posts, of course it can't score?

Something like that ... & good day mate, Tay.

I couldn't agree more but it is how it is. IN and ISRO with their incremental developmental philosophy have been more successful then IA and IAF which aim for the moon.

You will find the same story repeated through out the Indian defence sector - always the bridesmaid and never the bride! Lot of it has to do with lucrative kickbacks specially in relation to Russian and Israeli goods being peddled. These incentives result in unrealistic certification parameters which ensures domestic prototypes are often still born.

I have always held French defence sector as a model to emulate, if you look closely there are lot of foundational similarities but you guys have capitalized on most of the opportunities and we have missed all most all of them. Honestly how do you guys do it?

US and Chinese MIC are full of waste and inefficiencies but the sheer volume of resources at command get's the job done.

British have been co-opted by Americans

Israelis get to cherry the best from Americans and rest they make do with their exceptional innovation.

Germany, Italy and Scandinavians though good are limited to pockets of specialisation.

Russians hang on to their legacy and strong base created during soviet era but are loosing relevance fast.